(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

4 years ago



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  • 3,821 posts
  • 422 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Xerico
  • Topic is favorited by 51 Pinsiders

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There are 3821 posts in this topic. You are on page 25 of 77.
#1201 4 years ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

How is that working out for the 3 founders of Pirate Bay?

Not sure, since they came from Sweden...

So how is life in Canada?

#1202 4 years ago
Quoted from sturner:

why would one partner be liable for the corporation's liabilities and the other two not?

The IRS, lawyers, creditors etc., love to have more than one party holding the bag. The more the merrier in their eyes. Three people just means they have a 2/3's better chance of recovering lost money in a default rather than a entity comprised of one owner.

In the instance of DP USA, there is just Phil because of his social security number. Phil is beholden to DP Euro but the other two are not beholden to DP USA. Their actions at DP Euro directly affect phil at DP USA. At least that is what Phil has stated.

#1203 4 years ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

How is that working out for the 3 founders of Pirate Bay?

Not sure, I thought they were Scandinavian.

22
#1204 4 years ago
Quoted from DutchTommy:

And if you lose the battle, do u really wanna leave this world knowing that u slaughtered off an entire pinball company single handed by ur accusations on your friends,. Think twice wise friend, im for sure u do have regrets upon ur actions around here.. We all know that

Probably one of the most disgusting quotes I've ever read on this site.

#1205 4 years ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

Not sure, I thought they were Scandinavian.

Oh got beat on the return punch.. Damn..

#1206 4 years ago

10,000 posts by Christmas. In before the lock.

#1207 4 years ago

To DP - Best business practice Dissolve DP-USA if that is what needs to be done to let Phil go...but before doing so refund all of the pre order money to US buyers no questions asked.

At least make right to those who believed, including myself, 5500 I've invested in limbo. Let me, and other believers alike decide whether to invest back into DP once ALL of this has been sorted out. I'm feeling pretty screwed here, sucks to be a victim, read Phil's side, silence from DP, creditability as an investor and as a believer is now in single digits. I want out!

#1208 4 years ago
Quoted from rlslick:

To DP - Best business practice Dissolve DP-USA if that is what needs to be done to let Phil go...but before doing so refund all of the pre order money to US buyers no questions asked.

Or at the very least, make a public statement or answer an email.

#1209 4 years ago

Has anybody started a Cliff notes version of this thread for people who were out of town all weekend???

#1210 4 years ago
Quoted from rlslick:

To DP - Best business practice Dissolve DP-USA if that is what needs to be done to let Phil go...but before doing so refund all of the pre order money to US buyers no questions asked.

I agree.. but legit question... without the US company, are US based TBL buyers willing to pay the higher costs and hassles that will come with buying imported games? Or pay the higher costs so that DP can find a domestic distributor? Given the direct sales model they had, one would question if they have the margins built in already to support distribution.

Sadly in the end I imagine all of this will eventually boil down to how much money DP needs to cover to make it all feasible.

#1211 4 years ago

I can't wait to see the hostility boil over into the jpop thread... I'm sure it will... If u havnt got a refund stop being delusional and get one. Then buy it when it's made.. Or if

#1212 4 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

Has anybody started a Cliff notes version of this thread for people who were out of town all weekend???

2 days 6 hours into it, averaging 22 posts an hour since then. Live stream baby! No cliff notes needed, just tune in.

#1213 4 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

BoPv2 is an InsertMedia product, and NEITHER a DP-BV nor DP-USA product?

And TBL money, deposited with DP-BV or DP-USA, was being used to float an InsertMedia product (via its "DP" subsidiary, not a part of either "DP-BV" nor "DP-USA?")????

And that InsertMedia is PRIVATELY OWNED by Barry?

Is that true?
If so, that's a BIG problem, right?

Not necessarily, assuming the transfer of funds was approved by the appropriate parties (i.e. the 2 out of 3 shareholder votes mentioned earlier). It's really an accounting issue - DP books an account receivable & InsertMedia books a corresponding liability. It's the accounting and keeping track of where the money comes from that's important from the perspective of good business management. If it never gets paid back, DP claims a loss and IM claims it as income.

The concepts of "fraud", "theft", etc. aren't really pertinent to this conversation since it IS their money to do with as they please (as hard as that is for those who put deposits down to accept that). Again, as long as DP appropriately approved the transfer (if the 3rd shareholder misappropriated the funds without proper authority, that's another story).

