(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

5 years ago



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#901 5 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

Yes, there are laws against slander (oral statements) and libel (written statements). However, the affirmative defense to both claims is universal: Truth. Making true statements, no matter how damaging, is not libelous.

Phil good morning from this side of the planet.

Can you please tell is simply how to start getting our refunds - is it all in dp's hands as they have the list and by the sounds of it the funds now as well?

Rod

#902 5 years ago

Sorry cenobistite,
Just the stories would be concerning . Th meltdown is him touching the money. Maybe it cultural but here in the states you give two weeks notice but everyone knows within minutes security is escorting you out and every passcode is changed.
It's not the 24 hours but the time since leaving and this not being resolved that says they are flying by their sweatpants instead of handling important things .
The rest is believable based on this basic stupidity!

14
#904 5 years ago

Barry has control of the whole dutchpinball.com domain, and after I left, he locked me out of my email account, which is ok, but I just found out this morning that he used my old email address to create a new PayPal account.

So, anyone thinking they were making payments towards their account with Dutch Pinball USA Inc. has actually been paying directly to Barry.

That's why no payments have come to DP USA in December. From the customer's perspective everything looks normal.

***PAYMENTS MADE TO MY OLD EMAIL (PHIL@) SHOW UP AS PAYPAL *PHIL AND ARE NOT DP USA!***

The real Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. account with the Tax IDs is G88R6QGWR8T7A.

Barry, you've cut off my access to the account list, taken my email address to open a new account, are taking all the new payments to DP USA, BUT ARE STILL LEAVING ME WITH THE LIABILITY FOR EVERY SINGLE PAYMENT?

WTF DUDE. Is THIS why you've been stalling me for SIX WEEKS? And you KNEW I had oncology on November 24 and was on "vacation" until at least January. This is a new level of LOW.

Someone, anyone that knows Barry and Jaap: Let them know. Either these guys take full control of this company, so it doesn't matter where the funds are deposited, and they can legally stick the cash in their mattresses for all I care, or I am officially filing a complaint with IC3.gov for this.

Now you all know why I went public. It was the only way to find out what the hell was going on.

Screen Shot 2014-12-15 at 12.48.48.png emailconfirmation-694.jpg
#905 5 years ago

BTW: someone better explain to them what IC3.gov is, and my phone better ring today, Barry.

Now I am pissed.

17
#906 5 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

Barry has control of the whole dutchpinball.com domain, and after I left, he locked me out of my email account, which is ok, but I just found out this morning that he used my old email address to create a new PayPal account.
So, anyone thinking they were making payments towards their account with Dutch Pinball USA Inc. has actually been paying directly to Barry.
That's why no payments have come to DP USA in December. From the customer's perspective everything looks normal.
***PAYMENTS MADE TO MY OLD EMAIL (PHIL@) SHOW UP AS PAYPAL *PHIL AND ARE NOT DP USA!***
The real Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. account with the Tax IDs is G88R6QGWR8T7A.
Barry, you've cut off my access to the account list, taken my email address to open a new account, are taking all the new payments to DP USA, BUT ARE STILL LEAVING ME WITH THE LIABILITY FOR EVERY SINGLE PAYMENT?
WTF DUDE. Is THIS why you've been stalling me for SIX WEEKS? And you KNEW I had oncology on November 24 and was on "vacation" until at least January. This is a new level of LOW.
Someone, anyone that knows Barry and Jaap: Let them know. Either these guys take full control of this company, so it doesn't matter where the funds are deposited, and they can legally stick the cash in their mattresses for all I care, or I am officially filing a complaint with IC3.gov for this.
Now you all know why I went public. It was the only way to find out what the hell was going on.

Screen Shot 2014-12-15 at 12.48.... 26 KB

emailconfirmation-694.jpg 61 KB

Wow... How does anyone still need to wait for the other side of the story?

#907 5 years ago

It's good to hear they cut you off but equally concerning that they would then use your name . It's a mess. Plain and simple. Barry will have to tell a basic side of whats up, ship bop 2 stateside and then show they can continue on TBL before recovering and getting back on pace.
Losing a big part of the team was concerning because we all knew it has impact from our own experiences. This is exactly what the original shock feared. A small company dealing with this big a change in its direction.

