(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

4 years ago



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#501 4 years ago

Makes watching this -> http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/54070739 into a whole new perspective.

Watch around the 0:27 minute mark when they talk about licensing.

#502 4 years ago

Better-Call-Saul.jpg
#503 4 years ago

Interesting...the way it seemed portrayed there was that that Goodman was a bit of a challenge for the rights, but as a whole everything else was taken care of in that department...I may not be understanding this correctly, but if the big issue is that they are some what limited in the images Goodman will allow, it's not the end of the world so long as the play by the rules. My question is are the sound bits with Walter involved still legal or not?

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#504 4 years ago

I can see things from both camps here. Phil wanted everything more “clean”, but let’s be honest: the guys at DP have made a working prototype in an amazingly short amount of time. You don’t get there by following all the red tape. I’m sure some corners were cut (heavily perhaps) but getting a real machine out there for us pinball guys to touch was the first big hurdle and I guess they wanted to get there as fast as possible, maybe underestimating the legal impact of (just a) prototype. But if you have a work in progress and you're "trying out stuff", you can't legalize every soundbit or playfield idea first. You need to get things done, test the effects on your audience and after positive reviews you'll want to take care of legal stuff. Maybe not the perfect way of doing business, but we're not talking about Stern here with 60 people on staff...

IMHO Phil is trying to hurt these guys as hard as he can, spilling all he knows about TBL and DP and sharing it here. Not even close to professional, even regarding his very unfortunate health problems and the harm DP might have been doing to him. But so far I have only read HIS side of the story.

Don't forget: up until now this thread isn't even 24 hours old, so let's hold our horses for now and wait for some official reaction on how DP wants to treat this shitstorm of corporate info Phil has just tossed here on the forum...

BTW: yes, I'm Dutch but I'm not affiliated to DP in any way

#505 4 years ago

Let's give DP a moment of time to react themselves.

Phil can call Jaap and Barry friends but it is a fact that Barry was out of the office yesterday in NY Modern Pinball and Jaap's mother passed away last monday and her funeral was yesterday ..... Coincidence that Phil does this now while nobody is in the office? In my book this is not how friends behave. Doing this to a 'friend' while he is berrying his mother, come on man

Anway, every story has 2 sides and let's await DP's story. Both Jaap and Barry and the rest of the team are all real people made of flesh and blood and with a passion for pinball. Does this mean they are superhumans and not make mistakes? Nope. But they will do it the right way I am sure.

Give them now some time to get their act together and inform us on their view on this whole licensing issue.

#506 4 years ago

image-355.jpg

I keed, I keed!

#507 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

I’m sure some corners were cut

Too many corners for me.

I almost felt for TBL. I was that close. The Papa video was convincing. (Were I Papa, I would actually remove that video until things get sort out)

12
#508 4 years ago

Where's the Hitler video?

#509 4 years ago

Regarding my choice of day, I had no idea about Jaap's mother as he and I no longer speak. My condolences to his family.

However, I asked Barry for six weeks to get me off DP USA. Again, all he had to do was get himself a Tax ID Number. I told him on December 2 that I would give him 2 more days. Unfortunately, I wasn't well, but when I saw the pictures from New York (including Kahlua still on the playfield) I had to act.

I called him and I told him that morning to find someone. I messaged him throughout the day with no reply -- he certainly didn't mention Jaap's mom.

I told him that I wouldn't say a word about anything DP, as long as he did the same about me, but he sent the message to all the customers. I don't even have their email addresses. I actually have no idea what orders are being taken in. Deposits do not go in to DP USA, but are instead sent up to DP Holland. Worst of all, I have no control whatsoever over the actions of Barry and Jaap.

But i still bear responsibility to its customers and for the debts of the firm and for the consequences of their actions and inactions.

Screen Shot 2014-12-14 at 14.00.54.png
#510 4 years ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

Found a story on the lawsuit. You can sell/reproduce the public domain items. I.e. movie posters, lobby cards, trailers. You cannot take the images/characters from the public domain items and reuse them elsewhere as the characters are copyrighted.

