(Topic ID: 154487)

Downgrade from GB LE to premium?

By rai

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 255 posts
  • 96 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by eggbert52
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“LE or premium”

  • LE there's only 500 and can get it sooner 63 votes
    39%
  • Premium can play it first and slightly cheaper 100 votes
    61%

(163 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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There are 255 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 6.
-3
#151 8 years ago
Quoted from leonml:

The whole warm hands shattering cool glass scare is a bunch of dog poo. There's not a set of hands warm enough to heat even the coldest piece of glass fast enough to cause it to just shatter from rapid molecular change. If this were the case, no glass ever made from the beginning of time would hold up in cold winter months. When your car heater was blasting on the windshield, before the days of tempered or safety glass. They're are model t fords from wisconsin with the original glass. Also there'd be a ton of fishing and hunting shacks and old houses with hand formed glass windows laying in crumbled piles outside every building in wisconsin and other. Cold winter mornings at freezing Temps and that hot morning sun is hitting it directly at much higher temp, no breakage. Could go to an old hunting or fishing shack or cabin, below zero out, start a wood fire, rapidly heating to room temp and even with the extreme cold temp hitting the outside and warm heating the inside, you could tap it or have a small branch or bird or whatever hit that glass, no breakage.
Only way I see backglass breaking is poor handling. Maybe handling the very edges of opposite corners, and holding it parallel to the floor, possibly walking with it could cause the glass to flex and the corners to break off, then shattering on the floor.
Otherwise the physics would negate otherwise.
I've had old games in a garage that was 20 below zero, brought it in my house at 73 degrees, and handled the glass and no breaks. I've hauled and unloaded games in that kind of weather and brought them inside, hauling down stairs, jarring every step down, then unwrapping, setting up, handling the glass, checking everything over, and no breakage. Yes I waited to turn the machine on after a couple hours.
Just my 2 cents worth. Supported by science, physics, logic and real life examples that can't be refuted.

you do realize that model T's don't have tempered glass right. There was no such thing as tempered glass back then. Tempered is strong as shit, unless it is subjected to temp changes (no it doesn't take that much of a change) or you slightly ting one of the edges. Have you watched the video where someone shows you how durable playfield glass is? The guy stood on a piece that was on bricks from side to side..bounced in the center. Didn't break. Barely hit the edge with something and it shattered into diamonds. It's just as fragile with things cold or warmer than the glass. Anyone around here can tell you they have seen it first hand. No mishandling..nothing. Just bursting in your hands for no reason. But this only holds true for tempered glass. Many EM glasses and zaccaria glasses are standard glass and are not as fragile to these conditions.

#152 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

you do realize that model T's don't have tempered glass right. There was no such thing as tempered glass back then. Tempered is strong as shit, unless it is subjected to temp changes (no it doesn't take that much of a change) or you slightly ting one of the edges. Have you watched the video where someone shows you how durable playfield glass is? The guy stood on a piece that was on bricks from side to side..bounced in the center. Didn't break. Barely hit the edge with something and it shattered into diamonds. It's just as fragile with things cold or warmer than the glass. Anyone around here can tell you they have seen it first hand. No mishandling..nothing. Just bursting in your hands for no reason. But this only holds true for tempered glass. Many EM glasses and zaccaria glasses are standard glass and are not as fragile to these conditions.

Come on dude. OP politely asked for you guys to take it elsewhere. I'm not interested in reading about glass. I want to read about GB Prem vs LE.

#153 8 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Kinda Crazy! I dont buy pins always for the purpose of making money, but I dont ignore it either.
Its not a "business" anymore, but still there are prices everywhere, that have opportunities.
Buying new for a profit is crazy hard, if not impossible, but If youll excuse my arrogance, there are a few tricks.
I have first been using the highest reward CC to get some cash back. Chase Sapphire will give $500 back now with a $4000 purchase. They have gone as high as $700 back on $5000 last year.
An easy Start. If your credit is good, Apply for one card in your name, so you can apply later for another in your wife, or even cosign one for a child.
Last year, I received 3K back from this.
Look into an Equity Line. This varies from State to State, but in Fl, there are/have been offers 1.99% for 12 months, Zero out of pocket to open. Great for consolidating all dept and with a Tax benefit.
So a Pin of say a $10,000 value...So your monthly Interest only, (If credit is strong) is $16.66.
One could get a Premium GB, and an Aliens Pin for about $25 a month to rent!
Maybe sell them both after a year, and with some good planning, its quite possible to break even.
Lastly, Consider creating a business.....Its not as hard as it seems. And things start costing less.
Youll have filings, State and Federal and some record keeping. But also deductions, write offs, and even sales tax savings on games! There are great easy books like "Business or Incorporate for dummies, etc)
Youll get to depreciate your purchase, and the interest is a business expense!
My apologies for stepping in like this...I normally keep quiet on this, but in 44 years, Ive only lost money on 2 pins.
...I have my procedures coming up, and have wanted to share this for a while...I thought it would be OK here to share my opinion.
Obviously shop for price, keep the game running well and Enjoy!

