(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

4 years ago



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  • 3,821 posts
  • 422 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Xerico
  • Topic is favorited by 51 Pinsiders

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There are 3821 posts in this topic. You are on page 37 of 77.
#1801 4 years ago
Quoted from Gryszzz:

10 minutes of worldwide silence ?

Actually, the time was closer to 15 min

#1803 4 years ago

That one takes the cake!

#1804 4 years ago
Quoted from Underspin:

Less drama. More this:

I'd prefer the camera to be placed on the other side of the bed.

#1805 4 years ago

IMG_3375.JPG
#1806 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

The first viewing you're focusing on the plot, which is OK, but nothing amazing. Subsequent viewings you realize that the dialogue is fucking amazing.

Are you talking about the movie or this thread?

-1
#1807 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

Well, not to get all mushy here, but I also love The States and American people. Went there a couple of times and it's a wonderful country with lots to see and people are much more talkative than over here. I also LOVE muscle cars (own a Corvette and a '67 Caprice as you can se on my Avatar). [Mushy mode off]</blockquote
Those aren't muscle cars. Did you buy them with TBL deposits?

I am sorry for may lack of bullet points. Oh wait I have some
1. Has anyone tried the Kalaha alternatives? They taste terrible.
2. These DP guys are rockstars, wow.
3. Insert move quote here
4. Insert something obvious and already said many times before here
I forgot I was using bullet points now and will repeat the obvious.
Insert cartoon here.

Insert popcorn reference here.

#1808 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

TBL...What a fucking shit show.

image-234.jpg
Slow the fuck down. I can't keep up. Dude.

#1809 4 years ago

images-271.jpg

Here you go pre-owners...a little consolation prize:

13860428.jpg

18
#1810 4 years ago

It's funny that the Blu-Ray can have Walter with a gun, but the pinball can't.

#1811 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It's funny that the Blu-Ray can have Walter with a gun, but the pinball can't.

Yea! WTF?

#1812 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

I'm losing intrest in this topic but...
So you're supposing he made a mess of DP USA and potentially created an IRS issue and they STILL left him holding the purse strings to DP USA deposits? Surely you can see how flawed that logic is and if true, only further demonstrates that any perceived misdeeds wasn't mutually exclusive to Phil's actions. I don't see how this can be spun to anything other than piss poor corporate management on everyone's part. It only serves to justify people's concerns in DP's ability to be good stewards of the money sent to them regardless of the figurehead.

I can understand Phil's position. Financially he was the most on the hook if something went wrong. Meanwhile, his partners are making big withdrawals and playing fast and loose with the licensing.

But, at the same time, it was Phil's fault for putting himself in that position. At the bare minimum I would have insisted on setting up a LLC and putting the money there. No way in hell would I have put my own SSN on the line.

But it's pinball and sometimes we put love of the game over sense. I've run tournaments "for friends" and they screwed me over. Lesson learned. I just never did it in a way that could put me in lawsuit territory.

#1813 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It's funny that the Blu-Ray can have Walter with a gun, but the pinball can't.

Millions of dollars speaks volumes.

#1814 4 years ago

I tried catching up on this thread, but it was just too much. Has there been a response yet from DP? If so, can you direct me to the correct page.

17
#1815 4 years ago

333197.jpg
Oh, I am disappointed I thought TBL was The Bad Lieutenant. I read all of this, for nothing.

#1816 4 years ago
Quoted from Elvisinmypants:

Oh, I am disappointed I thought TBL was The Bad Lieutenant. I read all of this, for nothing.

H-hey, this is a private residence, man!

#1817 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It's funny that the Blu-Ray can have Walter with a gun, but the pinball can't.

Look carefully, images have their own fine print.

#1818 4 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

Here you go pre-owners...a little consolation prize:

now technically Phil said the gun couldn't be next to John Goodman. It's not on the blue ray cover. Julianne Moore is between John and the gun.

-13
#1819 4 years ago

Walter is going to pull a CHris Farley - sooner rather than later.

BTW, what a fucking hypocrite. That fucker is more than willing to cash the checks for being a gun-wielding lunatic on screen, but he's protective of his image in the supermarket? FUKC that fat turd!

#1820 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

That fucker is more than willing to cash the checks for being a gun-wielding lunatic on screen, but he's protective of his image in the supermarket?

