(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

4 years ago



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There are 3821 posts in this topic. You are on page 14 of 77.
#651 4 years ago
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

Read the email from the post right after this quote...Phil was ok with DP draining the US funds as long as his name was off of it. Thoughts?

Phil recognized he ultimately did not have authority over DP, BV, the European entity. Only DP, USA, which has his name all over it. So over the entity with which he has formal responsibility, he said no. It doesn't mean he approves/disapproves over what DP, BV did with ITS funds (though I'm fairly sure he disapproved...), just that it was out of his sphere of control.

And he actually was actively pursuing getting DP, USA ALSO out of his sphere of control, but couldn't get DP, BV to take it over.

At least that's how I read it.

Post edited by Rick432: Edited to correct "DP, USA" should have been "DP, BV" at end of second paragraph. Now corrected.

#652 4 years ago

How did you dispute it? My payments were both Sept 27th.

#653 4 years ago

If anyone can get through to Barry, please tell him to just take this company already.

I really don't like the path he's forcing me down. He won't take my calls. He won't reply on iMessage. He won't reply via email.

It's so damned simple. He has the paperwork filled out.

I really don't get why he doesn't want to assume the liability for Dutch Pinball USA.

And I don't want to turn this into a fight over the other stuff - licensing / Bride. It's about one thing. I left DP USA, and I'm stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars in a big pot, but no customer list / spoon to serve it back.

#654 4 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

Phil recognized he ultimately did not have authority over DP, BV, the European entity. Only DP, USA, which has his name all over it. So over the entity with which he has formal responsibility, he said no. It doesn't mean he approves/disapproves over what DP, BV did with ITS funds (though I'm fairly sure he disapproved...), just that it was out of his sphere of control.

And he actually was actively pursuing getting DP, USA ALSO out of his sphere of control, but couldn't get DP, USA to take it over.

At least that's how I read it.

Nail, you've just been hit head on.

#655 4 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

Where is the risk? You can always get a refund up until the game ships.

And how do you do that? You just ask, and it comes? I believe people have asked for a refund up to a week ago and heard nothing. Yes, Phil's been issuing refunds without people asking for them, but for the rest of us who didn't get a refund through Phil, I can't see DP coughing up... maybe I'm wrong... I certainly haven't tried to get a refund yet... Although my wife is pushing me to ask for one... I still want the pin... bailing out isn't going to help make that happen... Saying that, if I had got a refund through Phil, I'd probably hang on to it!!

#656 4 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

How did you dispute it? My payments were both Sept 27th.

PayPal wouldn't let me open a normal ticket because of the 45 day limit so for my 2 deposits I checked the "I want to report a transaction that I didn't authorize or was transacted in error" option, and then in the description wrote that it was for requesting the transactions be refunded.

Right now, both of items say "Awaiting other party's response".

-5
#657 4 years ago

Since you're destroying the entire company and liquidating the assets.. Where is his motivation now?

#658 4 years ago

Any refund that I cannot do automatically, I email to PayPal's MRO customer service, and ask them to do manually. It takes a bit longer, and I have lots to get through.

19
#660 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Since you're tearing down the entire company and liquidating the assets.. Where is his motivation now?

I can legally close a PayPal account with a zero balance.

If I give everyone their money back, they can repurchase through Barry's new PayPal account. I just don't want the liability.

#661 4 years ago

I tried to open a dispute and it closes immediately because I paid too long ago.

#662 4 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

I can legally close a PayPal account with a zero balance.

So sounds like you're going to keep going till DP USA account is dry? And you said you didn't have a full customer list so are you relying on people to dispute at this point to get it to zero?

#663 4 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

I tried to open a dispute and it closes immediately because I paid too long ago.

I had the same issue. Use the option: "I want to report a transaction that I didn't authorize or was transacted in error".

#664 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Since you're destroying the entire company and liquidating the assets..

That's what you do when you are getting out of business, if you can't sell it or merge it with another company, you liquidate the assets. He tried to sell/merge DP USA, but couldn't. So he's liquidating. Exactly as he should.

Edit: I am not clear on who all the owners of DP USA are/were

#665 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

And how do you do that? You just ask, and it comes? I believe people have asked for a refund up to a week ago and heard nothing. Yes, Phil's been issuing refunds without people asking for them, but for the rest of us who didn't get a refund through Phil, I can't see DP coughing up... maybe I'm wrong... I certainly haven't tried to get a refund yet... Although my wife is pushing me to ask for one... I still want the pin... bailing out isn't going to help make that happen... Saying that, if I had got a refund through Phil, I'd probably hang on to it!!