There are two issues that are being confused in this discussion.

1) The Wonderful Wizard of Oz story by Frank Baum and original artwork done by WW Denslow are in the public domain and have been since 1956.

2) The movie, which is based on the book, is not in the public domain. The characters used in the lawsuit were based on the posters and characters from the movie. That's the problem. Yes the characters may be in the public domain, but the MOVIE characters are not. So if you are going to create or sell anything Wizard of Oz related and don't want grief from the studio, it had better be based solely on the books and not the movie.

#511 4 years ago

Always such a thin line between love and hate...

Time to see the cards on the table from all sides first, think it through wisely , and ONlY then judge the situation at hand

#512 4 years ago

When I saw the video from expo and heard that they were using full songs by the original artists, I thought - impressive that these guys were able to clear all the hurdles and have the money to get all of those licensed in addition to the movie.

I don't understand the boutique pinball attitude of we are doing this out of love and passion for pinball so the rules of honesty, licensing, marketing and properly funding a business don't apply to us. Spooky is of course excluded because they have cool machines that exist and can be purchased and don't have to be pre-paid.

I hope this won't go the way of the Matrix machine - have to go to CAX to play one of the few in existence - because I want them to be produced.

#513 4 years ago

I have noticed everyone refund has been refunded via PayPal. If i am correct any pre-orders made at Expo were processes through "Square". It would be interesting to know who actually received those funds. Would it be safe to assume Phil had nothing to do with the "Square" account?

Post edited by DannyFresh: spelling

#514 4 years ago

Good morning.

After thinking about it and catching up w the overnight activity I've come up w/ the following:

1) Does anybody else see the irony if bttf is the 2 nd game? Look at the issues DE had w likenesses, either something has changed in that franchise for licensing or.... There's a pattern here.

2) please correct me if I'm wrong but the Goodman restrictions included speech? No "over the line!" Or anything?

3) I want my refund....

4) But want my cake and eat it too should it be served:

Dp needs a concise and mature response to this however, in the interim, I think a start to damage control should be aimed at us - the ones who believed and supported by pre-ordering. It was supposed to be no-risk from day one, now that perception is long gone.

I propose a) we get our refunds, b) our original place in line disclosed and a promise that place stays, then c) let us know when, if, our machine gets made and we'll decide then.

Take your time in responding to this mess and image-stabilize the company, but immediately satisfy those who supported by pre-ordering!

This ordeal could have a huge impact on the industry - I believe pre-orders do have a place on multiple levels - for those that may need a discount, a manufacturer that needs development funds, or in the case of Stern - to keep their multi-tier product line effective by the perception of exclusivity on LE's.

I hope the "Lebowski effect" term coined from the incredibly positive expo presence doesn't morph into a negative connotation describing these events.

Rod

#515 4 years ago
Quoted from Soltic:

I hope the "Lebowski effect" term coined from the incredibly positive expo presence doesn't morph into a negative connotation describing these events.
Rod

Too late?....

#516 4 years ago

Oh and speaking of monikers like "TBL effect"....

I think it prudent that Phil's gets a change from Phil "the F-Bomb" to Phil "the Effing Bombardier"....

Rod

#517 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

I can see things from both camps here. Phil wanted everything more “clean”, but let’s be honest: the guys at DP have made a working prototype in an amazingly short amount of time. You don’t get there by following all the red tape. I’m sure some corners were cut (heavily perhaps) but getting a real machine out there for us pinball guys to touch was the first big hurdle and I guess they wanted to get there as fast as possible, maybe underestimating the legal impact of (just a) prototype. But if you have a work in progress and you're "trying out stuff", you can't legalize every soundbit or playfield idea first. You need to get things done, test the effects on your audience and after positive reviews you'll want to take care of legal stuff. Maybe not the perfect way of doing business, but we're not talking about Stern here with 60 people on staff...

regardless of whether you have 60 people or 1 person "on staff", that's not an excuse for cuttting legal corners...

as a businessperson, you ALWAYS "take care of the legal stuff" FIRST... you don't float a prototype that you aren't damn sure that you have the right to produce... doing so leaves your butt exposed on both sides, both with the licensor and the potential buyer...