Whatchu talkin bout H.I.?
screenshot-med-33[1].jpg

#1821 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

Walter is going to pull a CHris Farley - sooner rather than later.
BTW, what a fucking hypocrite. That fucker is more than willing to cash the checks for being a gun-wielding lunatic on screen, but he's protective of his image in the supermarket? FUKC that fat turd!

Really?

Times like this make it hard not to attack fellow pinsiders.

18
#1822 4 years ago

After reading this whole thread(and having bleeding eyeballs) I have decided to weigh in on this. The Seattle Pinball Museum is fully supportive of Dutch Pinball, The Big Lebowski pinball game and would like to here and now invite everyone to come play the game of the decade @ the Seattle Pinball Museum in 2015. We have full confidence the current issues will be overcome and the game will be produced. The SPM also wishes the best to Phil in his battle with the big C and prays for a full and complete recovery. That being said, fuck it, let go bowling.

#1823 4 years ago

after reading this whole thread, glad I did not pre order.

#1824 4 years ago
Quoted from Fishbeadtwo:

After reading this whole thread(and having bleeding eyeballs) I have decided to weigh in on this. The Seattle Pinball Museum is fully supportive of Dutch Pinball, The Big Lebowski pinball game and would like to here and now invite everyone to come play the game of the decade @ the Seattle Pinball Museum in 2015. We have full confidence the current issues will be overcome and the game will be produced. The SPM also wishes the best to Phil in his battle with the big C and prays for a full and complete recovery. That being said, fuck it, let go bowling.

I'll be there to help you unbox that bad boy!

#1825 4 years ago

White Russians and and Siberians will flow like water from the well my friend!

#1826 4 years ago
Quoted from Fishbeadtwo:

After reading this whole thread(and having bleeding eyeballs) I have decided to weigh in on this. The Seattle Pinball Museum is fully supportive of Dutch Pinball, The Big Lebowski pinball game and would like to here and now invite everyone to come play the game of the decade @ the Seattle Pinball Museum in 2015. We have full confidence the current issues will be overcome and the game will be produced. The SPM also wishes the best to Phil in his battle with the big C and prays for a full and complete recovery. That being said, fuck it, let go bowling.

Nice! So you're keeping your pre order? I would love to come play it myself. (And buy one too)

#1827 4 years ago

oh hell yes. its awesome and its a prototype. Just imagine what it will be when it's a finished and polished product! I'd pre order two like a friend did if I had more room in my my game room at home.

#1828 4 years ago
Quoted from Gryszzz:

Wolf I hope you come through IN sometime....I would love to toss back some cold ones with ya homie.
And Rod....thanks again for taking me and Violent Steve (violinsteve), up to TBL penthouse party. The dropper of liquid THC in my beer from pencil-thin mustache guy was mind blowing !! I owe you a White Russian (Kaluha-free, of course)....and Im sure all of this will work out.
Thanks dude.
Phil I wish you the very best this holiday season, get some rest man, this is just pinball.

Hey Gryszzz you got a smoke or two or maybe a whole fucking carton. I got a lotta money on the line and I ain't pulling out. -Jackie Treehorn ^

Phil- I'm sorry for all the stress this is causing you and your family. I hope you will be able to focus on your health and get well. Oh and do us all a huge favor and give Rod his damn money back. Thanks.

Jaap- I'm very sorry to hear that you lost your mother this week. My condolences

Barry- have another White Russian tonight/today

Barry and Jaap- dig deep, resolve, breathe and continue the great work on what will be one of the most storied,controversial and incredible pinball machines in the history of 3 flippers and a silverball.
Viva TBL and my preorders (wherever they may be).

21
#1829 4 years ago

Two episodes of relevance have just been uploaded.

#126 - What I thought after the NYC Modern Pinball Party and then speaking with Phil

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-126-a-very-complicated-case-maude-or-just-my-opinion-man_33980

#127 - Roger Sharpe joins us to talk TBL and licensing.

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-127-a-timely-evening-with-roger-sharpe_33981

www.coast2coastpinball.com

#1830 4 years ago

Thanks, Nate. I've been waiting for those to post.

Have fun with the new AMH, you lucky bastard!

#1831 4 years ago

Thanks Nate! Just finished #126 and am too tired to hit up #127. Thanks Nate for the effort and support for the boys from Holland. Go DP! The Big Lebowski will hit the streets of the world in 2015!

