(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

4 years ago



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#1601 4 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

Even if this refund thing becomes an issue, I think it is abundantly clear how much interest there is in this project. I've never seen a session at Expo that full, or so many people discussing the game passionately.

Please, please, pleeeeease remember that guys! I'm not trying to convince you not to take a refund (well, I might be a bit ). I'm only trying to bring some balance to this thread that started out very one-sided and looked like a regular lynch mob at first. Things could have been handled better, Phil should have kept stuff in-house, Barry & Jaap should have acted sooner and the license issues should have been addressed better (although I am sure that this part of this discussion is painted worse than it actually is).

It's all water under the bridge now. If you want a refund then you should get one, I'm not going to argue that, but I'm with Burningman on the consequences: you'll loose the chrome & rug and you should get a new place in line. But you will have your money back in the bank and if that reassures you, do it! I'm staying in. Not for the chrome, not for the rug, maybe a bit for my place in line, but most of all because I believe in these guys and I think they cut some corners but they don't deserve ALL of the shit they got in this thread.

#1602 4 years ago
Quoted from examiner:

Off topic, but this cracks me up. Maybe it's a cultural thing, I don't know. What CPR is suggesting is basically the *only* way any small business has been started in North America in the past 200 years (up until the recent past). It's called entrepreneurialship. No guts, no glory. You want the reward? Take the risk.

I guess it's a cultural thing then, because over here it's done differently (NOT saying that either way is wrong). It's the same with credit cards or loans: over here we don't like to borrow money for a vacation or a car, we only take out a loan for a house, the rest we like to pay in cash (saved money). Over in the US, borowing money for "stuff" is much more common. Which way is best? I don't know, it's a difference in culture and I think that is also the case with how DP is run and how your guys think it SHOULD be run.

#1603 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

Please, please, pleeeeease remember that guys! I'm not trying to convince you not to take a refund (well, I might be a bit ). I'm only trying to bring some balance to this thread that started out very one-sided and looked like a regular lynch mob at first. Things could have been handled better, Phil should have kept stuff in-house, Barry & Jaap should have acted sooner and the license issues should have been addressed better (although I am sure that this part of this discussion is painted worse than it actually is).
It's all water under the bridge now. If you want a refund then you should get one, I'm not going to argue that, but I'm with Burningman on the consequences: you'll loose the chrome & rug and you should get a new place in line. But you will have your money back in the bank and if that reassures you, do it! I'm staying in. Not for the chrome, not for the rug, maybe a bit for my place in line, but most of all because I believe in these guys and I think they cut some corners but they don't deserve ALL of the shit they got in this thread.

What this guy said...

-1
#1604 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Man, all these Dutch dudes, I haven't seen such a Dutch uprising since what 1566?

In 1848 we even kicked the French out, I think, and in 1626 we bought Manhattan

But let's not make this a US vs. Netherlands thing.

#1605 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

over here we don't like to borrow money for a vacation or a car, we only take out a loan for a house,

You missed it again.It is the dream of most Americans to own their own business.What examiner was talking about was a business loan.To build your own business,be your own boss,live the "dream".Not take a loan for a vacation!!!!!Where did that come from?

Are you familiar with the phrase"Put your money where your mouth is."

Quoted from Cenobyte:No guts, no glory. You want the reward? Take the risk.

#1606 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

over here we don't like to borrow money for a vacation or a car, we only take out a loan for a house, the rest we like to pay in cash.

Wow ... I must be Dutch instead of 1/2 Polish, 1/4 German, and 1/4 Irish .

-1
#1607 4 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

You missed it again.It is the dream of most Americans to own their own business.What examiner was talking about was a business loan.To build your own business,be your own boss,live the "dream".Not take a loan for a vacation!!!!!Where did that come from?
Are you familiar with the phrase"Put your money where your mouth is."

Sorry for the misunderstanding there, I was only giving an example to illustrate the difference between our cultures when it comes to money and how it's spent/invested/whatever. Nothing more.