I get what you're saying, but opening the credit option to buy a pin is a little risky. Especially if you're not disciplined it's easy to get out of control. At any rate....back on topic.

#154 8 years ago

While the gameplay video will be a pro, we will be able to see the shots (minus the moving ghost and minus the magnet slings and crossover ramp) hope to see some good rules sound effects, music that I might know more if this will be a good game.

#155 8 years ago
Quoted from rai:

While the gameplay video will be a pro, we will be able to see the shots same shots (minus the moving ghost and minus the magnet slings) and hope to see some good rules sound effects, music that I might know more if this will be a good game.

I am really interested to see how those magnet slings work. Just gotta hope a prem pops up around me so I can get my hands on one.

#156 8 years ago

I'm kind of interested in the magnet slings as well. Hope they are stronger then the ones on TZ.

#157 8 years ago
Quoted from TomN:

I'm kind of interested in the magnet slings as well. Hope they are stronger then the ones on TZ.

I hope there's some type of sound effect played when they are activated as otherwise it's going to seem odd. I assume Stern did a lot of testing with the magnetic slings and look at them as something that enhances gameplay. Hopefully they don't turn out to be something that people dislike. It's a huge change considering it will be the first pin, at least in the modern era, to not use regular kickers.

#158 8 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

It's a huge change considering it will be the first pin, at least in the modern era, to not use regular kickers.

Wait .... the slings on the LE don't have traditional kickers at all? I assumed the magnets were just in addition to the regular slings.

#159 8 years ago

Only Magnets...should be cool, exciting, challenging, and.......likely piss off some people!

#160 8 years ago

Will the premium have magnets instead of kickers?

#161 8 years ago

Is the only difference between LE and Premium the side art, back glass art and green trim?

#162 8 years ago

Plus shaker

#163 8 years ago

This new Stern pricing is really messing with my head, an LE should be $500-$700 more not $1200-$1500

#164 8 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

Will the premium have magnets instead of kickers?

Yes

#165 8 years ago

If I were you and you seem undecided on this and the money isn't that big of a deal, I would keep the LE on deposit. If still not decided when it ships keep it NIB till you decide 100%. I am sure you will at least break even and most likely you will make money if you leave it NIB. I personally love the look of the Premium and the LE is growing on me but I don't think the art and shaker motor justify the price difference between the two.

#166 8 years ago

RAI keep the LE! Only 500 made (250 will stay in the US) it will be a special and hard to find game down the road. METLE and BIB both are hard to find for a decent price because they are limited production even though they are the same game as their premium counterparts (diff cab art and backglass). GBLE will always be sought after by the LE or bust crowd IMHO.

#167 8 years ago

I'm probably going to have to get the Premium now. My "distributor" dropped the ball on my LE order. I told him last week and then reminded him the day it was announced. Wasn't the best price but not the worst either. $8400 shipped. I texted him a couple times the last couple days asking how he wanted me to pay for the deposit. He finally gets back to me today and says mailing him a check will be fine but that he needs to email Stern first to make sure he can get another one. My response - WTF??!!!! You didn't order it???!! Long story short, LEs are gone and this person is no longer my distributor. I've bought 3 games before from this guy, hung out together, etc. for years.

#168 8 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I hope there's some type of sound effect played when they are activated as otherwise it's going to seem odd. I assume Stern did a lot of testing with the magnetic slings and look at them as something that enhances gameplay. Hopefully they don't turn out to be something that people dislike. It's a huge change considering it will be the first pin, at least in the modern era, to not use regular kickers.

Im guessing they'll use some sort of sound effects like they used (still?) for electric cars to simulate engine noise because it was just too weird without it.

But the main unknown is predictability. At least with regular slings you can anticipate how they'll behave. Not so sure with magnets. All magnet games Ive played have been used to either randomize the ball, or capture it. Except TZ upper PF which is used to "control"the ball - or attempt to control the ball at best.

Given they wont be capturing the ball at the slings, Im hoping the magnets wont randomize it. Randomizing is great further up the PF, but so close to the flippers/outlanes, not so much. Im assuming this mechanism has had a lot of testing, though Im a little wary that 5 years down the track it'll be known as "that game with the magnet slings". Who knows until I can play it. As strange as it sounds, I probably would have ordered an LE if it wasnt for the the magnet slings. As it is now, it's my main reasoning to wait for the Premium.