#1832 4 years ago

Big props to Nate and Roger for the podcasts!
Thank you for your time and passion to pinball gentlemen

#1833 4 years ago

Listened to #127.
I'm pretty happy right now. Of course I'm still in and my number should be moving on up nicely as well

-9
#1834 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Wow, a whole lot has transpired since I've been able to view the amazingness of this thread.
First thing, to clear it up for everybody, here is the difference with who is liable for what:
What DP USA should have is an LLC taxed as a partnership, they can share profits and losses disproportionately to their ownership %'s, certainly an enticement for any "new owner" coming on board.
With an LLC, depending on the state law, all you can get is what's called a "charging order" against the member's interest. What that means is that they don't get squat, other than a K-1 and the profits that go along with it, WITHOUT the cash to pay the taxes, thus, the best asset protection vehicle out there.
With a C corp or an S corp the creditor gets to step into the shoes of the shareholder and "take over" the operations of that ownership %, voting privileges, etc.
As for PERSONAL LIABILITY, there is no liability with any corporate entity from a personal standpoint UNLESS the creditor is able to pierce the corporate veil, no matter what type of entity it is.
You pierce the veil by the owners NOT following the corporate formalities, shareholder meetings, proper accounting practices, etc....
In a "partnership" the liabilities are "joint and several".
They should shut down DP USA, Inc., distribute the deposits back to the original depositors, file the articles of dissolution, get a certificate of good standing from the comptroller and it could be done tomorrow.
Then DP should set up a proper entity here in the US, as an LLC, with Roger or whomever as partner and move the fuck on. It's really not that F ing hard and can be done in a few days.
Give Phil a promissory note for what he's "out of pocket" and be done with it.
Next, before anybody dropped another DIME into this project, i would expect a "trust account" to be set up with monthly accounting and full disclosure to all the owners as to how the funds are being spent.
Make sense? Really simple yet transparency seems to be taboo with pinball.

-1
#1835 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

What if the reason they didn't want Phil to leave is because Phil made a mess of the business and that's w He seemed responsible for the USA business and also posted that there may be an issue with the IRS. If that's the case then maybe that's why Phil wanted to get out so easily. That would be a good deal: first mess up the company and then leave... After this the USA company is even in more problems, so I somehow get why they didn't just let him leave. Also taking over an Inc. when you're Dutch is probably not that easy and will take time...

I'm losing intrest in this topic but...

So you're supposing he made a mess of DP USA and potentially created an IRS issue and they STILL left him holding the purse strings to DP USA deposits? Surely you can see how flawed that logic is and if true, only further demonstrates that any perceived misdeeds wasn't mutually exclusive to Phil's actions. I don't see how this can be spun to anything other than piss poor corporate management on everyone's part. It only serves to justify people's concerns in DP's ability to be good stewards of the money sent to them regardless of the figurehead.

Maybe DP were pushed in a corner because of this problem and didn't see letting Phil go and relieve himself of the mess he made as a way to fix the mess... We just don't know... it's all speculation after hearing just one side of the story... DP can't talk about this publically I suppose due to obvious reasons, so we only get to hear one side...

I just saw that in my initial post I said "If that's the case then maybe that's why they wanted him to get out so easily", I should have said "If that's the case then maybe that's why he (Phil) wanted to get out so easily... I was late... I corrected it in the above copy in case anyone has an interest in this possible view...

-8
#1836 4 years ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

*opens door*
Hey everybody! Good to see you all. Been awhile. What's new? Think I'll get back into.......
*looks around*
.....err........
....ummm.......
*closes door*

#1837 4 years ago

Und dis eez Robert Cray.

-2
#1838 4 years ago
Quoted from C2CPinball:

Two episodes of relevance have just been uploaded.
#126 - What I thought after the NYC Modern Pinball Party and then speaking with Phil
http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-126-a-very-complicated-case-maude-or-just-my-opinion-man_33980
#127 - Roger Sharpe joins us to talk TBL and licensing.
http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-127-a-timely-evening-with-roger-sharpe_33981
http://www.coast2coastpinball.com

Listen especially to the second podcast with Roger Sharpe. That one actually confirms that his whole "Phil having a fit" thing is actually blown WAY out of proportion... and then some (well, at least the license thing). All the stuff that is on the machine is fully within the license, as I can understand.

#1839 4 years ago

Strangely, I haven't gotten any refunds... has everyone gotten refunds ?