20
#1608 4 years ago

I'm sitting on the pot reading this thread to catch up laughing out loud. Some of you are worried about still getting a rug and people skipping back in line? LMAO OMG!!! Let me help, for only $149 shipped in two days you can save thousands and have your rug in time for Xmas

amazon.com link »

#1609 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

I guess it's a cultural thing then, because over here it's done differently (NOT saying that either way is wrong). It's the same with credit cards or loans: over here we don't like to borrow money for a vacation or a car, we only take out a loan for a house, the rest we like to pay in cash. Over in the US, borowing money for "stuff" is much more common. Which way is best? I don't know, it's a difference in culture and I think that is also the case with how DP is run and how your guys think it SHOULD be run.

There are a few of us over here in the states that think the same. I would never take out a loan for a Pinball machine. Ever. But if the opportunity to pay for one, in advance, a little chunk at a time, I can dig that. I have the resources to have written the check right up front, but for me, its a little less of a hit when paying for it in chunks vs writing the fat check.

#1610 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

I'm sitting on the pot reading this thread to catch up laughing out loud. Some of you are worried about still getting a rug and people skipping back in line? LMAO OMG!!! Let me help, for only $149 shipped in two days you can save thousands and have your rug in time for Xmas
amazon.com link »

Amazing!

#1611 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

I'm sitting on the pot reading this thread to catch up laughing out loud. Some of you are worried about still getting a rug and people skipping back in line? LMAO OMG!!! Let me help, for only $149 shipped in two days you can save thousands and have your rug in time for Xmas
amazon.com link »

Dude...thats just a rug...not the highly sought after official Big Lebowski Pinball limited run model. Its priceless.

#1612 4 years ago

I was just trying to get you to see what Kevin from CPR and examiner were getting at.

ok back on topic......

#1613 4 years ago

Good luck to those sticking with this.

I preordered because I felt comfortable after hearing their policies on certain things, including refunds. Now, I'm frankly much less comfortable loaning out my funds. I walked away from their seminar truly believing they have their shit together. Maybe they do, and there's just one dissenter, but I'm not willing to wager on that.

My reason for preordering wasn't the rug, or the chrome (I honestly don't like chrome, or "fingerprints LE"), I preordered primarily because this was a dream theme for me, and I'm insanely impatient. I just wanted my machine sooner than later. I also didn't want to get hit by a possible price hike after Expo.

At this point, I'm not willing to gamble that $500 on $8,500. I'll probably buy another game, and get the cash together for this one when TBL is ready. I really want this game, but I'm learning a lesson in patience.

#1614 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

There are a few of us over here in the states that think the same. I would never take out a loan for a Pinball machine. Every. But if the opportunity to pay for one, in advance, a little chunk at a time, I can dig that. I have the resources to have written the check right up front, but for me, its a little less of a hit when paying for it in chunks vs writing the fat check.

Well, of course there are also Dutch people that take out a loan on a car, I wasn't suggesting it was so black and white The point I was trying to get across was that I think US and Dutch people have (somewhat) different views on money and how to run/fund a company (no pun intended). That might explain the way people on Pinside react to how DP runs their projects and manage money in their company.

#1615 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

In 1848 we even kicked the French out, I think, and in 1626 we bought Manhattan

Check...and...mate! Nicely played...

I love the Dutch, if for no other reason than Johannes Vermeer. It's all in good fun, and I plan to visit next summer so you can all kick my ass in person. (I know Robin will!)

#1616 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Check...and...mate! Nicely played...
I love the Dutch, if for no other reason than Johannes Vermeer. It's all in good fun, and I plan to visit next summer so you can all kick my ass in person. (I know Robin will!)

Beelzeboob let me know when and i will arrange a trip to the Dutch Pinball Association, we got like 120 pins in our clubhouse.

#1617 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Check...and...mate! Nicely played...
I love the Dutch, if for no other reason than Johannes Vermeer. It's all in good fun, and I plan to visit next summer so you can all kick my ass in person. (I know Robin will!)

