(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 3,821 posts
  • 422 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Xerico
  • Topic is favorited by 51 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 240 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

did i miss it.gif
image.jpg
2015 LFLA Poster.jpg
J.jpg
image.jpg
Rug.jpg
dude-bathtub.png
IMG_3535.JPG
image.jpg
tumblr_n5b3mkHQ3s1rx3q30o1_500.gif
Alaska-Marijuana.jpg
hell-freezes-over.jpg
image.jpg
Glowing rock pop.jpg
image.jpg
JeffBridges_TBL.jpg

This topic is closed.

There are 3821 posts in this topic. You are on page 26 of 77.
#1252 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Dutch Pinball has called in The Wolf!

the-wolf-pulp-fiction.jpg 25 KB

Shit your calling the Wolf in? That's all you had to say!
image-313.jpg

#1253 4 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

Okay, thanks for that.
But InsertMedia would still be required to put the money BACK into the DP-BV and DP-US entities for the purposes of their products (to date, only TBL), right? One couldn't simply channel money from DP-BV/-US to InsertMedia without expecting some recompensation back into DP-BV/-US, right?

To keep it simple.. a company can give the money to the other company.. they just have to account for it and categorize it properly so it hits the books correctly for taxing and auditing purposes.

What they can't be doing is incurring an expense in company A... then simply tell company B to pay the bill without any more reconciliation between A/B and the accounting.

#1254 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Dutch Pinball has called in The Wolf!

the-wolf-pulp-fiction.jpg 25 KB

Is he also an accountant?

#1255 4 years ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

What else can they say, tell us please !?

Well, for a start, they could actually address some of Phil's claims. As a company, I'm sure they are seeking legal advice as to what to say, and that's fine and that's what I would do.

But I'm not a company, I'm a potential-customer and creditor to them and that blanket "it's all going to be okay" statement just isn't going to cut it for me. I want answers, and they have given none, and it has cost them one creditor and customer. At the end of the day, I and I alone decide where and who I'm going to spend my money on. I WANTED it to be DP, but I am just no longer comfortable being part of this, no matter who is in the right between Phil and DP.

#1256 4 years ago
Quoted from shimoda:

Considering how many of the pin community (and their perspective buyers) are here, a letter to VIPs seems not really public. It is a private communication. How should someone that hasn't ordered but was considering ordering think about communication, when there has been no communication publicly. Pinsiders posting a private e-mail does not a public communication make.

I think its Only fair VIP's get this message privately first since their assets are on the line, no?

#1257 4 years ago

too little, too late.

I see ZERO reason not to take a wait and see approach with ANY non limited pinball.

#1258 4 years ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

Makes me feel a little better, but they have not answered Phil's allegations yet. You think after everything said, they would have defended themselves against Phil's claims if they were not true.

that would be a horrible thing for them to do.

#1259 4 years ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

Makes me feel a little better, but they have not answered Phil's allegations yet. You think after everything said, they would have defended themselves against Phil's claims if they were not true.

Again - I assume they got legal advice not to comment on this.
Not trying to defend DP at all costs (because from what I read Phil has good reasons to be pissed off) but their answer makes sense to me. But I have no horse in that race so you are entitled to be less lenient.

11
#1260 4 years ago

I got the email. Love finally hearing from them. But, right now, I could give a shit about the game or the f*cking license. I want to know where my money is. Once we get that solved, then let's talk about how awesome the game is going to be and I can decide if I will be reinvesting with DP. Until that gets answered, this customer is becoming more and more unlikely to order again.

After Phil's email weeks ago about quitting..... HOW THE HELL DOES HE STILL HAVE THE KEYS TO THE PAYPAL ACCOUNT. SLOPPY.

#1261 4 years ago

I think the lack of addressing funds security says more than anything in that email.

Rod

#1262 4 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

Yeah, that's not gonna cut it for me. I'm out. I really wanted to hold in there, and that non-answer isn't enough for me.

A non-answer? They brought in Roger Sharpe for the licensing issues, which IMHO was a big deal in this whole situation. You can't call that a non-answer. I'm sure the rest of the rubble will get cleaned up in the coming period.