And also remember this is a privately held company. Whatever they do isn't designed to influence the share price and it doesn't result in inaccurate financial reports to shareholders/the world. So it's hard to find a scenario where use of the word "fraud" is appropriate, at least at this point in time. Tax liabilities/implications, sure. But there are perfectly legal ways for them to share funds between companies.

10
#1214 4 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

2 days 6 hours into it, averaging 22 posts an hour since then. Live stream baby! No cliff notes needed, just tune in.

This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps

#1215 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

If u havnt got a refund stop being delusional and get one.

IF what Phil has stated is all true what is the chance that DP has enough money to refund everyone's money? Per Phil, correct me if I took his post out of context, DP had used DPUSA funds for BoP and for travel expenses! If this is the case (speculating) then one would have to assume that DP would not have the funds to fulfill all refund request.

#1216 4 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

Has anybody started a Cliff notes version of this thread for people who were out of town all weekend???

Here:

#1217 4 years ago

This is what happens when you fund a stranger that's an ass!

#1218 4 years ago
Quoted from examiner:

Not necessarily, assuming the transfer of funds was approved by the appropriate parties (i.e. the 2 out of 3 vote mentioned earlier). It's really an accounting issue - DP books an account receivable & InsertMedia books a corresponding liability. It's the accounting and keeping track of where the money comes from that's important from the perspective of good business management. If it never gets paid back, DP claims a loss and IM claims it as income.
The concepts of "fraud", "theft", etc. aren't really pertinent to this conversation since it IS their money to do with as they please (as hard as that is for those who put deposits down to accept that). Again, as long as DP appropriately approved the transfer (if the 3rd shareholder misappropriated the funds without proper authority, that's another story).
And also remember this is a privately held company. Whatever they do isn't designed to influence the share price and it doesn't result in inaccurate financial reports to shareholders/the world. So it's hard to find a scenario where use of the word "fraud" is appropriate, at least at this point in time. Tax liabilities/implications, sure. But there are perfectly legal ways for them to share funds between companies.

Okay, thanks for that.

But InsertMedia would still be required to put the money BACK into the DP-BV and DP-US entities for the purposes of their products (to date, only TBL), right? One couldn't simply channel money from DP-BV/-US to InsertMedia without expecting some recompensation back into DP-BV/-US, right?

#1219 4 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

2 days 6 hours into it, averaging 22 posts an hour since then. Live stream baby! No cliff notes needed, just tune in.

Haha, it was worth a shot. I will be reading for the next 3 hours!

#1220 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

This is what happens when you fund a stranger that's an ass!

...and that was worth creating a new account for???

#1221 4 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

One couldn't simply channel money from DP-BV/-US to InsertMedia without expecting some recompensation back into DP-BV/-US, right?

DP USA would hold a note presumably.

#1222 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

...and that was worth creating a new account for???

Yeah, but an awesome name though..

#1223 4 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

Okay, thanks for that.
But InsertMedia would still be required to put the money BACK into the DP-BV and DP-US entities for the purposes of their products (to date, only TBL), right? One couldn't simply channel money from DP-BV/-US to InsertMedia without expecting some recompensation back into DP-BV/-US, right?

That's what an accounts payable is. By Insert Media booking that liability to DP, they owe DP that money. Just think of it as DP giving Insert Media a short term loan (less than one year).

#1224 4 years ago

TBL-RIP
"Good night, sweet prince."
donnie-s-ashes-o.gif

-13
#1225 4 years ago
Quoted from Spankey:

Probably one of the most disgusting quotes I've ever read on this site.

And i describe this whole thread disgusting as an whole, thank you very much

#1226 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

...and that was worth creating a new account for???

It's not a very new account I just don't post. This party seems so fun though.

#1227 4 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

But InsertMedia would still be required to put the money BACK into the DP-BV and DP-US entities for the purposes of their products (to date, only TBL), right? One couldn't simply channel money from DP-BV/-US to InsertMedia without expecting some recompensation back into DP-BV/-US, right?

Depends on what the shareholders agree to. There's no obligation for them to do so, as long as they account for it properly on their taxes (and I have no knowledge of Dutch tax laws).

Realistically, DP could take 100% of the deposit money and loan/give it to anybody else for any reason they want. It only becomes a problem if they fail to deliver the product that you've paid for......