Well, not to get all mushy here, but I also love The States and American people. Went there a couple of times and it's a wonderful country with lots to see and people are much more talkative than over here. I also LOVE muscle cars (own a Corvette and a '67 Caprice as you can se on my avatar). [Mushy mode off]

#1618 4 years ago
Quoted from Benboogaard:

Beelzeboob let me know when and i will arrange a trip to the Dutch Pinball Association, we got like 120 pins in our clubhouse.

Will do, and thanks for the invite. But if I spend too much time playing pinball when I'm supposed to be zipping around Europe, I'll be coming home without a wife. I'll be in touch when we finalize plans!

#1619 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

Over in the US, borowing money for "stuff" is much more common. Which way is best? I don't know, it's a difference in culture and I think that is also the case with how DP is run and how your guys think it SHOULD be run.

Just wondering how taking $100's of thousands of pre-order dollars from customers over a year in advance of delivery is not considered borrowing money?

Skit B did it... DP did it. Doesn't seem to be related to US vs Europe after all...

#1620 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

[Mushy mode off]

I think we should just leave mushy mode on for everyone

#1621 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Will do, and thanks for the invite. But if I spend too much time playing pinball when I'm supposed to be zipping around Europe, I'll be coming home without a wife. I'll be in touch when we finalize plans!

This problem sounds familiar Let me know in time.

#1622 4 years ago

Not sure why so many are willing to except 100% of what Phil has said as fact. It is clear he is working his agenda and at this point very few of his accusations can be proven true or accurate. I think the majority of folks here would agree that calling him a 'disgruntled employee' is an accurate description. I'm not saying there every thing he says is BS, but I am saying I'm taking all of it with a grain of salt.

Even showing money leaving a paypal account and moving between entities does not mean that anything illegal or unethical was done, there are plenty of legitimate reasons why it may have been done.

The hiring of Roger Sharpe did not happen in response to this weeks drama, it occurred when Phil indicated he no longer wanted to be involved. Clearly DP understood they needed someone to work the license issues, who understood it and universally it appears everyone agrees Roger is the right guy for that. This also shows the DP clearly wants to do things the right way.

Lets not forget that this is a new company, and like all new companies there are going to be some mis-steps. For those who were in and are now bailing, I don't get it. You knew when you decided to jump in, that it was not necessarily going to be smooth sailing -- there was plenty of examples of the new companies before them hitting rough seas. If you don't have the stomach for it, you should not have gotten onboard in the first place.

While I expect all of this will get resolved over the next couple of weeks, the bad thing is this will now slow the project down by at least that long as these guys are dealing with all of this, made so much worse by Phil's actions here on pinside.

#1623 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Just wondering how taking $100's of thousands of pre-order dollars from customers over a year in advance of delivery is not considered borrowing money for "stuff"?
Skit B did it... DP did it. Doesn't seem to be related to US vs Europe after all...

Because it constitutes prepaying for a product or service.

#1624 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Check...and...mate! Nicely played...
I love the Dutch, if for no other reason than Johannes Vermeer.

Ah yes for me it was Rietveld.

One of my Dutch clients had a large collection of Rietveld furniture, and was eccentric to the point that he usually left his house unlocked in downtown Toronto. That always blew my mind.

-Rod

#1625 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

The hiring of Roger Sharpe did not happen in response to this weeks drama, it occurred when Phil indicated he no longer wanted to be involved.

If the insinuations are true of the next title(s) and that Roger has helped already, I would say Roger may have been in the mix longer than early November.

That may add yet another (unneeded) wrinkle to this - maybe another reason for Phil's behaviour.... they brought in someone else on top of him.

-Rod

#1626 4 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Because it constitutes prepaying for a product or service.

It's still debt no? It's being used to fund operations like any other outside capital, loan or otherwise.

If it were held in trust, and was earning untouched interest during the builds, I would agree with you; course then a simple PO and small deposit would be just as effective at securing an order on paper, but then there's no money to borrow from customers of course.

-1
#1627 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

We didn't care about that city. We left it for the Poles. Everything else, we saved.

Haha, .

