I agree with all your statements except this. I've personally seen backglasses burst while the person is just standing there holding them. Temp changes in your hands from outside temp is drastic enough of a change, will cause tempered glass to pop instantly. I've seen it with backglasses and playfield glass on way more than one occasion. The person is standing there with a pile of diamonds in front of them and 2 big chunks of cracked glass in their hands. If you have been in pinball long enough, you will see it first hand on many occasions.

I think it's hilarious that people care about a screened backglass compared to a translite sitting up against a piece of glass.

I find the OP question a little strange imo. The big "un-moddable" difference is the cab and translite artwork. If you like the LE cab/translite artwork and don't mind the price difference get it, otherwise get the prem. Pretty straight forward. And dependent on personal preferences. No right answer.

Getting the cab art and translite from the LE is probably the easiest thing to mod a prem to be like. Just need scans and a print shop.

Bastardized pins to that degree are <1% with little cache so they are not a reasonable comparator imo. I'm not seeing any newer pins with modded cab side art being done or for sale. >99% will buy the pin they want based on theme and art and price and only do minor mods.

The LE cabinet artwork is just so in your face......that I had to have it!

If a premium and a LE were side by side, I'm not sure I'd even notice the premium. The LE just stands out!

This is my first nib Stern. Art wise, this is everything I could hope for. Very excited for this game!

Anyone with LEs left?

Is that really the only difference? I could do that in a couple days.

I'm actually glad you brought this up. I assumed because my AMH was much heavier that it was real glass and obviously I am very careful. But, it's good to know what can happen so I am even more cognizant of the issues of real glass. I would imagine being in Florida the extreme temperatures probably won't be as much of a problem. Still, always good to be cautious so thanks for the heads up. I wouldn't really have given it any thought unless you posted it.

Maybe I have not seen enough, who knows right?
I have only seen playfield glasses repeatedly broken (due to poor handling), not backglasses in over two+ decades with exceptions at several trade shows:

The only way this happens is backglasses are being stored improperly in locations of extreme temperature (including garages, shops, trucks, or trailers), lacking protective edge trim molding, or being placed on hard surfaces such as concrete or hardwood floors.
I saw one glass lost for example after an owner removed the backglass during setup after it had been sitting in a trailer outside for 24 hours in the winter, although I mentioned to wait several hours. He also sat it down on a hard floor, touching the left bottom edge first with no padding, and *bam*. Molding did not save the glass because it was too cold. I doubt he made that mistake again. I did help clean up the glass, and tried to make him feel a little better as I stated he could find a replacement for this title.

These are all examples of mishandling as already mentioned, and are a big "no no".
New backglasses later than 1982 generally tempered glassed that are shattering "diamonds".
Early glasses from 1950 to 1976 are heavy "plate glass" are "shards" unless a reproduction, and sometimes the damage can be repaired, if the shard breaks on a corner.

I own many backglasses (>80) (not spare translites) and downsized from well over a hundred (circa 1950-2012), and if they are not in games as either spares or collection, they are stored either in padded boxes upright in wooden slots (this is very important), or in solid wood frames displayed.
It is an absolute anxiety nightmare when moving that many glasses in compared to those installed in games.
I am not sure how many I have to own to have experience in handling whether game ownership or independent, 500? 1000?
They do not "explode", unless you are careless along the edges, flexing the glass, or a direct shot to the glass considering temperature variations.
If the glass IS already damaged (chipped or cracked), it CAN be lost.
Not sure what is going on here, if a backglass is in "good working order".
You use what is called the "two hand center hold" along the top and bottom of the glass on channels.
One hand gets you into trouble easily.
I have never seen a seasoned collector make that many mistakes with backglasses.
If they have, they rarely want to admit the folly, and they never do it again.

As I stated let the reader decide what is true, I am not here to debate my experience either, this is leads to bad points of order.

2-3 minute period, Rocky "pinball machine vandalism" (Rocky III).
Sound effects are pretty comical.

Nobody should be afraid to own real "true" backglasses.
WHBJM was plexiglass, but was ink screened, probably due to cost reasons, not handling problems.
This is complete paranoia projected onto new collectors in this hobby.
This should be not directed onto others.
Every game earlier than 1984, with a few manufacturer exceptions (plexi) are real glass.
The change occurred based on conditions in the industry of manufacturing due to advances is plastics technology, cost considerations, and convenience to operators who faced vandalism issues.
True backglasses are almost always better in colors, vibrancy, and quality, including mirroring unless there were mistakes in reproductions or factory originals.
Mirrored translites do not look the same.

Otherwise every reproduction backglass would be a translite and there would be no secondary market for such items other than originals.
There is even a market for real backglasses for games that were originally translites and this is just not CPR.
Shay's Arcade obtained licensing for nearly all early Bally, Williams, and Gottlieb games in the last 6 months alone.
They are ALL backglasses with a few exceptions either due to original concept, or production issues.
Games that originally had glasses were reproduced for the same reasons, not just for "completeness".

The bottom line back to this thread point, is NOBODY knows what the composition of the GB LE backglass as it applied to a sales pitch.
Maybe made the backglass out of lexan so it "super safe".
I guess then everybody is sort of a winner.

I remember how hot another green Stern pin was supposed to increase in value.

Avengers Hulk LE was green and limited and one sold at auction yesterday for 4700 new in box. Blue Avengers LE last month sold for 4600 out of the box new so people could play it

If a backglass is done correctly, there is a HUGE difference in quality.
Check out an original Taxi BG and a remade translite, for a simple example.
It has nothing to do with "Marilyn" or "Lola" either.

Just like there is a big difference between the original oil painting sample art and the production backglass, there are also huge differences.
I can attest to this as a pinball art collector, and they are expensive, not just because they are "rare".
Properly ink screened backglasses for highly rare quality games cost big $$$ as well.
Loch Ness Monster anybody?
If you can find a prototype glass, sometimes the production quality is even HIGHER as well, due to it being evaluated by management for approval.
They wanted to make a superb example to "show off" the black lines, mirroring, transparency, etc.

Modern production standards of backglasses (translites in most cases) are pretty lacking, so in this case it does not mean much anymore.
Fluorescent lighting in Stern pinball machine is not a suitable means to illuminate a "true" backglass.
It looks like complete $#@.
That is why most people use LED light backbox panels and rip that PoS out of their modern games.
I should probably take a photo of original older backglass with a fluorescent light behind it.
Everybody is going to hate the view.
LEDs make the situation of real backglasses even WORSE because they cause "pinpoints" if not done correctly in intensity, and even then offer no real advantage exception heat reduction against backglass damage and bulb replacement.

I would take an original good condition backglass over a translite any day, especially if done properly with general light placement.

If someone buying an LE and doesn't care about the backglass quality, why not buy a Premium?
The artwork is really the only difference of value, unless someone treasures signatures or a complete "status" gold plaque.
Both of the last items can be obtained without buying an LE (and lie), unless there is some type of unique feature code or whizbang playfield feature.
None of that was listed for GB LE, and it still even had a DMD.

If you like the art, theme, and can afford it, you bought it.

Very good point and one I've considered as well. I do like the green although hopping into one of the pinball refinery premiums is a pretty interesting idea.

I love the LE side art, but cannot justify the cost difference when it will be "hidden" in my row of pins anyways. I do not like the LE backglass as much as the Premium. The biggest difference that concerns me is the gameplay with the magnetic slings. Hopefully, they will be a really great innovation, and if they are, then I'm sure they will use them in many future games. I just don't want to spend this kind of cash to "find out". Premium for me....probably next year, because I still have a RZ on it's way. On a side note....I will also be able to play the
LE every Monday night at league, so that helps curb my ownership enthusiasm.

Big difference is one is the hulk and the other is Ghostbusters which absolutely decimates the hulk as far as popularity. Not to say people don't like the hulk - it's just that people LOVE the ghostbusters and considering they've been denied for so long and most recently slapped in the face with a garbage remake (IMO), the hunger is even stronger. If the code and gameplay turns out, this will be Stern's biggest pin BY FAR. NIB LE price will be through the roof considering the limited US run (250).

Anyone has an Avengers for this price send me a PM, I'm interested.

Good points. I think what hurt Hulk LE value wasn't necessarily the Hulk character himself but rather the games audio, rules, artwork, layout, and license package. Had all of those items been done right I'm sure the game would be worth much more today. Does Avengers even have any of the film actors voices in it?

Ghostbusters just seems to have it all. Just think if the toy / feature offering wasn't as good as what's been shown, there was no Ernie Hudson doing callouts but rather a random voice actor, no callouts pulled from any actor from the films and then photoshop artwork all over the playfield. Ugh. That would have been terrible but thankfully none of that happened.

Licensing can really make or break a game. I love The Walking Dead but I just can't buy the pin as it lacks custom callouts from one of the actors, they are not represented on the playfield (only the cabinet as if it's an advertisement and was ok there) and none of the actors voices and stories are tied into the games audio and rules. Theme attachment is why a lot of people drop $5k-$8k on these games and at those prices I expect for Stern to at least get original audio and character likeness rights.

Would've been nice if the LE had some more little things like PDI glass and inner side art, but zero reason to downgrade if you already got one. This baby will sit on the outside of the row to show off all the slime glory!!
On a side note, I'd like to see this next to the SMVE....

Why when there is a premium that plays exactly the same and will be readily available? Tron is different since there was no premium and the only other LE to go up in price was AC/DC. BIBLE was hands down the best looking version and that is why it's sought after. Even STLE had the laser cut armor with lights not offered on the premium. I don't see GBLE being as sought after when many prefer the look of the premium. Unless you really want slimer artwork or a real fake backglass then I don't see people paying out the ass for the LE. Maybe I'll be wrong and only time will tell, I just love how everyone hopes to have the next anomaly on their hands.

I do agree that Stern should be including more in LE's other then powder coated armor and a unique artwork package. It's as if Stern know's people will just buy an LE because it's limited so why put more in it. Don't get me wrong I think Ghostbusters LE looks incredible but is there $1500 in extra's there? No way.

Now look at Star Trek LE for example. There's powder coated laser etched side armor that lights up, a stainless steel speaker grill, and the head of the cabinet has a cool Starfleet logo that sticks out and lights up as well. Now those are the types of features that should be included at the LE level.

Also, Stern really needs to do away with the tiny "LE plaque". I put "LE plaque" in quotes as it's just so cheesy looking. Stern did a nice job on WWE LE but including a cool plaque with a signature on it. Personally I think Stern should do away with the current "LE plaque" design and put something like below tied to the theme in the middle of the apron. A signature doesn't have to be there but the number of the game could be laser etched into the metal.

Capture_(resized).JPG

I can barely see my XMEN LE's # and that's only if I lean forward and squint. Hey I can finally read the number when it's this close, lol. Seriously the damn game number text is smaller then the "all rights reserved" text. This isn't just on GB LE but rather all Stern LE's. It needs to change. For $8k there should at least be a cool laser etched plaque with the game number.

Capture1_(resized).JPG

I think it comes down to this - people love collectors editions that are rare (especially Pinball players). Not to say it's looks/plays, etc better - the fact is only 250 and I have one of them. It's that simple - although just my opinion. Could be wrong.

btw - I'm surprised about how many people love the LE look. I would have thought it would be less. That also will help.

I loved the look of the LE, and it did affect my decision.
One reason is, I dont have a Green game, and never have.

Regarding value...time will tell, but with an average of 5 per state, it appears that
there could be demand strong enough to hold value.

Not every buyer is involved in the hobby enough to say, Ill take a Premium, for game play.

Here in Orlando, I'm aware of many customers that live in homes starting in the millions, athletes, professionals, etc.

A $10,000 toy...any pin game, is a gift, or casual purchase.

So they are likely sold out. The public is not yet aware. We have a movie, and tons of merchandise being released.

Will this last? Will it spur demand? Will there be hundreds of people looking for an LE at Christmas? No idea.

Normally, I always shoot for HUO Premium, as the best value, but everything from Art to playfield hooked me,
even having seen stuff for a year, this was over the top impressive!

LE or Premium? Who cares....? We all win with another great Pin in Pinball History!!

Just grateful and Happy all around.....We are all very Lucky!!!

If the game is a hit, then the LE will hold its value or go up in price relative to the premium. If the game is a dud, then it might lose a little compared to the premium, but it should always fetch more. I can't think of an example where the LE and the premiums command the same amount of money in the secondary market. Every game has its fans, even the less popular ones.

I think it's interesting how everyone already assumes that GB will be a big hit. I seem to recall the same reaction to TWD when the first photos of the game were revealed. Once people actually started playing it, however, they weren't nearly as enthusiastic. It turns out that Lyman's code ultimately saved the game, but it was kind of dicey there for a while. GB looks pretty sweet, but it's definitely premature to call the game a hit. This is precisely why I stopped pre-ordering games sight unseen. I'd rather wait a year or so for the code to mature and then judge the game at that time.

If you buy pins in the hopes that they will make you money you are crazy. LE's do not historically hold their value. They are not like comics or stamps or coins. I've owned several LE's and not one has increased in value. We all think the next LE to come out will be the next Tron. Honestly.....I'm still waiting. Did it happen with X men? Avengers? Met? Kiss? Wwe? Walking Dead? Got? Mustang? Transformers? Ac/dc? Avatar? If you like the pin then buy it, but don't for a second think the LE is going to guarantee you immunity to depreciation as soon as you set it up. The only way you might one day make a big return is if you keep it in the box, it becomes a huge hit and you sell it nib 10 years from now....that's a big if.

Sorry for the rant. I understand a lot of this is excitement and buildup for a new product. Just keep things in perspective a little.

This pin looks awesome, that being said I'm waiting to see how it plays out since I'm in for the SMVE and may consider getting the Got's as well.

That will last for awhile, also I think I would lean to the pro since I like the pro models I own now.

I'm impatient and like to get the game sooner is why I buy LEs, I would take a premium every time if they were first off the line.

We ordered a Premium and could not be happier.
There was just nothing about the LE (Except the shaker that is pretty cheap now), that would make me spend more.
But I am happy for all the LE buyers out there. It is a great pin if you like those extras.

I am normally with you on this. For the first time ever, I am willing to take the risk and buy sight unseen right out of the gate. The game has the look, so it's basically this: will it be a hit or not? It it is, I come out ahead and can keep it, or enjoy it for a few months and sell if there is a drought in production and make a lil' money or lose a lil' money but still say I had fun and enjoyed the game for a couple months.

OR....it could suffer the same fate as Avengers/Transformers by being super-desireable before release only to fall on its face once released.

With GB, I dunno, I just don't see that happening. I 100% agree with your example on TWD; however, all the likable characters have nearly already been seen on the GB preview. We have characters from GB I and II on the pf, and we have seen clips of all 4 of them on the DMD already (preview video from last week). We've seen Stay Puft and the hell hounds on the DMD as well; this game is embracing its characters rather than pushing them to strictly the cabinet art via TWD (which FTR, I am 100% good with; I like feeling like I am the one surviving TWD).

Some people are saying this will be Stern's next MET. I dunno, that is a very tough climb-upwards. MET has one thing in its corner that will be tough to overcome: masterfully polished code from arguably Stern's best software engineer in Lyman Sheats. THEN again.....Dwight Sullivan has done STTNG, Sopranos, TSPP, and LOTR....

So yep, based on those factors, I dropped my deposit on the Prem, and 3 days later now, I know that was a smart move with no regrets. Hell, even if the game is a dud, it will be electric eye-candy.

Don't forget POTC and GOT

Kinda Crazy! I dont buy pins always for the purpose of making money, but I dont ignore it either.
Its not a "business" anymore, but still there are prices everywhere, that have opportunities.

Buying new for a profit is crazy hard, if not impossible, but If youll excuse my arrogance, there are a few tricks.

I have first been using the highest reward CC to get some cash back. Chase Sapphire will give $500 back now with a $4000 purchase. They have gone as high as $700 back on $5000 last year.

An easy Start. If your credit is good, Apply for one card in your name, so you can apply later for another in your wife, or even cosign one for a child.

Last year, I received 3K back from this.

Look into an Equity Line. This varies from State to State, but in Fl, there are/have been offers 1.99% for 12 months, Zero out of pocket to open. Great for consolidating all dept and with a Tax benefit.

So a Pin of say a $10,000 value...So your monthly Interest only, (If credit is strong) is $16.66.
One could get a Premium GB, and an Aliens Pin for about $25 a month to rent!

Maybe sell them both after a year, and with some good planning, its quite possible to break even.

Lastly, Consider creating a business.....Its not as hard as it seems. And things start costing less.
Youll have filings, State and Federal and some record keeping. But also deductions, write offs, and even sales tax savings on games! There are great easy books like "Business or Incorporate for dummies, etc)

Youll get to depreciate your purchase, and the interest is a business expense!

My apologies for stepping in like this...I normally keep quiet on this, but in 44 years, Ive only lost money on 2 pins.
...I have my procedures coming up, and have wanted to share this for a while...I thought it would be OK here to share my opinion.

Obviously shop for price, keep the game running well and Enjoy!

I have chase sapphire card , how exactly do I get $400 cash back from them ? Would this be instead of getting points for travel?

Agreed, the more I get into pins, and owning them; I find myself gravitating towards the late 80's thru mid 90 pins from all manufacuters, B/W, DE and Gottlieb over the Sterns.

That being said, GB looks awesome; and I'm excited to play it.

Way too early to turn the corner yet, but I have heard so many people say GB will be their first NIB, makes me wonder how this will effect Stern's next Title......Or how many people are pulling money out of Aliens, Hobbit, etc, etc, for this game?

I think there are a lot of people that are getting GB in addition to those games.

The opposite effect is happening to me....lately pins that I used to really covet are starting to look old and boring.....even some "A" list titles.

Buy backs or sold?

I have no problem agreeing with this 100%. AFM is the only one in my radar anymore in terms of "will own one day" A-list titles, and to know for what I bought GB Prem for that I am NOT far off from AFM at all makes me go "wow......it is actually possible..."

I was just on the Chase site looking at the Sapphire and the fake name they are using is D. Barret, could very well be Dana Barrett, lol. Maybe Chase is hoping that Ghostbusters fans will get their card, haha.

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some recent ones i've seen.

At midwest gaming classic. After the show was over. Getting ready to break the game down. he takes the glass out. Just holding it for 5 seconds..and pop. No weather changes nothing. Been at the show all weekend. He wasn't cold or hot. It was nice outside.

Second one, was one of my playfields glasses. I'm fixing something on one of my games. Take out the glass. hand it to him to hold as i go grab a tool. and all of a sudden I hear it raining diamonds. he's standing there holding to pieces of glass and diamonds all over the gameroom. Again he wasn't doing anything but holding it. He now has the title Mr.hotpaws and not allowed to touch any of my backglasses.

I've been up and down the grail list over the last 5 years and have been more about value of late. Not written in stone, as I have an AMH I got NIB in 2015.

I'm totally fine picking up a HUO premium. If I can't get it locally, the shipping kills most of the savings. It is nice getting a game after its had a few code releases.

As for LE vs Premium, art and such is totally subjective. It looks like stern did a great job as people seem to have reacted very positively to all three models. LE art isn't for me, so it's likely premium. I won't rule out the pro as it looks very fun and is always the best price. No better deal than a used pro.

New card applications only.....they do this as a buy in for customers that are new.

The whole warm hands shattering cool glass scare is a bunch of dog poo. There's not a set of hands warm enough to heat even the coldest piece of glass fast enough to cause it to just shatter from rapid molecular change. If this were the case, no glass ever made from the beginning of time would hold up in cold winter months. When your car heater was blasting on the windshield, before the days of tempered or safety glass. They're are model t fords from wisconsin with the original glass. Also there'd be a ton of fishing and hunting shacks and old houses with hand formed glass windows laying in crumbled piles outside every building in wisconsin and other. Cold winter mornings at freezing Temps and that hot morning sun is hitting it directly at much higher temp, no breakage. Could go to an old hunting or fishing shack or cabin, below zero out, start a wood fire, rapidly heating to room temp and even with the extreme cold temp hitting the outside and warm heating the inside, you could tap it or have a small branch or bird or whatever hit that glass, no breakage.
Only way I see backglass breaking is poor handling. Maybe handling the very edges of opposite corners, and holding it parallel to the floor, possibly walking with it could cause the glass to flex and the corners to break off, then shattering on the floor.
Otherwise the physics would negate otherwise.
I've had old games in a garage that was 20 below zero, brought it in my house at 73 degrees, and handled the glass and no breaks. I've hauled and unloaded games in that kind of weather and brought them inside, hauling down stairs, jarring every step down, then unwrapping, setting up, handling the glass, checking everything over, and no breakage. Yes I waited to turn the machine on after a couple hours.
Just my 2 cents worth. Supported by science, physics, logic and real life examples that can't be refuted.

I think it would be more likely in these scenario that someone is wearing a ring, or other jewelry, and it touches the glass the wrong way. We all know that simply tapping a piece of glass when the universe is aligned can cause it to shatter. Rare, but it happens. I do agree that "warm hands" would be the most unlikely scenario - touching the glass with jewelry, doing a minor bump or hit of the glass on something, etc, would be a far more likely reason.

Oh. Sorry. I chose either one you can afford and want. Either way, you're luckier than most who can't afford either, or have another disease, like building a hot rod.

I personally concede to PinSide preferred wisdom in this case:

"Don't buy new games with "real" backglasses, the backglasses are guaranteed to explode at the speed of light"!
(This will allow others to continue to buy games like Champion Pub at reasonable prices)

Sounds like a complete winner in my book.
It will also keep the cost of every SS and EM game before 1984 down in cost as well.
"Go, Team PinSide, Go".

I would just keep it simple and say do you like the Green Armor or not? Do you want to risk having the game not be what you thought since you had to be in on the LE early? Do you want to be a little patient and see how things play out then get a premium, hunt for an LE or skip?

In thinking about whether an LE could go up in value, yes it could happen. In order for it to happen it has to be a top 20 game and look "stunning!" or "badassed!", like acdc BiB or Tron. The top 20 we will see, but look at GB LE and ask yourself "Is this pin stunning or look badassed?".