#518 4 years ago

Wowzers! Two cups of coffee to read through this beast. I truly hope it all works out for everyone. I would like to own this machine someday. Just didn't want another preorder process. I'm rooting for you all to get your machines the proper way.
Manufacturers - Show your product. Have us sign up if we are interested. Get investors for capital. Make them. Sell them. These are expensive and emotional purchases. Buying a pin is more dramatic on most than buying a damn car. lololol.

#519 4 years ago
Quoted from Soltic:

2) please correct me if I'm wrong but the Goodman restrictions included speech? No "over the line!" Or anything?

That's the way I read Phil's post with the email from the lady from Universal. No Goodman callouts in the game means a VERY different game than most were anticipating. That's a BIG one.

Quoted from Soltic:

This ordeal could have a huge impact on the industry - I believe pre-orders do have a place on multiple levels - for those that may need a discount, a manufacturer that needs development funds, or in the case of Stern - to keep their multi-tier product line effective by the perception of exclusivity on LE's.

I think that ship has already sailed. I think most have realized the pre-order game is just not worth the risk. I'm proudly out on all pre-orders, and will stay that way. I was tempted to get on the TBL pre-order train after the Expo hype, but glad I did not. The game they showed was not approved, and we now know elements of it may just not be possible at all.

I still hope they make a great game, but it appears they're going to need to take a big step back in terms of licensing and re-evaluate what's approved and what's not. It seems Phil was the middle man in that regard, so they really have an uphill battle now. It doesn't appear as though DP even truly understands licensing, likenesses, copyrights, artistic rendering, etc. And (cue massive understatement) that's actually kind of important.

#520 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

regardless of whether you have 60 people or 1 person "on staff", that's not an excuse for cuttting legal corners...
as a businessperson, you ALWAYS "take care of the legal stuff" FIRST... you don't float a prototype that you aren't damn sure that you have the right to produce... doing so leaves your butt exposed on both sides, both with the licensor and the potential buyer...

So you have experience building pin balls? In that case, I rest my case. In any other case, let me explain what I mean...

"Taking care of legal stuff" has a very wide perspective here. As I stated already: there isn't a single machine produced at this moment, so considering that, there IS NO LEGAL ISSUE YET. When you start making money using someone else's face, music or brand name, you're in trouble. These guys have most of the legal issues taken care of and are still sorting out other legal stuff, considering if it's ($$) worth while putting it in the definitive product. These licensing things kind of run parallel to developing the machine itself. While doing all that, they still want/need to show off a prototype and yes, that prototype will have stuff in it that has not been taken care of legally. Is that a problem? Probably, but is it a BIG problem? I'm not sure. What I do know is that Phil took the last 24 hours to TURN it into this big problem, making people doubt everything that has been done here. Phil could have walked a different path, called a lawyer or something that could pull his ass out of this company, but he chose to dump all his pain here, where it hurts DP the most. He chose to throw shit at his "friends". Typical. Have all Phil's claims been verified? Nope, just a pile of (doctored??) screen prints.

We can all have an opinion here, that's why it is a forum, but all we have here are Phil's rants and many people are already looking for their life vests. I think that's called "overreacting".

Let's give DP a chance to make an official statement and also consider the fact that one of their members first has a chance to take care of his personal family grief. As I said before: this is a small, dedicated group of people, not a large company with 10 people in the marketing department.

#521 4 years ago

At least those who get refunded have got their money back and can wait to see what happens without any risk.....

#522 4 years ago

48573890.jpg

I would hope/agree that there is a difference showing a work-in-progress prototype and shipping a completed game with unlicensed assets out to a customer.

Think of any movie being edited with a "temp music mix" where they just use whatever commercial music to put their movie together with while the composer puts something together. That temp mix is not for sale, but people will see it including test screening audiences.