#1263 4 years ago

co-incidentally just released earlier today... Makes interesting reading

http://pavlovpinball.com/pinball-licencing-101-how-much-why-and-harry-potter/

#1264 4 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

. I want answers, and they have given none, and it has cost them one creditor and customer.

When a company goes through something like this, the best course of action is to get it settled as quickly as possible. Not spend time publically responding to every allegation that comes down the pipe.

10
#1265 4 years ago

As a refunded VIP I would like some time to decide if I'm in or out of TBL. If DP is reading this I think it's fair that the people who were refunded without having requested it should have a grace period (for new shit to come to light) with out losing our preorder perks, pricing and place in line. I still have not heard enough to even consider throwing my money back in at this point!

#1266 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

A non-answer? They brought in Roger Sharpe for the licensing issues, which IMHO was a big deal in this whole situation. You can't call that a non-answer. I'm sure the rest of the rubble will get cleaned up in the coming period.

Have fun digging.

#1267 4 years ago

Personally, I would say refund all of the pre-orders, and when the game is 100% approved for fabrication, then put them up for sale. And as a thank you to those of us who did preorder, allow us to go back in the original order sequence.

Funding previous projects with money from future projects is a doomed way to operate a (small) business.

#1268 4 years ago

I have been lied to outright by DP about my deposit and I'm curious to see if anyone is in the same boat: Phil cashed my check after Expo (10/28), and Barry is claiming that my check was not cashed. Am I alone in this, or are others in this situation?

#1269 4 years ago
Quoted from MinusWorlds:

BECAUSE THE PAYPAL ACCOUNT IS UNDER PHIL'S PERSONAL SSN.
Wasn't that covered in Post#1?!?!?!?!
Jeebus people.

Why though? They are incorporated. The first thing that should have been done following that is applying for a EIN so that no one is doing anything under their personal SSN.

Just seems like sloppy business practices which has led to internal strife. Most of the issues brought up have little to no relevance to customers. And no reputable company is going to sling mud with a disgruntled business partner about private business matters.

#1270 4 years ago

Funny thing is that if everybody asks for a refund, they'll no longer have funds and collapse.

They're doom'd anyway.

11
#1271 4 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

I got the email. Love finally hearing from them. But, right now, I could give a shit about the game or the f*cking license. I want to know where my money is. Once we get that solved, then let's talk about how awesome the game is going to be and I can decide if I will be reinvesting with DP. Until that gets answered, this customer is becoming more and more unlikely to order again.

After Phil's email weeks ago about quitting..... HOW THE HELL DOES HE STILL HAVE THE KEYS TO THE PAYPAL ACCOUNT. SLOPPY.

This. The only thing most of us (that money on the line) care about is making sure our deposits in DP USA don't just up and vanish. If Roger Sharpe comes in and puts his rep on the line and says everything is cool then we can reevaluate/reinvest later once the stink of all this washes off. Right now, I wan't my $4500 sitting in my bank account were I know it is safe.

#1272 4 years ago

well I called the Roger Sharpe angle... glad they were able to enlist his experience on this. I wasn't sure how free he is to do this type of contracting/consulting. I have a feeling though with all his years and reputation, Roger isn't the type that will tolerate loose-y/goose-y grey area stuff. Do it right or I am out of here...

I hope they can continue to get the help they need to right this ship

#1273 4 years ago
Quoted from JDee:

Funny thing is that if everybody asks for a refund, they'll no longer have funds and collapse.
They're doom'd anyway.

They weren't even smart enough to prevent a guy who no longer works with them from sending back unrequested refunds. Not exactly inspiring confidence.

20
#1274 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

too little, too late.
I see ZERO reason not to take a wait and see approach with ANY non limited pinball.

How about wait and see with any pinball at all. Forget the limited* asterisk. And yes, that means WOOLY too, sorry. No money for games that don't exist, no matter who makes them or what the theme is.

"Give us money and you'll have a game in 3ish months" would be acceptable, beyond that? Pass.