Listen to ur wife... If shit goes wrong she will hang it over ur head lol

-1
#666 4 years ago

Phil:

Can you at least confirm that you have sent my email address to PayPal for a refund then? If you cannot do it automatically. I have sent it to you via a PM and IM on Facebook. It is:

millardb@frontiernet.net

I paid both payments September 27th. My $2k was at 20:52:28 PDT and my $2.5k was at 20:25:46 PDT. I can provide you with the confirm (item) numbers for each transaction also if needed.

#667 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Tell me again why I should pre-order a pinball machine?

Because not having a clue if you'll get your money or machine is a fun gamble? Who wouldn't love that stress? lol /sarcasm

-14
#668 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Funny... I thought people loved folks like wiki leaks or snowden. I guess it depends on who they are outting to some people

I don't like people like Snowden. They tend to reveal lots of secrets trying to prove their point, hurting lots of other people along the way. In Snowden's case this has been proven already. The big picture is not the goal anymore, it's trying to prove YOU are right, not caring about the fallout for all other people conceirned. We still haven't seen any concrete proof here, just a bunch of onesided accusations. And it's a pity how some people here take only that info to blow it all up to Hiroshima proportions without even waiting for a reply from the other side of this vicious fight. It's been 24 hours, FGS...

#669 4 years ago

More drama than a Delta Gamma lesbian breakup

#670 4 years ago

Regardless the outcome of all of this, I am glad Phil is not making the customers eat it and give them the choice to stay or bail. Let me know what info you need to help speed things up.

#671 4 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

He won't take my calls. He won't reply on iMessage. He won't reply via email.

Shocking, really.

It is extremely clear that the two sides are no longer able to negotiate.
Perhaps mediators are the next step.

#672 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

That's what you do when you are getting out of business, if you can't sell it or merge it with another company, you liquidate the assets. He tried to sell/merge DP USA, but couldn't. So he's liquidating. Exactly as he should.

Agreed. Sounds like some of these guys can clearly make a cool pinball, but lack business sense on such a massive level this pin may never come out. People tend to forget you can't just simply design the pin and thats it. Their is funding, support, marketing, sales etc.

#673 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

I don't like people like Snowden. They tend to reveal lots of secrets trying to prove their point, hurting lots of other people along the way. In Snowden's case this has been proven already. The big picture is not the goal anymore, it's trying to prove YOU are right, not caring about the fallout for all other people conceirned. We still haven't seen any concrete proof here, just a bunch of onesided accusations. And it's a pity how some people here take only that info to blow it all up to Hiroshima proportions without even waiting for a reply from the other side of this vicious fight. It's been 24 hours, FGS...

The best part of this situation isn't a story about the issues, it's the story that a guy is giving back people their money!!!!!!! Regardless of why, it's the only comforting outcome

#674 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

The best part of this situation isn't a story about the issues, it's the story that a guy is giving back people their money!!!!!!! Regardless of why, it's the only comforting outcome

For some people in the states and canada but what about everywhere else in the world. They all may or may not get screwed depending if the game ever comes out.

12
#675 4 years ago

edit stayed in

#676 4 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

More drama than a Delta Gamma lesbian breakup

I dated a DG in college . She was a "thirsty bitch"

-2
#677 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

The best part of this situation isn't a story about the issues, it's the story that a guy is giving back people their money!!!!!!! Regardless of why, it's the only comforting outcome

Bullshit...

#678 4 years ago
Quoted from movingpictures:

Shocking, really.
It is extremely clear that the two sides are no longer able to negotiate.
Perhaps mediators are the next step.

I can quite understand that after being stabbed in the back 24 times

#679 4 years ago

This is a true pinball drama story.

Tell me another hobby in which the drama starts when you get your money BACK .

#680 4 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

It's so damned simple. He has the paperwork filled out.
I really don't get why he doesn't want to assume the liability for Dutch Pinball USA.

Yeah. I wonder why... Yikes.

#681 4 years ago

Here's my take so far, I am hoping everyone will be ok and that this pin gets made but in the meantime, at least so far, Phil's the only one chatting with customers and answering questions (beyond that quick press release posted by a 3rd party)beyond that, Phil is also actively giving back funds and being fairly open about it. To me that speaks more to his character than the rest of this. Also I'm highly suspicious of the BoP development at this point as those quick screen grabs show it seriously behind and lacking funds.