I hope to own a TBL, and hope they pull it together.

#523 4 years ago

I was at Modern Pinball on Friday night and spoke with Barry quite a bit. We were discussing licensing and he mentioned that Universal requested some changes to the playfield which they were making. What I remember was :
1 - Remove the gun
2 - remove the Weed picture
3 - add a body and head to the legs on the upper left of the playfield.

In addition he mentioned that they did not get the Kahlua license and had switched it to coffee liqueur. I think he quoted that Kahlua wanted $10k for the license where Brunswick did not charge and saw it as advertising.

He actually showed me a picture of the revised Playfield on his iPhone that incorporated the changes noted above. It still looked great!

I asked about getting the licensing for the songs and he said in Holland it is an easier process and was able to just license them through the normal channels (not sure what that means) but had all 20 songs although for Viva Las Vegas they had to go with the Elvis version as the one from the movie is nowhere to be found.

The funniest thing in the game was the callouts when you are bashing the car. Those call outs were all from John Goodman and are way over the top! Extremely vulgar and funny. It worries me seeing the comments that John Goodman won't allow that.

I really wish the best to DP as it looks like it will be a great game if they can get this all worked out.

The rug looked great as well and Barry said it was a prototype and the final one will be of much better quality.

Good luck to everyone in on this pin.

Ed

Post edited by eharan: typo

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#524 4 years ago

If Goodman can't be dealt with, then you have to go with a soundalike. You can not make this game without those lines.

I hope people go easier on Stern the next time they use soundalikes.

#525 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

So you have experience building pin balls? In that case, I rest my case. In any other case, let me explain what I mean...
"Taking care of legal stuff" has a very wide perspective here. As I stated already: there isn't a single machine produced at this moment, so considering that, there IS NO LEGAL ISSUE YET. When you start making money using someone else's face, music or brand name, you're in trouble. These guys have most of the legal issues taken care of and are still sorting out other legal stuff, considering if it's ($$) worth while putting it in the definitive product. These licensing things kind of run parallel to developing the machine itself. While doing all that, they still want/need to show off a prototype and yes, that prototype will have stuff in it that has not been taken care of legally. Is that a problem? Probably, but is it a BIG problem? I'm not sure. What I do know is that Phil took the last 24 hours to TURN it into this big problem, making people doubt everything that has been done here. Phil could have walked a different path, called a lawyer or something that could pull his ass out of this company, but he chose to dump all his pain here, where it hurts DP the most. He chose to throw shit at his "friends". Typical. Have all Phil's claims been verified? Nope, just a pile of (doctored??) screen prints.
We can all have an opinion here, that's why it is a forum, but all we have here are Phil's rants and many people are already looking for their life vests. I think that's called "overreacting".
Let's give DP a chance to make an official statement and also consider the fact that one of their members first has a chance to take care of his personal family grief. As I said before: this is a small, dedicated group of people, not a large company with 10 people in the marketing department.

I love how your telling people what to do with their hard earned money. Cause that's what your saying. Don't bail out,,, they can't build a game with out us... Assume the risk... Ha

#526 4 years ago
Quoted from eharan:

although for Viva Las Vegas they had to go with the Elvis version as the one from the movie is nowhere to be found.

Do you mean they couldn't get ahold of ZZ top or didn't know it was ZZ top singing it? Pretty sure that's who's doing it in the movie.

#527 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

I can see things from both camps here. Phil wanted everything more “clean”, but let’s be honest: the guys at DP have made a working prototype in an amazingly short amount of time. You don’t get there by following all the red tape. I’m sure some corners were cut (heavily perhaps) but getting a real machine out there for us pinball guys to touch was the first big hurdle and I guess they wanted to get there as fast as possible, maybe underestimating the legal impact of (just a) prototype. But if you have a work in progress and you're "trying out stuff", you can't legalize every soundbit or playfield idea first. You need to get things done, test the effects on your audience and after positive reviews you'll want to take care of legal stuff. Maybe not the perfect way of doing business, but we're not talking about Stern here with 60 people on staff...
IMHO Phil is trying to hurt these guys as hard as he can, spilling all he knows about TBL and DP and sharing it here. Not even close to professional, even regarding his very unfortunate health problems and the harm DP might have been doing to him. But so far I have only read HIS side of the story.
Don't forget: up until now this thread isn't even 24 hours old, so let's hold our horses for now and wait for some official reaction on how DP wants to treat this shitstorm of corporate info Phil has just tossed here on the forum...
BTW: yes, I'm Dutch but I'm not affiliated to DP in any way

Showing unlicensed product in the USA to the public can cost you millions of dollars in lawsuits.

#528 4 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

Do you mean they couldn't get ahold of ZZ top or didn't know it was ZZ top singing it? Pretty sure that's who's doing it in the movie.

Nope.

It's almost like a cover version of the ZZ top version. But it sure isn't ZZ top not anybody I've ever heard of.

#529 4 years ago

I guess I've been way out of it, but until Phil's post I wasn't aware it was being shopped to distributors. I thought DP was the only option. Maybe it's not important to others but that's a big deal to me with what we saw with WOZ distributors jumping pre-orders. Perhaps that's why they refused to give a production number?

12
#530 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Showing unlicensed product in the USA to the public can cost you millions of dollars in lawsuits.

Exactly. To say that because nobody has physical ownership of a machine yet so nobody's been harmed or infringed against is just representative of lack of knowledge on the subject. The instant you show a product prototype or not with unapproved content and someone opts to preorder, you've just sold a product illegally and likely also deceptively. The world of licensing is complex and it's just basic common sense that the very first order of business for a potentially licensed product should be a full and complete compliance with a secured license agreement. There is no grey area, there is no room for interpretation. Even an unreleased product promoted as licensed can lead to hefty legal issues. Much easier to understand what Stern goes through after this i'm betting. You don't just snap your fingers and get original audio, music or likenesses. Sometimes it's easier than others and sometimes it's just cost prohibitive, but whether you like it or not, you must comply.

#531 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Nope.
It's almost like a cover version of the ZZ top version. But it sure isn't ZZ top not anybody I've ever heard of.

According to imdb it's Shawn Colvin.

She's a singer song-writer thats only really had one hit (sonny came home) but has put out several albums)

#532 4 years ago

If DP can't use John Goodman, they can always get Tara Reid to play John Goodman

-10
#533 4 years ago

I know Phil is going thru some stuff and probably isn't thinking long-term...but will anybody ever hire him for anything, ever again? I'd guess he's rendered himself unemployable, for Anything, forever.

#534 4 years ago

I sent an email to DP on the payment and licensing issues. If you preordered on PayPal in the US more than 45 days ago then you do nothing or must I now request a refund? Very confused.

I think they owe us a detailed update on the status of all licensing and risks. The weed and gun doesn't bother me but if we lose Walter (Goodman) voice over ... damn. I would be willing to donate more money to Jeff's charity (Food Hunger) if that would help him (Jeff) convince Goodman to agree to the voice use

10
#535 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

I can see things from both camps here. Phil wanted everything more “clean”, but let’s be honest: the guys at DP have made a working prototype in an amazingly short amount of time. You don’t get there by following all the red tape. I’m sure some corners were cut (heavily perhaps) but getting a real machine out there for us pinball guys to touch was the first big hurdle and I guess they wanted to get there as fast as possible, maybe underestimating the legal impact of (just a) prototype. But if you have a work in progress and you're "trying out stuff", you can't legalize every soundbit or playfield idea first. You need to get things done, test the effects on your audience and after positive reviews you'll want to take care of legal stuff. Maybe not the perfect way of doing business, but we're not talking about Stern here with 60 people on staff...
IMHO Phil is trying to hurt these guys as hard as he can, spilling all he knows about TBL and DP and sharing it here. Not even close to professional, even regarding his very unfortunate health problems and the harm DP might have been doing to him. But so far I have only read HIS side of the story.
Don't forget: up until now this thread isn't even 24 hours old, so let's hold our horses for now and wait for some official reaction on how DP wants to treat this shitstorm of corporate info Phil has just tossed here on the forum...
BTW: yes, I'm Dutch but I'm not affiliated to DP in any way

What you are suggesting is 100 percent illegal. A comany intending to sell something can not use the likeness of a celebrity or ip without the permission of the license holder. And once money exchanged hands you're talking huge liability for lawsuit. The law in this area is black and white. Imagine stern showing a prototype for TWD with voice clips from actors? It amazes me the utter lack of business acumen displayed by boutique pinball companies. Not one dime should go to a company until they have a legally permissible game to sell. And this whole kickstarter approach to helping a company form needs to stop. Pinball isn't a new spoon. Or better sunglasses. It's a highly complex machine that requires a true factory and assembly line to be made efficiently and correctly. This pin is amazing and I hope it gets made the right way.

#536 4 years ago

this situation is a real mess. i will not toss my money back in on this pre order drama.

i will ONLY be a future customer for tbl if i am offered the same deal that i was offered at expo with the rug and the chrome package and not paying the price increase.

i have the money set aside for this, otherwise there are many, many other options. i hope you guys take heed and don't fuck yourselves, you need us a hell of a lot more then we need you.

#537 4 years ago

The $10,000 for the Kahlua seems like not a bad deal considering they paid nothing for the Brunswick rights. Say they have 200 preorders that's just $50.00 a machine.
They can"t afford to do that to keep the authenticity of the machine.

10
#538 4 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

Email dated March 7, from Julie at Universal to me:
-------
Our frustration arose from their lack of understanding that The Big Lebowski assets are restricted to the approved set we have, and that while additional talent approvals are possible for most of the cast, they are just not possible for John Goodman.
-------

I am quoting this again as people are getting carried away with the Goodman stuff; It says "Additional talent approvals" ... i.e., an expansion of what's already available. This does not mean 0% john goodman or no callouts. "Additional" people..

#539 4 years ago

Double Penetration USA refund? WAT?

#540 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Showing unlicensed product in the USA to the public can cost you millions of dollars in lawsuits.

Quoted from gamestencils:

Exactly. To say that because nobody has physical ownership of a machine yet so nobody's been harmed or infringed against is just representative of lack of knowledge on the subject. The instant you show a product prototype or not with unapproved content and someone opts to preorder, you've just sold a product illegally and likely also deceptively. The world of licensing is complex and it's just basic common sense that the very first order of business for a potentially licensed product should be a full and complete compliance with a secured license agreement. There is no grey area, there is no room for interpretation. Even an unreleased product promoted as licensed can lead to hefty legal issues. Much easier to understand what Stern goes through after this i'm betting. You don't just snap your fingers and get original audio, music or likenesses. Sometimes it's easier than others and sometimes it's just cost prohibitive, but whether you like it or not, you must comply.

yup to both... but what do i know, i don't make pinball machines...

#541 4 years ago
Quoted from eharan:

I was at Modern Pinball on Friday night and spoke with Barry quite a bit. We were discussing licensing and he mentioned that Universal requested some changes to the playfield which they were making. What I remember was :
1 - Remove the gun
2 - remove the Weed picture
3 - add a body and head to the legs on the upper left of the playfield.
In addition he mentioned that they did not get the Kahlua license and had switched it to coffee liqueur. I think he quoted that Kahlua wanted $10k for the license where Brunswick did not charge and saw it as advertising.
He actually showed me a picture of the revised Playfield on his iPhone that incorporated the changes noted above. It still looked great!
I asked about getting the licensing for the songs and he said in Holland it is an easier process and was able to just license them through the normal channels (not sure what that means) but had all 20 songs although for Viva Las Vegas they had to go with the Elvis version as the one from the movie is nowhere to be found.
The funniest thing in the game was the callouts when you are bashing the car. Those call outs were all from John Goodman and are way over the top! Extremely vulgar and funny. It worries me seeing the comments that John Goodman won't allow that.
I really wish the best to DP as it looks like it will be a great game if they can get this all worked out.
The rug looked great as well and Barry said it was a prototype and the final one will be of much better quality.
Good luck to everyone in on this pin.
Ed
Post edited by eharan: typo

If you are going to kick start something how about community raise the funds 10k to use kahlua. And see what goodman wants. 10k is nothing for such a sweet license.