#1275 4 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

I got the email. Love finally hearing from them. But, right now, I could give a shit about the game or the f*cking license. I want to know where my money is. Once we get that solved, then let's talk about how awesome the game is going to be and I can decide if I will be reinvesting with DP. Until that gets answered, this customer is becoming more and more unlikely to order again.
After Phil's email weeks ago about quitting..... HOW THE HELL DOES HE STILL HAVE THE KEYS TO THE PAYPAL ACCOUNT. SLOPPY.

Exactly correct. They are either not hearing the communities concerns or choosing not to answer them and are instead trying to wow us with roger. To take your post one step further, why did you use phil's name and social to create a new DP USA PayPal account he is liable for but has no access to.

#1276 4 years ago
Quoted from JDee:

Funny thing is that if everybody asks for a refund, they'll no longer have funds and collapse.
They're doom'd anyway.

They could acquire a loan or bring in investors like just about every other business in the world does.

Funding your business with pre-orders is a recipe for disaster.

#1277 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

too little, too late.
I see ZERO reason not to take a wait and see approach with ANY non limited pinball.

Quoted from Aurich:

How about wait and see with any pinball at all. Forget the limited* asterisk. And yes, that means WOOLY too, sorry. No money for games that don't exist, no matter who makes them or what the theme is.
"Give us money and you'll have a game in 3ish months" would be acceptable, beyond that? Pass.

And Predator

#1278 4 years ago

I can allready see my lovely TBL arriving in april, and sooner too with all the non beleivers having dropped out...

#1279 4 years ago

Getting Roger Sharpe on board is huge. I have played these twice and in the end I have reservations about the pre order thing. What I dont have reservations on is that the game is one of the greatest I have ever played.
Personally I don't have the stomach for the risk reward but it's one beautiful and fun game!
I truly hope this gets cleaned up and succeeds. best of luck guys and I do hope to buy one when they are at distributor for sale.

#1280 4 years ago

Man...over 700 ppl on pinside right now... is anybody working or are you on the shitter like me...

#1281 4 years ago
Quoted from cyclone1234:

Roger Sharp is the king of Licensing!

imagine how much hes going to tell them they have to change cause none of its secure now...not the art not the sound none...he wont get to use everything they have incorperated...they will have some issues

10
#1282 4 years ago

The response seems very professional to me and I think sending it out by email was a good choice. They would have to be crazy to step into this thread. Great move to get Roger Sharpe on the licensing. Let's hope they have got someone just as good to work on the legal details and the mediation with Phil and this is sorted out behind the scenes to everyone's satisfaction.

#1283 4 years ago

The reality is the boutique pinball will not exist without preorders. I will probably put my $ back in just to see this game get made. But I am going to wait for the dust to settle, and the DP USA situation to be resolved before I give them anything.

#1284 4 years ago

To quote G.W. here "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...You can't get fooled again."

YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
(insert favorite Caruso meme)

I honestly do hope this has a happy ending for anyone that has money tied up in this, but if this isn't a shot across the bow, I don't know what is.

#1285 4 years ago
Quoted from sturner:

They could acquire a loan or bring in investors like just about every other business in the world does.
Funding your business with pre-orders is a recipe for disaster.

You know which is another recipe for disaster? Start asking for loans and investors while the boat is sinking.

This is not even funny anymore. It's a tragedy.

#1286 4 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

I got the email. Love finally hearing from them. But, right now, I could give a shit about the game or the f*cking license. I want to know where my money is. Once we get that solved, then let's talk about how awesome the game is going to be and I can decide if I will be reinvesting with DP. Until that gets answered, this customer is becoming more and more unlikely to order again.

After Phil's email weeks ago about quitting..... HOW THE HELL DOES HE STILL HAVE THE KEYS TO THE PAYPAL ACCOUNT. SLOPPY.

+1

or

+5,500 for most of us

Give me f-in money back and then I'll decide if I want to stay in, right now I have some ex-owner telling me he has it in his account. Sick of this nonsense

#1287 4 years ago
Quoted from JDee:

You know which is another recipe for disaster? Start asking for loans and investors while the boat is sinking.
This is not even funny anymore. It's a tragedy.

Well... Actually it's only a tragedy at Pinside

#1288 4 years ago

This one is for you light cycle guy....

giphy.gif

#1289 4 years ago
Quoted from toibs:

co-incidentally just released earlier today... Makes interesting reading
http://pavlovpinball.com/pinball-licencing-101-how-much-why-and-harry-potter/

co-incidentally? Are you sure? Sounded like a "Get his name out there... QUICK" type of thing so he can be seen as a white hat.