And we wont even be able to judge from Jack Dangers stream as it will be on the Pro.

#169 8 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I am really interested to see how those magnet slings work. Just gotta hope a prem pops up around me so I can get my hands on one.

I will tell you right now, there will be one right here with me . Come on up once I get it!

#170 8 years ago
Quoted from tacshose:

This new Stern pricing is really messing with my head, an LE should be $500-$700 more not $1200-$1500

Quoted from Pinballlew:

I don't think the art and shaker motor justify the price difference between the two.

There's the rub. How many hundreds of dollars is the "limited" part of the equation worth it? And that's why some people just get annoyed with LEs to begin with. Fortunately there are Premiums.

In terms of art, I really think the slimer package is terrific. It's vibrant and alive! Green rails really go with it, but I agree with people wary of the green. It might not be a color you want to see day in and say out (I was an AVLE blue guy).

IMO no LE is worth the prices they charge...but if you feel you just gotta have it, common sense goes out the window.

#171 8 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

RAI keep the LE! Only 500 made (250 will stay in the US) it will be a special and hard to find game down the road. METLE and BIB both are hard to find for a decent price because they are limited production even though they are the same game as their premium counterparts (diff cab art and backglass). GBLE will always be sought after by the LE or bust crowd IMHO.

This is the hype talking. The game still has to be excellent to support value/resale down the road. So far the game looks GREAT...but who's willing to give me a guarantee on my spend?

No offense to Concrete. I'm not singling you out. But Doesn't anyone see the humor (and "general" Pinside hypocrisy) in this release? Well, I know RD does. Yet again, after all the "Ill never buy NIB again...." It's "Take my $ Stern" and "we have a guaranteed hit on our hands!!"

#172 8 years ago

For me, the difference was $1000 between the two.
I see the shaker and Powder coating as a total of $500 added on.

I feel my "gamble" between the 2 Games was $500.
I am getting back $350 on a new CC for this purchase.

$150 Bet on an LE vs Premium....Ill double down!

We all see it differently.

#173 8 years ago

This thread is like every single thread for NIB Stern games the last 6 years. Just cut and paste your previous comments and change the name of the game to GB.

#174 8 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

This thread is like every single thread for NIB Stern games the last 6 years. Just cut and paste your previous comments and change the name of the game to GB.

Agreed, but the difference in pricing now is getting larger then it was, and Stern is now testing the waters of how little they need to add to get LE's sold, unlike the crazy cool STLE which everyone agrees was worth the LE price. I didn't mention Tron because no premium option.

#175 8 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

For me, the difference was $1000 between the two.
I see the shaker and Powder coating as a total of $500 added on.
I feel my "gamble" between the 2 Games was $500.
I am getting back $350 on a new CC for this purchase.
$150 Bet on an LE vs Premium....Ill double down!
We all see it differently.

Not sure you can count the $350 - wouldn't you have gotten it back on Premium as well? Also an FYI - chances are your distributor would have lowered the price with a check/cash purchase vs credit card .. Otherwise the dealer is eating the 3% credit card charge themselves, which is doubtful - it is most likely built into their price. Always ask if you can get it cheaper with cash - On an $8k machine, that could be $240 saved.

#176 8 years ago

Ok, I may be the ONLY one who absolutely loved TWD from day one.

The shots were great, the layout unique and the potential was awesome. There was never a doubt Lyman was going to crush it.

GBLE certainly "looks" like it could be epic fun. Theme and art are as good as it gets. That alone, with that Slimer art is enough for me to pile in.

Layout looks like a Trudeau gem.

Dwight needs to bring it home like Lyman!

Most any pinball is fun, but when you get a great theme that you love that's immersive code wise it will hard to F this one up

#177 8 years ago
Quoted from Eryeal:

Not sure you can count the $350 - wouldn't you have gotten it back on Premium as well? Also an FYI - chances are your distributor would have lowered the price with a check/cash purchase vs credit card .. Otherwise the dealer is eating the 3% credit card charge themselves, which is doubtful - it is most likely built into their price. Always ask if you can get it cheaper with cash - On an $8k machine, that could be $240 saved.

You are correct that the CC would come back on either game, a flaw in my logic, but a way
we/I "rationalize" our/my purchase.

Guilty as charged!

The CC is giving $500, I am paying the 3% or $150.

Even at just the $1000 difference, is this close as an average spread between Premium and LE over time in resale?