#542 4 years ago

Wouldn't it be fantastic if this whole pre-order/pre-payment model came to a grinding halt?
Even better if these start-ups could design a pin, show potential buyers/garner interest, COM
PLETE the code, and then sell the whole thing to Stern or JJP to produce?

#543 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

I am quoting this again as people are getting carried away with the Goodman stuff; It says "Additional talent approvals" ... i.e., an expansion of what's already available. This does not mean 0% john goodman or no callouts. "Additional" people..

I was just about to post the exact same message. It seems like this thread is one big echo chamber where assumptions magically get turned into hard facts within three posts or less.
Put simply, we currently do not know if all of the Goodman callouts that are currently in the prototype are part of the already approved package. If they are, then nothing will radically alter with regards to those callouts when the machine hits the production stage. The sane thing to do would be to try and keep the "OMG no Goodman in TBL"-assumptions to a minimum, until we hear from DP.

Post edited by cogito: spelling

#544 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I know Phil is going thru some stuff and probably isn't thinking long-term...but will anybody ever hire him for anything, ever again? I'd guess he's rendered himself unemployable, for Anything, forever.

That cuts both ways. If I'm interpreting it correctly, Phil sees TBL as potentially blowing up so dramatically that it becomes toxic for the career of ANYONE associated with the project through activities of employees not under his control that he has unsuccessfully tried to deter.

So he concludes that anything he has to do with DP is toxic for his career but cannot get DP to cut the strings despite repeated communication. So he is trying to do some damage control and return those funds that he can to at least minimize damage to the prospective customers.

I think Phil is thinking that he'd rather have the black mark on his resume of a guy who will do anything to avoid impropriety once he's exhausted in-company communication, over the black mark on his resume of being a party towards misleading licensing negotiations and selling a pinball machine that could not exist in its presented form.

If that's the case, I think he chose properly with regards to future career prospects and disagree with you.

#545 4 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Is DP in for a possible legal battle?have they broken a law regarding copyright infringement in the USA?

If they spend money on obtaining liscences will they run out of money to build?

Has anyone ever pre-ordered a lawyer before?

#546 4 years ago
Quoted from cogito:

Put simply, we currently do not know if all of the Goodman callouts that are currently in the prototype are part of the already approved package. If they are, then nothing will radically alter with regards to those callouts when the machine hits the production stage. The sane thing to do would be to try and keep the "OMG no Goodman in TBL"-assumptions to a minimum, until we hear from DP.

This is confusing because Phil also said this:

Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

Those call-outs from the actors? Not approved by universal.

#547 4 years ago

nah... plenty of CUO* lawyers lying around pinside... no need to pre-order...

* courtroom used only...

#548 4 years ago

So why can't they hire a voice actors and make their own 'Goodman' call outs? Not like the phrases are trademarked

Quoted from mechslave:

Soltic said:

2) please correct me if I'm wrong but the Goodman restrictions included speech? No "over the line!" Or anything?

That's the way I read Phil's post with the email from the lady from Universal. No Goodman callouts in the game means a VERY different game than most were anticipating. That's a BIG one.

#549 4 years ago

Kaneda, are you stating copyright infringement in the USA based on the prototype playfields shown at shows or something else? Are you implying that they would launch the game and still infringe?

kaneda said:
Is DP in for a possible legal battle?have they broken a law regarding copyright infringement in the USA?

If they spend money on obtaining liscences will they run out of money to build?

Has anyone ever pre-ordered a lawyer before?

#550 4 years ago

Enjoying geuine Garrett's popcorn while reading the Dutch Pinball trainwreck thread from my suite overlooking the Chicago River.

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