#1228 4 years ago

They making just one version of TBL and the only benefit in preordering is to get the game sooner?

15
#1229 4 years ago

Dear VIPs,

We want to reach out to you about the current situation involving the rumours on Pinside. We are aware of the thread and the worries over Dutch Pinball and The Big Lebowski project. It really hurts us that you are involved in this situation, which is something that should be settled in a professional, business manner. Unfortunately, we had no control over our customers being involved and we regret what is happening now. We want to assure you that we are very busy handling this situation privately and in the best possible way without discrediting anyone. As soon as we can share more information publicly, we will do so.

We know there has also been some recent speculation regarding the status of our very exciting pinball project and want to assure everyone that everything is under control without any problems. To that end, we have brought in Roger Sharpe, acclaimed licensing and marketing expert, to help us as we continue with our final approval process. Roger has extensive experience having worked on all of the Williams and Bally pinball licensing for over 12 1/2 years and his personal relationships with all of the movie studios ensures that we are right on target to bring everyone the best possible pinball product. Our apologies for any concerns that had been raised but know we are still on course and will continue to meet our deadlines and promises.

Please keep in mind that we are the guys that brought three awesome prototypes to Expo in October and to Modern Pinball NYC last weekend. We wouldn't been doing that if we had any bad intentions or wanted to defraud anyone. The only reason this is happening now is because of something that shouldn't be discussed publicly.

Again, we want to make an awesome game - and with this going on, we are even more motivated to do so.

We will answer all of your emails in the next couple of days/weeks, but we first need to deal with this situation and keep our focus on getting you your games.

Team Dutch Pinball

#1230 4 years ago

Received an uninitiated refund and that first e-mail to the VIPs. This just hit my inbox as the 2nd official communication. Enjoy.

"
Dear VIPs,

We want to reach out to you about the current situation involving the rumours on Pinside. We are aware of the thread and the worries over Dutch Pinball and The Big Lebowski project. It really hurts us that you are involved in this situation, which is something that should be settled in a professional, business manner. Unfortunately, we had no control over our customers being involved and we regret what is happening now. We want to assure you that we are very busy handling this situation privately and in the best possible way without discrediting anyone. As soon as we can share more information publicly, we will do so.

We know there has also been some recent speculation regarding the status of our very exciting pinball project and want to assure everyone that everything is under control without any problems. To that end, we have brought in Roger Sharpe, acclaimed licensing and marketing expert, to help us as we continue with our final approval process. Roger has extensive experience having worked on all of the Williams and Bally pinball licensing for over 12 1/2 years and his personal relationships with all of the movie studios ensures that we are right on target to bring everyone the best possible pinball product. Our apologies for any concerns that had been raised but know we are still on course and will continue to meet our deadlines and promises.

Please keep in mind that we are the guys that brought three awesome prototypes to Expo in October and to Modern Pinball NYC last weekend. We wouldn't been doing that if we had any bad intentions or wanted to defraud anyone. The only reason this is happening now is because of something that shouldn't be discussed publicly.

Again, we want to make an awesome game - and with this going on, we are even more motivated to do so.

We will answer all of your emails in the next couple of days/weeks, but we first need to deal with this situation and keep our focus on getting you your games.

Team Dutch Pinball
?

#1231 4 years ago

VIP's check ur inboxes

#1232 4 years ago

DP are bringing in Roger Sharpe to handle Uni licensing issues.

#1233 4 years ago

And there it is...

#1234 4 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

DP are bringing in Roger Sharpe to handle Uni licensing issues.

First of the other side

11
#1235 4 years ago
Quoted from Nog:

Received an uninitiated refund and that first e-mail to the VIPs. This just hit my inbox as the 2nd official communication. Enjoy.
"
Dear VIPs,
We want to reach out to you about the current situation involving the rumours on Pinside. We are aware of the thread and the worries over Dutch Pinball and The Big Lebowski project. It really hurts us that you are involved in this situation, which is something that should be settled in a professional, business manner. Unfortunately, we had no control over our customers being involved and we regret what is happening now. We want to assure you that we are very busy handling this situation privately and in the best possible way without discrediting anyone. As soon as we can share more information publicly, we will do so.
We know there has also been some recent speculation regarding the status of our very exciting pinball project and want to assure everyone that everything is under control without any problems. To that end, we have brought in Roger Sharpe, acclaimed licensing and marketing expert, to help us as we continue with our final approval process. Roger has extensive experience having worked on all of the Williams and Bally pinball licensing for over 12 1/2 years and his personal relationships with all of the movie studios ensures that we are right on target to bring everyone the best possible pinball product. Our apologies for any concerns that had been raised but know we are still on course and will continue to meet our deadlines and promises.
Please keep in mind that we are the guys that brought three awesome prototypes to Expo in October and to Modern Pinball NYC last weekend. We wouldn't been doing that if we had any bad intentions or wanted to defraud anyone. The only reason this is happening now is because of something that shouldn't be discussed publicly.
Again, we want to make an awesome game - and with this going on, we are even more motivated to do so.
We will answer all of your emails in the next couple of days/weeks, but we first need to deal with this situation and keep our focus on getting you your games.
Team Dutch Pinball
?

This situation is of course unfortunate, but this is the proper way to handle the communication with the public IMO.

#1236 4 years ago

I had already wondered what Roger would have thought of this, bravo DP, still no answer to if our refund funds are secure and attainable.

Rod

#1237 4 years ago

Yeah, that's not gonna cut it for me. I'm out. I really wanted to hold in there, and that non-answer isn't enough for me.

#1238 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I agree.. but legit question... without the US company, are US based TBL buyers willing to pay the higher costs and hassles that will come with buying imported games? Or pay the higher costs so that DP can find a domestic distributor? Given the direct sales model they had, one would question if they have the margins built in already to support distribution.
Sadly in the end I imagine all of this will eventually boil down to how much money DP needs to cover to make it all feasible.

If they do not build in the US then yes, we would be hit with the higher fees having to ship TBL from overseas.

If DP doesn't get their shit together and Phil presses a lawsuit against DP, think about the publicity this will stir! Universal will want out and likely dissolve the license. There will be no pin to ship period. I want this game built as badly as many others do...but at this moment I want my money back to decide if I want to opt in again. Plenty of damage control DP will need to rebuild if they are to build and ship a single unit. Like playing the lotto, ODD's are definitely against us pre-owners with the way things have unfolded.

#1239 4 years ago

They can bring in whoever they want. They're going to have to move forward without my money. If they get the game built, I will buy one then. I'm off this preorder train.

#1240 4 years ago

Roger Sharpe=good!

#1241 4 years ago

Makes me feel a little better, but they have not answered Phil's allegations yet. You think after everything said, they would have defended themselves against Phil's claims if they were not true.

#1242 4 years ago

Translation:

Dear VIPs,

Name drop, experience drop, cover our asses, and let us not forget....
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu2.jpg

#1243 4 years ago

New VIP newsletter is definitely a strong step in the right direction. Involving Roger Sharpe is a reassuring move given the rumoured licensing issue. I'm still in for now.

#1244 4 years ago

Rumours? I would say this had gone way beyond rumours.

#1245 4 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

Yeah, that's not gonna cut it for me. I'm out. I really wanted to hold in there, and that non-answer isn't enough for me.

What else can they say, tell us please !?

#1246 4 years ago

Roger Sharp is the king of Licensing!

#1247 4 years ago

Considering how many of the pin community (and their perspective buyers) are here, a letter to VIPs seems not really public. It is a private communication. How should someone that hasn't ordered but was considering ordering think about communication, when there has been no communication publicly. Pinsiders posting a private e-mail does not a public communication make.

22
#1248 4 years ago
Quoted from Nog:

To that end, we have brought in Roger Sharpe, acclaimed licensing and marketing expert, to help us as we continue with our final approval process.

Dutch Pinball has called in The Wolf!

the-wolf-pulp-fiction.jpg

#1249 4 years ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

Makes me feel a little better, but they have not answered Phil's allegations yet. You think after everything said, they would have defended themselves against Phil's claims if they were not true.

They (allegations) can be all true, part true or all false but the best thing for DP to do, IMO, take it all in and think before responding.

11
#1250 4 years ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

but they have not answered Phil's allegations yet.

I think the tone of their e-mail makes it pretty clear that they do not wish to engage Phil on the pinside forums. Addressing the licensing concerns is the step they needed to take publicly. The rest of the grievances they have with Phil do not need to be aired on a public forum.

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