#908 5 years ago

Ic3.gov is a group made up partially by the FBI!
Not something anyone should take lightly

#909 5 years ago

Latka,
please read the last sentence.

Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

that Barry had taken the €60,000. Jaap and I realized that we had no choice but to put back the money ourselves. I started buying parts from all over the world on my credit cards. Shipped stuff on my personal fedex account. all to cover his theft.
...

Quoted from pinballslave:

...Does it help you family? ...

He makes it clear, he is protecting his family from future harm.

Yes, by refunding money, those specific customers will not sue his family in a court of law.

#910 5 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

Barry has control of the whole dutchpinball.com domain, and after I left, he locked me out of my email account, which is ok, but I just found out this morning that he used my old email address to create a new PayPal account.
So, anyone thinking they were making payments towards their account with Dutch Pinball USA Inc. has actually been paying directly to Barry.
That's why no payments have come to DP USA in December. From the customer's perspective everything looks normal.
***PAYMENTS MADE TO MY OLD EMAIL (PHIL@) SHOW UP AS PAYPAL *PHIL AND ARE NOT DP USA!***
The real Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. account with the Tax IDs is G88R6QGWR8T7A.
Barry, you've cut off my access to the account list, taken my email address to open a new account, are taking all the new payments to DP USA, BUT ARE STILL LEAVING ME WITH THE LIABILITY FOR EVERY SINGLE PAYMENT?
WTF DUDE. Is THIS why you've been stalling me for SIX WEEKS? And you KNEW I had oncology on November 24 and was on "vacation" until at least January. This is a new level of LOW.
Someone, anyone that knows Barry and Jaap: Let them know. Either these guys take full control of this company, so it doesn't matter where the funds are deposited, and they can legally stick the cash in their mattresses for all I care, or I am officially filing a complaint with IC3.gov for this.
Now you all know why I went public. It was the only way to find out what the hell was going on.

Screen Shot 2014-12-15 at 12.48.... 26 KB

emailconfirmation-694.jpg 61 KB

Before you do all of that, would it be possible to get a refund from my two deposits made September 27, 2014?

Thank you.

#911 5 years ago

Wow, and still no reaction from 'the other side of the world'.............

#912 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

Wow, and still no reaction from 'the other side of the world'.............

There's only one thing for them to do - talk to Phil direct. Relieve him of everything and send him on his way. Then pick up the pieces.

#913 5 years ago

SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM TO CALL ME.

Screen Shot 2014-12-15 at 13.50.00.png
#914 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

There's only one thing for them to do - talk to Phil direct. Relieve him of everything and send him on his way. Then pick up the pieces.

Totally agree

#915 5 years ago

Phil,
Calm down. Things are out now. Give them a day to get back you and sort out a game plan.

#916 5 years ago

He's still my friend, and I still car about his family. I'm sitting here crying my eyes out becaus of what iu have to do.

barry please

please

#917 5 years ago

This is a really messed up situation and I feel bad for all of you stuck in limbo until this gets resolved.

As for your situation Phil, it sounds like you should really have a lawyer, don't you think?

Good luck to all of you.

#918 5 years ago

this is my credit history, and if i die, my shares in dP USA go to my wife and kids. i wont give them this burden. dont make me choose!!!!!!

answer your fiucking phone or i will report you for fraud man

14
#919 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Phil,
Calm down. Things are out now. Give them a day to get back you and sort out a game plan.

IF this is all true, I wouldn't wait any more time at all before talking to counsel about options including dp USA bankruptcy, ic3, etc. Whatever limits my own liability both financial and criminal. Its Monday morning, time to make that call.

#920 5 years ago

Maybe message Barry in Dutch?

. Will IC3 have jurisdiction over a non US citizen?

#921 5 years ago
Quoted from btw75:

IF this is all true, I wouldn't wait any more time at all before talking to counsel about options including dp USA bankruptcy, ic3, etc. Whatever limits my own liability both financial and criminal. Its Monday morning, time to make that call.

Totally agree.

-1
#922 5 years ago
Quoted from donl:

Tick tock.

Where's Barry?

not in this place , I surely hope he's still got his mouth attached to his brain...

-1
#923 5 years ago
Quoted from donl:

Tick tock.

Where's Barry?

not in this place , I surely hope HE's still got his mouth attached to his brain...

#924 5 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM TO CALL ME.