Ash yourselves this, if the BoP project can have these kind of problems and not have enough funds to complete that they have to dip into other funds (possibly TBL from the looks of it) where's the next round of funds going to come from when this project needs them to be completed?

#682 4 years ago

What beggars belief is that the other guys at DP aren't trying to communicate with Phil to sort out this mess. The longer they leave it the worse it gets.

#683 4 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

You're playing. LCD gets wobbly for a split second. What was that? Ring ring. You reach to the side of the cabinet, and out of the box you take out an old fashioned black telephone receiver. Put the phone up to your ear but KEEP PLAYING! You hear, "To escape the Matrix, shoot the left ramp." Skill shot that, Mr. Anderson.

This WOULD be badass.

#684 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

Agreed. Sounds like some of these guys can clearly make a cool pinball, but lack business sense on such a massive level this pin may never come out. People tend to forget you can't just simply design the pin and thats it. Their is funding, support, marketing, sales etc.

Where have we heard that story before? A few other "boutique" guys? Imminent implosion? Doesn't have to be that way if guys would just get some help.

#685 4 years ago

Dumb question here. When we bought from Dutch pinball USA we did not have to worry about import Duty taxes or fees. But now we are buying from Dutch pinball BV. Does that make a difference?

-3
#686 4 years ago

I am at a total loss here.

(Junior is a nickname for Jaap)

Screen Shot 2014-12-14 at 21.50.54.png
#687 4 years ago

This is why you need a business manager and not just a creative

The 'Phil is just the marketing guy' threads should be a real hoot to read now

#688 4 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

I am at a total loss here.
(Junior is a nickname for Jaap)

Screen Shot 2014-12-14 at 21.50.... 75 KB

Please don't force me to make this decision alone.

What decision?

#689 4 years ago

Like they always say:

"Just because a guy is an ace mechanic, does not mean you want him running the garage....".

#690 4 years ago

U think its bullshit that people are getting money back? U rather them be screwed out of it!

#691 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Like they always say:
"Just because a guy is an ace mechanic, does not mean you want him running the garage....".

damn, nail sunk.

-4
#692 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

What decision?

To sabotage DB and TBL I guess...

#693 4 years ago

image-440.jpg
#694 4 years ago

The decision:

do we transfer Dutch Pinball Inc to Barry / Dutch Pinball BV

or

do I refund all the money, drain PayPal to zero, and shut the business down.

-15
#695 4 years ago

Guys, the only two people who can answer are Jaap who buried his mother yesterday and Barry who is traveling or has been traveling today from the NY event. Don't know his traveling schedule but usually traveling from US to Europe is overnight eg now

Is it thus really realistic to demand a response today or find it strange they didn't sofar ?

Give them a break. Do we want TBL to be made or not? I thought this was the dream theme for you Americans, apparently a dream is not worth fighting for in the US.

#696 4 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

The decision:
do we transfer Dutch Pinball Inc to Barry / Dutch Pinball BV
or
do I refund all the money, drain PayPal to zero, and shut the business down.

Send people their money... Let them decide to reinvest

#697 4 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

No Goodman callouts in the game means a VERY different game than most were anticipating. That's a BIG one.

Can't they just make the game with a bad voice-over to get it out of the door, and then buyers can change the voices to Goodman's voice using one of the various clever software tools out there... I didn't say that...

Quoted from lllvjr:

Listen to ur wife... If shit goes wrong she will hang it over ur head lol

You got that one right!! You seem to know my wife very very well!! I will NEVER live it down!!

#698 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

To sabotage DB and TBL I guess...

Sabotage? You mean the company he still owns (DP USA) and the funds in the account in his name? Sounds like he can do what he wants, we are just lucky that what he wants to do is the right thing.

#699 4 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

The decision:
do we transfer Dutch Pinball Inc to Barry / Dutch Pinball BV
or
do I refund all the money, drain PayPal to zero, and shut the business down.

Whichever one gets you out faster and easier.
I can resend the money.

#700 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

It's been 24 hours, FGS...

Exactly. Meaning a full day, and zero response to the actual issues. They obviously know about it, people are getting private replies from Barry. They still did the DP party in NY. I'm sure they have their side of the story. Maybe Phil isn't 100% in the right here. But speaking of FGS, if you take thousands of dollars from people and the sky looks like it's falling, then you don't get to just chill and party and take your time, you need to reassure people.

I want Phil to be out, and take care of beating his cancer, and I want DP to go on to build an awesome game. I'm hoping for the best! But you gotta take care of business before anything else. When people pay you then you owe them, in more ways than one.

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