#1628 4 years ago
Quoted from Rossz:

You build a business plan, you pitch banks, you get loan(s), and then you start! Sounds easy ? Sure it's not, but that's the way business do (usually).

Contrary to popular belief, banks are NOT in the venture capital business.

Since 95% of all new businesses fail within 3 years, there would not be a single bank left if they lent you money to throw down the toilet.

Banks will loan you 50% of your collateral, so if you have $200,000, they might loan you $100,000.

#1629 4 years ago

Also Phil's statement that they met w/ a distributor @ expo from Toronto isn't panning out from who I've talked to.

There's only one biggie here and I believe their claim that they didn't have anyone there this year, and never talked to dp. I sure didn't see anyone I recognized floating around.

On the other hand I had inquired early on about distributorship and they sure didn't have a meeting w/ me.

-Rod

#1630 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

Even showing money leaving a paypal account and moving between entities does not mean that anything illegal or unethical was done, there are plenty of legitimate reasons why it may have been done.

Certainly there is not only one possible outcome.. but it does raise smoke. Especially when its done without suitable explanation between the partners.

Quoted from rosh:

The hiring of Roger Sharpe did not happen in response to this weeks drama, it occurred when Phil indicated he no longer wanted to be involved

Source? This also flies in the face of Phil's version of the story and his motivations to leave. If they had brought in an experienced industry person to address the licensing issues and help advise the group... don't you think that would have been a huge relief to Phil? And consolidation for why he should stay on.. and be part of the pitch to him on why he should stay on? Turning a blind eye to all the licensing concerns was the major instigator that pushed Phil out and why he continued to fear he was exposed as they moved forward. Remember, Barry was still trying to keep Phil involved ('just pay the invoices') and sooth him (the proposal on Dec 4 to dissolve DP USA after shipment)... certainly Sharpe's involvement would be part of that conversation.

Quoted from rosh:

This also shows the DP clearly wants to do things the right way.

If that were the case... we wouldn't be here. I think it shows DP's resolve to keep moving FORWARD and willing to invest to make that happen.

#1631 4 years ago

After this debacle, there is a 0% chance that I would hand any money over to DP until they have a finished/proven product that is actually shipping. Zero. Those of you with stronger stomachs, I hope it all pans out and you get your games.

ef9e1a22156f3ec7b5880c47d53487db9edcc23d026f7b68d7c5dd82d445c00f.jpg

#1632 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

The hiring of Roger Sharpe did not happen in response to this weeks drama, it occurred when Phil indicated he no longer wanted to be involved. Clearly DP understood they needed someone to work the license issues, who understood it and universally it appears everyone agrees Roger is the right guy for that. This also shows the DP clearly wants to do things the right way.

Rosh you're a good dude but have to disagree with your get back on the bandwagon posting and calling out "weak stomachs". Was Roger hired weeks ago because DP knew they needed help after Phil left and wanted to do it the right way? Or did things with Universal start to unravel even further when Phil left and warned about - now need to hire the big gun to steady the ship? I don't think any of us know but the main players involved.

I certainly hope DP delivers TBL pin. But I do think pre-order owners have a right to re-evaluate their position in light of recent information. It's shocking some of you are scolding pre-order owners for keeping their money just refunded in light of the shocking revelations in this thread. There's a good chance DP addresses Phil's statements within this thread and regains trust that they have their house now in order from a business stand point. But until then, let's not ignore 20+ pages of information and say all's well because Roger was hired as a consultant. There's reason for some optimism but I wouldn't feel right telling my friends jump back on at this point. Would you?

#1633 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

It's still debt no? It's being used to fund operations like any other outside capital, loan or otherwise.
If it were held in trust, and was earning untouched interest during the builds, I would agree with you; course then a simple PO and small deposit would be just as effective at securing an order on paper, but then there's no money to borrow from customers of course.

It goes onto the balance sheet as a liability, but it is not debt. It is also not treated as deposits say on a rental property IMO. In that case, if the tenant meets the terms of their rental agreement, those deposits get refunded. In this case, these "deposits" are for the production of their good. As long as DP meets the terms of their agreement with the customer, that money is staying with DP.

If it were different and they held the money in trust, I agree, that would just sit there and earn interest until the terms of the trust were fulfilled and the principal money is allowed to be withdrawn.

#1634 4 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

It goes onto the balance sheet as a liability, but it is not debt... As long as DP meets the terms of their agreement with the customer, that money is staying with DP.

Yes debt implies it would need to be repaid/renewed at the conclusion of the current agreement. I shouldn't have used that term - my mistake. My first term 'borrowing' still stands

DP operations (to my understanding) are using some of this pre-order money to run the business, thus a 'run on the bank' (due to the 100% refundable agreement) could result in some liabilities to customers not being fulfilled. Again imo, if these funds were not 'borrowed' they would be in trust (as an asset?... I don't know about that part) waiting for either a) a machine to ship or b) a refund request.

I think you get my point (even if you disagree) so I'll stop making it now

#1635 4 years ago
Quoted from Soltic:

Also Phil's statement that they met w/ a distributor @ expo from Toronto isn't panning out from who I've talked to.
There's only one biggie here and I believe their claim that they didn't have anyone there this year, and never talked to dp. I sure didn't see anyone I recognized floating around.
On the other hand I had inquired early on about distributorship and they sure didn't have a meeting w/ me.
-Rod

I can confirm this. I was at dp booth at expo, in fact they even approached me first as they heard I was dutch and thought I was part of DP which I am not, when a possible distributor from Canada approached Jaap to discuss a distributorship and Jaap clearly said politely NO. For the moment they have no distributor network in mind, direct sales it is. This message was loud and clear. And as every good businessman does, it was a polite NO with the door not fully closed. Can't recall the name but it were two men rather small, one had a beard I can recall. I did see them at VIP party.

Just good business sense from Jaap, always leave doors open

-3
#1636 4 years ago

Absolutely I would.

Really whats the difference? If DP came out of the gate saying that Sharpe was on board everyone would have said, "Daaaauuuuumn! They got the big Gun!"

Now they are saying, "we got the big Gun"...I felt confident before, but now....sheeeeit..our worries are over dude.

#1637 4 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

I can confirm this. I was at dp booth at expo, in fact they even approached me first as they heard I was dutch and thought I was part of DP, when a possible distributor from Canada approached Jaap to discuss a distributorship and Jaap clearly said politely NO. For the moment they have no distributor network in mind, direct sales it is. This message was loud and clear. And as every good businessman does, it was a polite NO with the door not fully closed. Can't recall the name but it were two men rather small, one had a beard I can recall. I did see them at VIP party.
Just good business sense from Jaap, always leave doors open

Yep...and Barry was talking with Nate about this topic at MP Saturday night. Right now there is no distributors. I know that there are more than a few that would like to be distributors and I think they are keeping that door open, but right now. None.

#1638 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Yes debt implies it would need to be repaid/renewed at the conclusion of the current agreement. I shouldn't have used that term - my mistake. My first term 'borrowing' still stands
DP operations (to my understanding) are using some of this pre-order money to run the business, thus a 'run on the bank' (due to the 100% refundable agreement) could result in some liabilities to customers not being fulfilled. Again imo, if these funds were not 'borrowed' they would be in trust (as an asset?... I don't know about that part) waiting for either a) a machine to ship or b) a refund request.
I think you get my point (even if you disagree) so I'll stop making it now

No totally. I see your point. With how they have been accounting for, and using these deposits is not a good idea because it puts them at significant risk if they cannot deliver the product and they owe the money back to the customer. And considering in their entire history they have never delivered a product, that increases the risk even more, haha.

-1
#1639 4 years ago

Maybe wise to first finish this issue. So all parties are happy. And then go contract a new distributor.

#1640 4 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

I can confirm this. I was at dp booth at expo, in fact they even approached me first as they heard I was dutch and thought I was part of DP which I am not, when a possible distributor from Canada approached Jaap to discuss a distributorship and Jaap clearly said politely NO. For the moment they have no distributor network in mind, direct sales it is. This message was loud and clear. And as every good businessman does, it was a polite NO with the door not fully closed. Can't recall the name but it were two men rather small, one had a beard I can recall. I did see them at VIP party.
Just good business sense from Jaap, always leave doors open

Thanks Rensh, for my own curiosity I will pursue.

In the interim u say they were small and one had a beard.

Do any of these look like the suspects?:

HAUJ_Bus_Dwarves_DOM.jpg

#1641 4 years ago

The man in the middle ^^

#1642 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

No, it's better NOT to play Russian Roulette AT ALL when running a company!
I agree with you on the whole pre-order thing, but these guys already invested a shitload of their own money and time before a single pre-order was taken. Don't make it look so black and white, like they're on a tropical island spending all these thousands on chicks & booze.

No they were at expo doing that.

#1643 4 years ago
Quoted from megadeth2600:

I must be Dutch instead of 1/2 Polish, 1/4 German, and 1/4 Irish .

You need http://23andme.com

#1644 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Rosh you're a good dude but have to disagree with your get back on the bandwagon posting and calling out "weak stomachs". Was Roger hired weeks ago because DP knew they needed help after Phil left and wanted to do it the right way? Or did things with Universal start to unravel even further when Phil left and warned about - now need to hire the big gun to steady the ship? I don't think any of us know but the main players involved.

My first point was not to get back on the bandwagon, but questioning those who jumped off. If you got in on in the first place, you should have known there would be some bumps in the road (see JJP, Skit-B), and at the first sign of trouble you jump off? Well, you probably should not have gotten on in the first place. I personally have not done pre-orders, since I am in the 'I want to play it first' camp. So, I guess I've not jumped on bandwagons, and it is certainly fair to call me out on accusing those of "weak stomaches", from someone sitting in the cheap seats.

Whether it was before or after Phil left, I don't know the exact timing, but I do know it was prior to last week. I would tend to think after Phil decided to leave, as hard to see them taking on that expense if they already had someone doing it. It is of course possible it was before and that contributed to Phil's leaving -- I don't know. Either way, it is clear that they recognized the importance of having someone working with the license holder who could be effective at doing so.

#1645 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

Absolutely I would.

Really whats the difference? If DP came out of the gate saying that Sharpe was on board everyone would have said, "Daaaauuuuumn! They got the big Gun!"

Now they are saying, "we got the big Gun"...I felt confident before, but now....sheeeeit..our worries are over dude.

I respect your position to stay in. But you're disregarding all the other issues beyond the license one. And for you, it's cool if the other issues don't bother you. For me, I would tell my friends to hang tight until resolved.

BTW...Scott at DP is a super SOLID guy whom I have confidence in. But would still need some of the issues brought to light at levels above him at DP to gain my personal referral to a paying pre-order friend. Just being honest.

10
#1646 4 years ago

Funny to watch all this talk about the money. Here it is in a nutshell. All pre-orders are liabilities as they are considered deferred revenue. If DP goes out of business, all secured creditors get a shot at remaining assets first, then secondary creditors, a few other entities such as employees pay checks, etc. and at the very end whatever is left might be sent back to people that pre-ordered as a refund. You have no standing and literally no shot at getting anything back if they go out of business. And forget about suing anyone, won't happen because there is no one to get money from since it is a business and liability stops there, it doesn't transfer to the owners since it is a corporation or LLC.

Pre-paid gift cards for retail stores are in the same boat. Years ago, some department store that was in financial trouble actually stated they would cease to honor pre-paid gift cards during their bankruptcy for the same exact reason. Under bankruptcy restructuring, all the creditors had first shot at any assets. All those pre-paid 'deferred revenue' gift cards were a liability to the company that had no secured creditors so they were at the bottom of the list.

Never, ever buy something ahead of time from a startup. Your risk is extremely high compared to any other purchase from an established company.

#1647 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

rosh said:
Even showing money leaving a paypal account and moving between entities does not mean that anything illegal or unethical was done, there are plenty of legitimate reasons why it may have been done.