#178 8 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

I'm probably going to have to get the Premium now. My "distributor" dropped the ball on my LE order. I told him last week and then reminded him the day it was announced. Wasn't the best price but not the worst either. $8400 shipped. I texted him a couple times the last couple days asking how he wanted me to pay for the deposit. He finally gets back to me today and says mailing him a check will be fine but that he needs to email Stern first to make sure he can get another one. My response - WTF??!!!! You didn't order it???!! Long story short, LEs are gone and this person is no longer my distributor. I've bought 3 games before from this guy, hung out together, etc. for years.

I'd have been pretty heated. Barring a family emergency sounds like dude really dropped the ball on this one. Hate it for ya, but looking at his GBLE price makes me think he did you a favor in the longterm. Check out JJ at Game Exchange or one of the many other reliable and competitively priced distros out there for future purchases. Still might be an LE out there somewhere at $8400. Best of luck regardless.

#179 8 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

This thread is like every single thread for NIB Stern games the last 6 years. Just cut and paste your previous comments and change the name of the game to GB.

Except the feature gap is growing, feature quality has becoming more watery, and the price offset is higher. Compare "LE"s of the past.

This is a reduced quality art package upgrade for extra $1000.
This is NOT a real backglass, I confirmed the information with a distributor related to questions with Stern.
Its a decal attached to glass and its not "fake" mirrored either.

No cabinets have screened artwork, just more decals to peel or need to protect.

Powder coated armor does not cost $500, and came from the Avengers part rack.
In fact a proper shop can do the entire package for less than $200 if you have the parts, and $300 of you do not, if you do not wish to "recycle" your own.
I did it for my MET for $150.
This is not a major job, as the black powder coating is a good primer.

Cross evaluation of every release in the past 6 years does show a pattern, but not exactly the one you mentioned.
Just like when the GB topper is released for $599.

Not a single owner should complain about cost in 5 years, as this is caused by "collector acceptance inflation."
People accept less for more cost.
You can project cost % increases for most desirable titles including new release NIB.
This is NOT the next Tron LE, BBB, or whatever else "pinball stock market flippers" (AKA price speculators) may believe, not that people will not squat on the NIB games for several years.

#180 8 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I showed my wife the pics. She has zero interest in pinball, but I asked her what she thought looked better. Now I know it's not a blind test because the LE has the green armor in all the pics. But she said she preferred the LE and also she also thought the LE trans light looked better.

I would stomp my feet and grudgingly tell my wife that I'll buy the LE but she'll need to play Jane to my Tarzan for a month.

#181 8 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I am really interested to see how those magnet slings work. Just gotta hope a prem pops up around me so I can get my hands on one.

probably going to work just like the magnet slingshot on hobbit. There is a magnet sling on hobbit right up on the left side near the smaug VUK. Works pretty good.

#182 8 years ago

Interesting. That seemed to operate like a standard sling to me.

#183 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

probably going to work just like the magnet slingshot on hobbit. There is a magnet sling on hobbit right up on the left side near the smaug VUK. Works pretty good.

I didn't know that.

#184 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

probably going to work just like the magnet slingshot on hobbit. There is a magnet sling on hobbit right up on the left side near the smaug VUK. Works pretty good.

The upper left flipper was removed and replaced with a normal coil slingshot kicker, it's not a magnet on Hobbit.

#185 8 years ago

Just listened to the Trudeau podcast, the LE/Prem magnet slings will do some cool things, hold the ball and drop to the flipper at times.

The days of LE models increasing in value ended at METLE. Buy a game to play and have fun.

Premiums are the best value. Pro buyers should thank the LE buyers, they singlehandedly help keep pro prices low.

Speaking of future titles, Maiden, Zeppelin and maybe Star Wars will be LE must buys. Stern Star Trek paved the way to a true LE with the side bling and laser led side rails.

#186 8 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

Honestly I don't even like the movies that much, I think they are kinda dumb. Made for sci-fy channel level of production. Bad acting, cheesy effects, etc.

Agreed... I have the same thoughts about the original Tron as well.

-1
#187 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

you do realize that model T's don't have tempered glass right. There was no such thing as tempered glass back then. Tempered is strong as shit, unless it is subjected to temp changes (no it doesn't take that much of a change) or you slightly ting one of the edges. Have you watched the video where someone shows you how durable playfield glass is? The guy stood on a piece that was on bricks from side to side..bounced in the center. Didn't break. Barely hit the edge with something and it shattered into diamonds. It's just as fragile with things cold or warmer than the glass. Anyone around here can tell you they have seen it first hand. No mishandling..nothing. Just bursting in your hands for no reason. But this only holds true for tempered glass. Many EM glasses and zaccaria glasses are standard glass and are not as fragile to these conditions.