-1
#1840 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Strangely, I haven't gotten any refunds... has everyone gotten refunds ?

Some have, some haven't (yet). As I understand it, it also depends on where your deposit went: to "Phil's" DP-US or to the other DP division. Phil started a "wild/unapproved" refund action that only reached some people, but I guess that stopped temporary while they are sorting stuff out (??)

I also read here that DP-BV (the Dutch company) has started giving some people their requested refund, but I guess that will take some time sorting stuff out between DP-US and the Dutch branch, especially since they aren't on speaking terms, I presume.

-3
#1841 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Strangely, I haven't gotten any refunds... has everyone gotten refunds ?

No of course not.
Only US citizens(?) with paypal payments from within the last couple months got a refund.
Foreigners or everyone else was safe from the actions of Phil.

#1842 4 years ago
Quoted from C2CPinball:

Two episodes of relevance have just been uploaded.
#126 - What I thought after the NYC Modern Pinball Party and then speaking with Phil
http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-126-a-very-complicated-case-maude-or-just-my-opinion-man_33980
#127 - Roger Sharpe joins us to talk TBL and licensing.
http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-127-a-timely-evening-with-roger-sharpe_33981
http://www.coast2coastpinball.com

I listened to the Roger one (first half so far) and I fear that he is as he said, being naive. I really hope he does some more due diligence as he jumps in on DP project as at this point he just sounded like damage control and like he has not done all his research yet, but is repeating what was told from one side.

As mentioned the internet goes by 100x the speed of real life, but he has stepped into a sticky situation and the immediacy of the interview just comes off as attempted damage control with no real substance to me.

#1843 4 years ago
Quoted from Biv:

No of course not.
Only US citizens(?) with paypal payments from within the last couple months got a refund.
Foreigners or everyone else was safe from the actions of Phil.

I know I got an unrequested refund but my funds are on a 30 day hold to go back to my card and I sent an email to Barry about the situation and the fact that I now won't have the funds to stay back in till well after the 3rd payment but he hasn't responded yet. I'm sure he is swamped with emails so I'll try and stay patient.

#1844 4 years ago
Quoted from Biv:

Foreigners or everyone else was safe from the actions of Phil..

-> I got also a unrequested full refund from Phil in Euros. Ordered at 10/18/14 on TBL homepage, payment went to paypal-account: phil@dutchpinball.com.

#1845 4 years ago
Quoted from Biv:

No of course not.
Only US citizens(?) with paypal payments from within the last couple months got a refund.
Foreigners or everyone else was safe from the actions of Phil.

Safe, that's a good one.

-12
#1846 4 years ago

Dutch is the new code word for Nigeria

#1847 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

We just don't know... it's all speculation after hearing just one side of the story...

I respect your position. Don't agree with it but that's what makes the world great.

Perhaps we can agree on one faucet. That would be DP Euro left Phil with access to PayPal monies over a month after it was publicly quit. Thats something we do know. That's not speculation on anyone's part. It's an immutable fact.

#1848 4 years ago

I wonder if this thread goes clockwise in Australia? Or is that just a myth? mine here in Illinois just went counter clockwise.

#1849 4 years ago
Quoted from Ruger:

Dutch is the new code word for Nigeria

Without an emoticon, that's a blow below the belt...

Just wait and see, this will eventually be a magnificent product when all this ruckus blows over. Meanwhile listen to the podcast with Roger Sharpe, it will answer a lot of questions raised here about the licensing issues.

#1850 4 years ago

You say he 'quit' like he was just an employee. This whole shitstorm is about Phil not being taken off the 'partnership' in a timely matter.

As far as I know right now Phil is still part of DP USA until whatever paperwork\legal\new partnership\whatever gets worked out.

As someone that was involved in almost the exact same thing (wanted out of a profitable 'business' and forfeiting my share of the profits and contributions with 2 other people) it's not just 'I quit'. It took quite a bit of time to get it done..well over 6 months.

With all due respect..Phil should have started protecting his family day one..and not use his personal information (IE: SSN) in a business venture. Not only is that Business 101..it's Common Sense 101

Quoted from Skins:

I respect your position. Don't agree with it but that's what makes the world great.
Perhaps we can agree on one faucet. That would be DP Euro left Phil with access to PayPal monies over a month after it was publicly quit. Thats something we do know. That's not speculation on anyone's part. It's an immutable fact.

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