Certainly there is not only one possible outcome.. but it does raise smoke. Especially when its done without suitable explanation between the partners.

We don't know if there was or weren't we are getting Phil's presentation of the facts. Maybe it was discussed with him and he disagreed with doing it, does not mean it was wrong, but he still chose to throw it out here as 'theft' (at least I believe he made that accusation).

Quoted from flynnibus:

rosh said:
The hiring of Roger Sharpe did not happen in response to this weeks drama, it occurred when Phil indicated he no longer wanted to be involved

Source? This also flies in the face of Phil's version of the story and his motivations to leave. If they had brought in an experienced industry person to address the licensing issues and help advise the group... don't you think that would have been a huge relief to Phil? And consolidation for why he should stay on.. and be part of the pitch to him on why he should stay on? Turning a blind eye to all the licensing concerns was the major instigator that pushed Phil out and why he continued to fear he was exposed as they moved forward. Remember, Barry was still trying to keep Phil involved ('just pay the invoices') and sooth him (the proposal on Dec 4 to dissolve DP USA after shipment)... certainly Sharpe's involvement would be part of that conversation.

I have had many conversations with members of the DP team and heard about Roger being involved long before this past weekend, and as I think has been posted Roger was involved in other DP projects relative to licensing. I do not know if it occurred before or after Phil left, so I was not totally clear about that in my post. As I just wrote in another response, I would tend to think it was after, since taking on that extra expense when you already had someone doing it, does not make sense to me -- but I do not know the exact timing of it.

Quoted from flynnibus:

rosh said:
This also shows the DP clearly wants to do things the right way.

If that were the case... we wouldn't be here. I think it shows DP's resolve to keep moving FORWARD and willing to invest to make that happen.

Well, we are here because Phil took action on his own and made a variety of accusations, which may or may not be true, but I am confident it is not the whole story. And there is certainly non conclusive evidence that DP was deliberately not doing the right thing. Regardless, I agree that it shows DP's resolve to keep moving forward, although I don't think there was much doubt about t hat.

#1648 4 years ago

Didn't JJP have to secure a secondary capital investment to continue operations to get WOZ out the door? If they weren't able to, everyone that pre-ordered WOZ might have lost out on their deposits as well. Risky business giving money to an entity without a product.

#1649 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

Absolutely I would.
Really whats the difference? If DP came out of the gate saying that Sharpe was on board everyone would have said, "Daaaauuuuumn! They got the big Gun!"
Now they are saying, "we got the big Gun"...I felt confident before, but now....sheeeeit..our worries are over dude.

When we want something really bad our human nature has a way of rationalizing anything.

I'm in the camp of let them build it, see how it all plays out with licensing, production, code etc and I'll happily wait at the end of the line with money in bank and ready to go if successful.

I had made that decision though before all this mess. Thankfully, refund hit.

12
#1650 4 years ago
Quoted from Soltic:

If the insinuations are true of the next title(s) and that Roger has helped already, I would say Roger may have been in the mix longer than early November.

It's my understanding that Roger was involved with Bride 2.0, which isn't exactly astounding news, it's a Williams property, who else is the man to talk to?

Regardless, I don't think it has anything to do with Phil leaving, it's not a magic bullet, I wouldn't start jumping to conclusions about Roger somehow being a DP partner and running shit, but I'm sure he can help smooth out the rest of the licensing discussions.

At this stage it's really pointless to wonder who's at fault, and what really happened. There's enough bullshit that's easily stated as fact (for instance that Phil even had access to the bank weeks after leaving the company messily) that people have a right to feel uncomfortable without anyone accusing them of having weak stomachs or no balls or whatever.

Either DP can still make the game or they can't. If they can't it probably wasn't meant to be, shit happens in manufacturing, you gotta be flexible. If they can, then great, can't wait to see the final product. I'm personally pulling for them, and have no ill will towards anyone. Everyone involved are humans who make mistakes, I don't believe anyone had actual evil intentions.

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