Must read more thoroughly grasshopper. I said before the days of tempered and safety glass.

-1
#188 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

you do realize that model T's don't have tempered glass right. There was no such thing as tempered glass back then. Tempered is strong as shit, unless it is subjected to temp changes (no it doesn't take that much of a change) or you slightly ting one of the edges. Have you watched the video where someone shows you how durable playfield glass is? The guy stood on a piece that was on bricks from side to side..bounced in the center. Didn't break. Barely hit the edge with something and it shattered into diamonds. It's just as fragile with things cold or warmer than the glass. Anyone around here can tell you they have seen it first hand. No mishandling..nothing. Just bursting in your hands for no reason. But this only holds true for tempered glass. Many EM glasses and zaccaria glasses are standard glass and are not as fragile to these conditions.

I also did mention mishandling it, "by carrying on the edges of the corners. " covering the issue of corners.

I also have experience with drilling large saltwater fish tanks, and you're not supposed to do it, and yes it's a risk, but it can be done.

-1
#189 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

you do realize that model T's don't have tempered glass right. There was no such thing as tempered glass back then. Tempered is strong as shit, unless it is subjected to temp changes (no it doesn't take that much of a change) or you slightly ting one of the edges. Have you watched the video where someone shows you how durable playfield glass is? The guy stood on a piece that was on bricks from side to side..bounced in the center. Didn't break. Barely hit the edge with something and it shattered into diamonds. It's just as fragile with things cold or warmer than the glass. Anyone around here can tell you they have seen it first hand. No mishandling..nothing. Just bursting in your hands for no reason. But this only holds true for tempered glass. Many EM glasses and zaccaria glasses are standard glass and are not as fragile to these conditions.

No hands warm enough and glass cool enough. I stand by that til Mythbusters proves otherwise.

#190 8 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

Just listened to the Trudeau podcast, the LE/Prem magnet slings will do some cool things, hold the ball and drop to the flipper at times.

Where is the Trudeau podcast?

-2
#191 8 years ago

Sorry, couldn't resist. No more glass talk, promise.

#195 8 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

The upper left flipper was removed and replaced with a normal coil slingshot kicker, it's not a magnet on Hobbit.

I just played it 2 days ago and it was a magnetic sling and a production machine.

and what upper left flipper? Only upper flipper i've seen on hobbit was the upper right one.

#196 8 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

You are correct that the CC would come back on either game, a flaw in my logic, but a way
we/I "rationalize" our/my purchase.
Guilty as charged!
The CC is giving $500, I am paying the 3% or $150.
Even at just the $1000 difference, is this close as an average spread between Premium and LE over time in resale?

The cash price difference for me was $900. I went LE. People needed to call around if they are being told $1,500 difference between premium and LE.

I'll get to play the pro at the Ohio show before the LE goes to production, so that will tell me enough about the game play to know if I want to keep on the LE or cancel altogether. My deposit is fully refundable, so I didn't mind preordering.

#197 8 years ago

I wish I could afford either but if I had the funds I'd go LE; however, I would be more than happy with the Premium. This is the only NIB pin that I wish I could buy, I really like the fresh layout, PF artwork and all the toys but I guess the proof will be in the pudding.

#198 8 years ago
Quoted from Chippewa-Pin:

The cash price difference for me was $900. I went LE. People needed to call around if they are being told $1,500 difference between premium and LE.

While I appreciate your input, it's a little Monday Morning QB of you. People are lucky to find a LE period. There is no calling around. Either you have one secured or you don't. I'm not sure what's being accomplished by calling around at this point. You want me to call 20 distributors to find out what their price might have been? They're sold out to the LE, I've had several people PM me and say they can't find a LE well maybe they're still at Automated for $8400 but the street price LEs are not around any more.

#199 8 years ago

I'm in the LE, (confirmed by my distributor).

Pretty excited...can't wait to play.

#200 8 years ago
Quoted from rai:

While I appreciate your input, it's a little Monday Morning QB of you. People are lucky to find a LE period. There is no calling around. Either you have one secured or you don't. I'm not sure what's being accomplished by calling around at this point. You want me to call 20 distributors to find out what their price might have been? They're sold out to the LE, I've had several people PM me and say they can't find a LE well maybe they're still at Automated for $8400 but the street price LEs are not around any more.

The comments about the $1,200 - $1,500 delta were being made right after GB was announced. My comment was that people 'needed' to call around, not 'need' as you are right... there is no point in calling around now.

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