I think you burned that bridge some 24 hours ago...

23
#925 5 years ago

Hi Phil,

I think the whole "we're all friends and I want to make my customers whole" thing is admirable, but realistically that ship has sailed. Get yourself an attorney if you don't already have one and stop posting here. While you are correct that the truth is a perfect defense, you've said quite a bit here and you're obviously emotionally compromised. Take a step back, start unwinding DP USA and stop doing things that might allow Barry and your customers to pierce the corporate veil. If your attorney is advising you to try and settle this on pinside, fire him and get another one.

Wish you luck. Nothing in the pinball world is ever simple it seems. I hope it all works out.

Cheers

#926 5 years ago

Surely Barry knows what is going on here? Why on earth is he not answering his phone? Wow.

It's called 'damage limitation' and every hour that goes by the worse it gets.

#927 5 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

Now I am pissed.

only now..

31
#928 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

It's good to hear they cut you off but equally concerning that they would then use your name .

It's more than the fact they are using phils name. The underlying issue is the fact they willfully created a new PayPal account under DP USA. Phils issue with that is his social is attached to the PayPal account used by DP USA. To go further, Phil's issue with DP Euro withdrawing money from DP USA is the fact that they don't have any obligatory responsibilities to DP USA. DP Euro can bankrupt DP USA but not be on the hook to provide any good or services for said money. In essence, people would be forced to sue Phil for fraud. Phil is in a terrible position and people defending DP Euro clearly lack even a rudimentary understanding of business liability. What I find most troubling if true, is DP euro created a new DP usa account still using phil's tax Id number (tin) or his social AFTER Phil quit. One has to seriously question DP euro's intentions by continuing to leave Phil on the hook for a company he's frozen out of on all other fronts.

The silence on DP euro's part is inexcusable and unbelievable. Enough with travel excuses. The company has been shaken to its core. There is no time to gather yourself. No time to put spin on anything. The truth only needs someone's mouth to start moving to be told. Who at DP euro is going to start us off...

**this isn't directed at you hwawonya. I just grabbed the first post in context.**

-17
#929 5 years ago

i've bitten my tounge throughout this thread, but just can't resist anymore...

phil, what you've done in the last couple of days, w the refunds and your posts on pinside is the single most unprofessional thing I've ever witnessed in business, EVER. seriously man, not even just in the pinball business, but in the history of business across the board. you did it, you acheived this status which makes you completely worthless in the job market going forward. who the hell would ever trust you to handle anything related to their company? regardless of whether DP is legit or a fraud, your actions have shown me personally that you are a liability at all levels. finance, marketing, and most importantly... loyalty.

why wouldn't you handle this the way any other sane business person would? get a lawyer! if you're truly that concerned about you're own safety and well-being, that's what a professional does. when this inevidibly hits the legal stage, and you have to actually seek counsel, what do you think your lawyer's going to say when you tell him/her that you issued unrequested refunds, went public about your feelings on a pinball forum, and dragged your ex-employers' names through the mud??? he/she won't want to go near that case. you've made yourself look like a spoiled 12 yo girl who didn't get a pony for her birthday, so she's holding her breath, stomping her foot and telling the neighbors that her daddy touched her.

what you've done is an intentional character assassination w a obvious vendetta, all disguised as a Robin Hood scheme. me, nor my money will ever go anywhere near anything you're even slightly involved in, and I suggest that pinsiders follow my lead.

the real question is, how the hell did you get hired in the first place?!?

#930 5 years ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

...Does it help you family? ...

He makes it clear, he is protecting his family from future harm.

Yes, by refunding money, those specific customers will not sue his family in a court of law.

You have quoted me out of context! I wasn't asking how the refunds help his family, I was asking how implying that Barry is a thief is helping his family... Do you think it's fair to quote people out of context and pretend they're asking a different question?

This is what I said:

Quoted from pinballslave:

The implication is that it was taken illegitimately.... i.e. stolen! This is very clear from what he said... why even comment on him taking money? I ask Phil again: What/who is this statement helping?? Does it help you? Does it help you family?

Even the typo 'you' instead of 'your' is there... so I clearly am NOT asking is returning the money protecting his family... if you're going to quote someone, please quote the whole thing or you make people look like idiots.

OK, some mails back Phil said that he had asked Barry permission to write a nice letter explaining to everyone why he was making the refund and urging them to stick in and redirect their deposits to DP NL... Barry didn't reply... Phil then did what he did (without Barry's permission)... why is it necessary to need permission to do it the nice way, but fine to do it the nasty way without permission??

#931 5 years ago

My advice:

To Phil - Get an attorney and do not post any longer on Pinside or anywhere else for that matter.

Investors in this Project - Get Out while You Can

No matter who is right, I cannot see this game getting made..at least within this decade.

#932 5 years ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

what you've done is a intentional character assassination w a obvious vendetta, all disguised as a Robin Hood scheme. me, nor my money will ever go anywhere near anything you're even slightly involved in, and I suggest that pinsiders follow my lead.

finally, sanity is being shown on pinside slowly but surely.. thank god..

I truly hope enough stay on board to keep thing moving forward like it should

#933 5 years ago

This situation is extremely unprofessional. This is a company matter not something you expose part of on the Internet to slight people against your own company. If any of you think that leaving a company that you helped create, operated as a international organization can be simply walked away from, your crazy. If he truly wanted to leave the company he should have done it in a professional manner and set up everything prior to leaving. Even if the current owners did not want to or are too lazy to, he should have set everything up for them transfer funds as needed and leave the company in a healthy state. At this point he is doing irrevocable damage which is completely unneeded, leaving himself vulinerable, and creating constrination that is uncalled for. If your an adult enough to start a company and be in charge of funds, get your act together, be responsible and when you decide you can't hack it anymore do the proper thing and leave the company in a safe and sound state. I hate it when people just throw their hands up and walk away. Phil was once in a position to handle the funds of the company, he could have left the company in a manner that did not damage his reputation and more importantly the reputation of dp.

#934 5 years ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

i've bitten my tounge throughout this thread, but just can't resist anymore...
phil, what you've done in the last couple of days, w the refunds and your posts on pinside is the single most unprofessional thing I've ever witnessed in business, EVER. seriously man, not even just in the pinball business, but in the history of business across the board. you did it, you acheived this status which makes you completely worthless in the job market going forward. who the hell would ever trust you to handle anything related to their company? regardless of whether DP is legit or a fraud, your actions have shown me personally that you are a liability at all levels. finance, marketing, and most importantly... loyalty.
why wouldn't you handle this the way any other sane business person would? get a lawyer! if you're truly that concerned about you're own safety and well-being, that's what a professional does. when this inevidibly hits the legal stage, and you have to actually seek counsel, what do you think your lawyer's going to say when you tell him/her that you issued unrequested refunds, went public about your feelings on a pinball forum, and dragged your ex-employers' names through the mud??? he/she won't want to go near that case. you've made yourself look like a spoiled 12 yo girl who didn't get a pony for her birthday, so she's holding her breath, stomping her foot and telling the neighbors that her daddy touched her.
what you've done is an intentional character assassination w a obvious vendetta, all disguised as a Robin Hood scheme. me, nor my money will ever go anywhere near anything you're even slightly involved in, and I suggest that pinsiders follow my lead.
the real question is, how the hell did you get hired in the first place?!?

Finally someone who really sees it for what it is...

-1
#935 5 years ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

spoiled 12 yo girl who didn't get a pony for her birthday, so she's holding her breath, stomping her foot and telling the neighbors that her daddy touched her.

Classic man, I'll have to remember that one!

Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

this is my credit history, and if i die, my shares in dP USA go to my wife and kids. i wont give them this burden. dont make me choose!!!!!!

answer your fiucking phone or i will report you for fraud man

Maybe you should have done it the nice way dude, even if Barry didn't say OK... ?

#936 5 years ago

I would love a TBL but there is no way in hell I am pre ordering one.
When and if DP make the games, get a distributor in Australia and ship them here for us to play/buy then I will consider buying one. Same goes for TH and Alien and any other game from any other company for that matter.
This lunacy has to stop.

#937 5 years ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

finally, sanity is being shown on pinside slowly but surely.. thank god..

I truly hope enough stay on board to keep thing moving forward like it should

You applaud sanity and encourage insanity all within 2 lines. Hmm... Regardless of who's right or wrong (seems to me there are mostly degrees of wrong on all DP parties) how you could possibly suggest someone keeps their money in on this is beyond me?

#938 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

You applaud sanity and encourage insanity all within 2 lines. Hmm... Regardless of who's right or wrong (seems to me there are mostly degrees of wrong on all DP parties) how you could possibly suggest someone keeping their money in on this is beyond me?

Because a lot of the stuff ventilated was done so by a man who is clearly clouded by his emotions? Because this whole endeavor deserves some REAL investigating before people jump off ship like a chicken with his head cut off? Because in the end, DP might just go under BECAUSE of all the damages done by these accusations and wild rants and people jumping ship because of it?

#939 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

This situation is extremely unprofessional.

The presentation at Expo was extremely unprofessional. What's so surprising?

I'm the first one to drop the F bomb. But there's always a time and a place.

#940 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

how you could possibly suggest someone keeps their money in on this is beyond me?

To keep the project alive, despite all that's going on here... maybe he wants a TBL for some reason...

#941 5 years ago

I'm pretty sure if DP tanks, there will be a few pinsiders that are thankful for getting their unrequested refunds. If Phil did decide to hire a lawyer(or 2 or 3 because he would probably need representation in Europe as well), that would obviously put the entire project at risk as well as any refunds. In the end, lawyer fees would come from where; game deposits? As soon as lawyers get involved, this thing is dead in the water. Actually, I think it already is..........

#942 5 years ago

Who runs this email address? dutchpinballusa@gmail.com

I just checked the PayPal this morning to see if my two requests for refunds on deposits was updated. They both are still "Waiting For Seller's Response". The Sellers Email for "Dutch Pinball USA, Inc." use to point to a gmail account with Phils name. It now points to dutchpinballusa@gmail.com.

#943 5 years ago

SPomift.gif

#944 5 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

I'm sitting here crying my eyes out becaus of what iu have to do.

Hey, There's no crying in pinball.!!

#945 5 years ago

If TBL tanks, and I don't think it will, it will be in large part to Phil's recent actions.

You can't set a building on fire, pull a few people out and then claim to be a hero.

38
#946 5 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

If TBL tanks, and I don't think it will, it will be in large part to Phil's recent actions.
You can't set a building on fire, pull a few people out and then claim to be a hero.

poor analogy...

To me it sounds more like the building was already engulfed in flames and everyone was on sleeping pills and Phil was kind enough to yell "FIRE" and pull out who he could while putting himself in more danger the whole time.

Sounds like a hero to me?

#947 5 years ago
Quoted from edmorex:

Who runs this email address? dutchpinballusa@gmail.com
I just checked the PayPal this morning to see if my two requests for refunds on deposits was updated. They both are still "Waiting For Seller's Response". The Sellers Email for "Dutch Pinball USA, Inc." use to point to a gmail account with Phils name. It now points to dutchpinballusa@gmail.com.

Don't know about that, my payment made 12/4 has this on file:

Business Name: Dutch Pinball BV (The recipient of this payment is Non-U.S. - Unverified)
Email: paypal@dutchpinball.com
Payment Sent to: phil@dutchpinball.com

Rod

#948 5 years ago

Perhaps I haven't read it right. But I thought Phil gave them the chance to react before this went public here?

#949 5 years ago

Phil, you say you want to clear out the DP-USA paypal account,
And all of the money in there is pre-order money, yes?

So, why isn't just ONE phone call needed to paypal, and say,
"Hey, please refund every deposit back to whoever sent it?"
they know exactly who sent it, even if you don't.

and that account should have a zero balance within 24 hrs, if not sooner.
And then you can close it, what am I missing??

#950 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

steigerpijp said:
finally, sanity is being shown on pinside slowly but surely.. thank god..

I truly hope enough stay on board to keep thing moving forward like it should

You applaud sanity and encourage insanity all within 2 lines. Hmm... Regardless of who's right or wrong (seems to me there are mostly degrees of wrong on all DP parties) how you could possibly suggest someone keeps their money in on this is beyond me?

Easy, I am glad some people see the crazy rant Phil is putting on for what it is, and I want to get my hands on a TBL sooner rather than later, I can file for a refund, but im not, because nothing so far has made me feel like aaaarghhh, get me my money back..

If im wrong, im wrong, but to me thats a pre order risk Im taking and i will judge if i can take that one myself. I was fully aware when i entered that money needs to be spent on the project to get it along, so for now, im sitting back.

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