#1290 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

How about wait and see with any pinball at all. Forget the limited* asterisk. And yes, that means WOOLY too, sorry. No money for games that don't exist, no matter who makes them or what the theme is.
"Give us money and you'll have a game in 3ish months" would be acceptable, beyond that? Pass.

wait a sec... why even have your asterisk for *3ish months? If you want to take a stand against pre-pay then you should include Stern in that also.

For me, I am currently happy to support US based companies with limited runs as I believe that is the only way they will get off the ground. That is my choice.

Why are you deciding to drawn the line at 3ish months from payment to delivery?

#1291 4 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

+1
or
+5,500 for most of us
Give me f-in money back and then I'll decide if I want to stay in, right now I have some ex-owner telling me he has it in his account. Sick of this nonsense

I'd rather have this situation fixed first (Phil with keys to account) then proceed with refunding people such as yourself that want to wait and see. Continuing to encourage Phil to use that account is just muddying the waters more IMHO since he's admitted he doesn't have access customer lists, etc anymore. You can queue up a refund request to sales@ dutch pinball if you want.

#1292 4 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Sounded like a "Get his name out there... QUICK" type of thing so he can be seen as a white hat.

If you are referring to Roger Sharp, I think his name was already out there.

#1293 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

This one is for the light cycle guy....
http://i.giphy.com/3MW7RxLPLQGOc.gif

You're sharp

#1294 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Why are you deciding to drawn the line at 3ish months from payment to delivery?

+1 I thumbed-up the Aurich post, but I'm personally instituting a blanket "no pre-orders, no exceptions" policy.

-2
#1295 4 years ago

Now would be a perfect time for JJP to leak some info on Pat's new game. Taking advantage of a situation like this would be a great business decision.

#1297 4 years ago

I played TBL at 150AM on Friday and the pin on the right was out of action. Ball return completely stopped working. The machine I played(on the left) failed to register the 1st ball and then bowling mode went completely wacky. It kept letting me bowl for several frames and then stopped setting the pins. I was bowling in an empty alley. The display also malfunctioned at this time.

Don't get me wrong, I loved it while it lasted. Part was a bit of a disapointment since I came up from Nashville and waited several hours to play. TBL, while working was awesome. Love the sound, display, shout outs, and flow. Should be a top 5 game if kinks are worked out correctly. Let's all hope this game gets built!

#1298 4 years ago

While I am glad that they put out a communication, I also believe this entire situation is still vulnerable as it was a day ago.

I see the on-boarding of Roger as a positive move and am hopeful he can work out the licensing issues on their behalf…….but I also read this as he’s being brought on as a Consultant and not as a Partner.

If my assumption is true, then at the end of the day he will provide guidance/assistance on licensing and move on. The back end business practices will still reside with DP and to me that’s still an area of concern.

#1299 4 years ago

Order is cancelled (the three payments on my DP order status page are all cleared out now), but I haven't seen any money yet. I gave them the details of each Paypal payment when I requested the order be cancelled, so hopefully it's just going to take time. The third one, which I made shortly after the original refund was sent (verifying that I was, in fact, committed to DP and TBL right up until today), was made to Dutch Pinball BV (paypal@dutchpinball.com) for everyone's info. So, they are not still* impersonating Phil.

*assuming they ever were, I don't know, I only have Phil's side.

#1300 4 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

co-incidentally? Are you sure? Sounded like a "Get his name out there... QUICK" type of thing so he can be seen as a white hat.

Lol - Well i read it around 11am GMT.... Hadn't thought about it like that!!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 259.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball LEDs
$ 21.00
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
$ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball LEDs
€ 3.70
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 11.00
Electronics
Yorktown Parts and Equip
$ 29.95
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Photos
From: $ 15.00
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 11.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
$ 38.75
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 149.00
From: $ 38.00
Playfield - Decals
Pinball Mod Co.
There are 3821 posts in this topic. You are on page 26 of 77.

This topic is closed.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside