For that price, they should use the space in the bottom of the cabinet and include a DJI Phantom 4 drone...

Putting a number on it is meaningless.

"I got #5555, just like I asked!"
"How many did they make?"
"Um, 784..."
"Oh..."

People are a whole lot more likely to say how they feel about the price-to-value ratio on a site like this or to their friends rather than directly to the designer that has no control over business choices or the company figurehead that may get defensive.

Further Jack and Pat are never going to say anything negative or relay that they have recieved any sort of negative feedback. I would not expect them to not want them to. I would hope that they would listen, maybe acknowledge that they got some great feedback and quietly make a few small adjustments before starting production.

Great post! Like you, I was a very early JJP supporter and became frustrated and walked away from the purchase before WOZ shipped. I've had several opportunities to "bend some influential ears" over the years and nobody really cared. I didn't take it personally, because "they" were still riding high. Unfortunately, many people only start listening after it's too late. To be honest, the industry attitude and products are just a big turnoff. Love my current lineup and don't plan on spending any money on any NIB pins. All the recent JJP/Stern offerings don't excite me, and I know I'm not alone.

i just want to say jjp is on point with his price for dialed in ...considering the price some people paid for his past machines ...woz or hobbit ...wizard of oz came out 2013 ..3 years ago almost 4 and by the time dialed in is ready it will be 4 years ..inflation alone would drive the price 4.4% increase ...thats basically 420 bucks addition to a 8000 dollar game ...

He can call it whatever he wants but it does have the powder coating the special editions have of woz and hobbit and a ton of other things that the previous machines dont ....and considering the company does not run to the local walmart for the toys that are in his machines like stern does and has artist developing the stuff ...there are a lot of cost involved that stern does not....

if you wanna be cranky batman 66 price is where you should be looking .... i will always support original themes ... the best machines in pinball are original themed thats what pinball should be artistry or at least thats what ive always appreciated about it ....small business in america is a tough and can be a very slippery slope... im sure its very hard to juggle and compete with the pinball giant....

Bit offtopic but in Finland you can buy for 12500 following Lawlor titles:

TZ
TAF
NGG
RS
FH
(Or at least 4 of those)

So it will be very_ hard to sell machines to old continent... These prices are ridiculous nowadays.

I think even way beyond. I think every theme handled by JJP will result in a fantastic pin. I even think dialed in will be awesome in the fun department.

But..... besides a few rich pin hardcore fans, nobody will jump on board. A few hundred max.

That is the main reason why this is such a let down.

Imagine this team, and the carpet went of thursday and something came up like vulcanos, or earthshaker, or countless other mindblowing themes. Than this pin would make JJP number 1 instantly.

Now, he needs to survive this down time in selling pins and hope next one will blow the masses their mind.

When this pin dialed in does make it to be a big selling succes, i will be the first one that says, ok i was wrong.

Am i a JJP hater??? No way!! I love JJP pins, i want to see more and more in the future. But this is just a way to big of a risc. When it was not even necessary thinking of the zillions original ideas you could pick out.

I just dont understand jack on this. You can blame pinside, or some guys on it, for being negative. But fans are most of the time only negative cause they see the HUGE opportunity for pinball. And in my opninion this is a big chance waisted.

Lets all hope i am wrong and this pin will sell like pancakes. We will see, i am afraid this will be the best pin ever that never got sold (enough).

Batman's price is horrific, but they're justifying it with manufacturered rareness coupled with nostalgia, and collector types see value in that whether it makes sense or not. Dialed In doesn't have that. So what customers are reacting to is: Weird theme. Bad art. High price. DOA.

Despite all that, if DI was priced at $7000 it would sell 1000's. Who knows, it may still do so but the price is the number 1 downer.

Batman 66 was a kind of one off in that it hit the nostalgia button at 100% like a heat seeking missile!

I will say that this is the first pin I feel might actually be worth putting dollars bills into on location.

I'm calling the LE the Lawlor Edition, kind of like a directors cut, there they can sell as many as they like.... problem solved

Still super excited to play as it does look crazy fun to me as a pinball fan regardless of theme/title.

As far as theme goes, I do hope that maybe I'm just too old now (38) to get it and this pin achieves one of Jacks main goals... to introduce young kids to pinball... have a game that attracts them they can cut their teeth on and then as they grow up appriciate the debth that they put into their games... kind of like how disney movies are able to appeal primarily to kids but still keep enough adult content that they are enjoyable by the adults too (even though the theme isn't their first pick), then the kids grow into the jokes and it becomes a classic.

And honestly now that I think about it the name, being short and simplistic like that, does kind of remind me of what you may name an app for the phone... so maybe even the name is meant to draw the apphead kids.

Another thought is that these might be a good fit for children's museums?

This blows my mind - gameplay is not going to save the game, gameplay IS the game.

This also blows my mind, people are asking JJP to take things off the game now Everyone who has played it has said that the camera is an awesome feature. We have a manufacturer making innovative full featured games - buy something else if you want a game will less features.

I would but sadly I fear the closest location I would be able to find one will be about 3 hours away.

I 100% agree with everything you said.
Thanks for typing it all out so I don't have to.

CHEERS
PCHOP

Crossing my fingers one shows up here in Seattle!

Would you consider the fact that some people would like a "pro version"? Is that hard to figure?

You will be one of a few hundred that buy the "LE version" or whatever it is. Congrats if you like it.

A way to get the price down is to strip stuff out. That's how you sell cheaper pins to those that want "cheaper".

And that's what's coming next with JJP and this pin, a stripped down version because they will sell LOW numbers of the $9500 version

At $2k to $5k per pin, I'll agree that game play is nearly all that matters. But in the new weird $9k world, the game has to have some curb appeal and in the LE world something that really makes the game somewhat limited to attract collectors with fairly full game rooms. Dialed In has a terrible name, confusing theme, poor art, irritating sounds, and would seem to be aimed at younger people to play in arcades, yet is priced not like a route game but like a collectors game. Fun game play will be enough to sell some people, but i can't see this game selling many units. For instance, the Pinside rating system has more than a dozen rating areas for a game, more than just game play, though that can be broadly interpreted.

I'm sure the new pricing reflects JJP's current business model. Financially, at the current production rate, the bean counters determined this is what a game needs to sell for to pay the bills. Employees are expensive, maintaining a manufacturing facility is expensive. Unless JJP can get more product out the door the numbers will not add up. Unfortunately, raising the price will likely reduce sales. It is a common practice for small businesses to raise their prices when things are financially tight. This strategy typically doesn't end well unless the demand for the product is outstripping the company's capacity. The other way to fix things is to reduce costs. My guess is we will be hearing about who is leaving JJP when the "raise the price" strategy fails.

I see Jack has directly said that there will be a standard edition.

Stainless steel armor, no invisiglass , etc.

Not priced out yet.

Price it at $6999 and we have a big winner!

Taking a shaker off, changing the trim, and switching the glass of is like $500 less when your buying these things in bulk.. not $2k

Add on accessories always have the biggest margins in any industry.

Haha

I enjoyed the game, played it a bunch of times this weekend. Got to even try out the cellphone flipper button play while standing away from the machine. I'll stay out the the money talk on it. I just enjoy the game can't wait to get it

How did the games hold up over the weekend? Any issues? They were problem-free on the first day, did that continue?
Just wondering, because it seems like they might have their engineering and build process dialed in now.

I see what you did there...

Ok, I finally read all the posts.
Let's add the truth a bit now.
Jack said to owners google group that there will be a standard - all the moaning about price should die down when we see a price more like $8k like the woz and th.

It will make the prices revealed on other titles be much higher - and jjp has $300 glass and $130 shaker included.

Directly also from jack - The 6999 is for an LE # selected by buyer - its not production quantity. I think it's a deliberate jest at LE "rarity" - its the extra stuff that make it an LE not a production run number (Jack has said that many times in the past).

Jack posted all that on owners group before posts in this thread, so I hope nobody here tries to takes credit for # of LEs or a lower $ standard.

Expect jack will take reaction of expo and adjust theme and / or title - I agree, it could be done with decal changes in side art, without needing pf or code redesign - dialed in could be easily a subtitle left intact.

Only 20% coded per pat, so lots of room to shift title focus and gameplay.

Code complete in 8 months for end of 2q seems feasible, plenty of room for dialed in content to be "dialed back", and disaster fixit theme to come to foreground.

Quantum City +1 & 'the hard hats can be the Quantum Mechanics.

Gameplay seems to be thumbs up feedback in this thread and show attendees and YouTube videos. Gameplay is everything.

I'm not in on any new releases -yet. Strongly leaning toward this jjp game. Not concerned - jjp is listening and will adjust

Play will determine my decision. Pats shot map and toys seems pretty damn good. The cell phone constant ring will go away - anyone remember the never ending "the journey is the reward " ? Did that annoying thing stay in WoZ ? Nope .

Keefer, PDL and jjp wont let this game stand as is - It's got 9 months to go .

I'm optimistic on this one being a polished gem come production time.

I pretty much agree, but $8k...that's still a lot! $7500 would be my sweet spot that would likely entice me into one. $8k, I'm probably out.

7k for a standard and I will buy one. They can make more in volume then high margins.

Well he's wrong about that

And its designed to keep selling new LE versions later to people

Sorry but who would buy an LE without any clue what the number is? Terrible arrogant fail imho

The whole LE thing is BS anyway. It just comes down to trim really.

Another misrepresentation by Jack. Game #3 would be ready to ship upon announcement, ala Stern. Obviously not the case as they continue to take deposits. 9 months?

Hopefully they get it done but i heard the same stuff 2 years ago at Expo with TH

So buy the whatever cheaper version, right? Just don't count on getting it when they say.

I think what he's trying to say is that it's not intended to be limited... If thats the intent tho I agree that it was pretty dumb to call it Limited Edition and put a number on it... but not a lot about the presentation didn't seem really planned or polished.... but we love them for pinball not for being powerpoint warriors.

Should have called it what it is... a premium... if you want to call it "LE" spell it out as Lawlor Edition... shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Oh boy.

Yes, the reveal sucked, and a few opinions like it's a cell phone game are way off.
Jack's sense of humor or anyone's, doesn't translate well 3rd hand paraphrased through social media. Especially through all that was happening here. Pizza wars, drinking, Petty competition.
Try this. Throw out all that was said, and when
you can, play the game!!!
Then decide. Right?
Isn't that what we say to everyone who makes a help me decide thread?

It's built like a tank. Plays smooth and easy with so much going on.
Not for everyone's taste.
But Road Show meets Funhouse with Ripleys mixed in.
Even for me looking at the videos. It doesn't capture what you "feel" playing this one.
Not the same as other games.
There's a news ticker, you can change the weather, you fight Acid Rain.

All I'm saying after catching up on the reading, is play it and decide
There's a reason 5 games had lines, and laughter and smiles were all that was seen.
It grabbed more ladies, teens, and kids, and the old farts like me, and England, Sweden, and everywhere else felt good about the game.

Regarding a "lower" model.

Yes, there were conversations about what might be done to help lower the price and differentiate models, more than just a number, glass and powder coating. Who knows.
I want one, and the only complaint heard anywhere at the show was price.
Nothing I heard about name, phone rings, etc.
I think those that were bothered simply stopped playing.

Then why is it $9500 shipped? I seriously don't get it?

What's the difference between a Standard and a premium? Is he adopting the Stern model?

Nvm, its typical Jack BS. Carry on

Ice, don't get hung up on LE, etc from JJP.
It's a different game and so far somewhat meaningless here.
Batman, has a huge Art difference.
GB has many features.
I don't see that as the same as JJP.

Promises or statements of release are also meaningless.
The entire show proved that over and over.

Just take a step back, as no one is getting any of these new games soon.
Maybe even 6 months till stuff starts.
Plenty of time and shows for all new games to get code, and bugs out.
All vendors heard the collective bitching about games released too soon.
By the time Texas show comes, lots more people will play, more opinions, more code, etc.

Wait and see.....no reason to get focused yet.

Jack said the Standard would probably be no shaker, standard stainless hardware, and no Invisiglass.
The LE on this one is basically only meant to show the customer that it has all the bling and the customer can pick any available game number between 1 and 6,999 (said with a chuckle). Hopefully this is a purposeful signalling of the end of the Limited models.

I think it is great that there are no false expectations of a perceived scarcity value added limited concept with this new game. Unfortunately I also think the price is about $1500 too high to garner large sales figures.

WOZ was $6500 (which was a REACH at the time). What do you get when add 4.4% to that?

And then they jacked the price to $7500 for Hobbit, an even bigger reach.

And somehow $9000 is "on point" for Dialed in? Okay.

It's gouging, plain and simple. My foot is down. I will not buy anything new from them and same goes for Stern if they don't came back down to Earth after BM66. And I hope there are more people in my camp than yours or this gouging trend will continue .

Ok so the pick your number version up to 6,999 is $9500 shipped

And the Standard is $7500 without a shaker and invisiglass and stainless trim? wow, no brainer

So I'm slow to catch on but it appears JJP is poking fun at Stern for the LE? And its pricing? If so, that's rich and not funny

If i'm paying LE prices, I want an LE ######

That's why I probably will save my $$$ for Stern pins from here on out. Never thought i would say that but they are hitting my target

They aren't listening and trying to shove nonsense down people's throats

And how do you explain the HYPOCRITICAL announcement at the exact same time of another 750 BLACK ARROW TH LE'S?

Why wasn't that one 6,999?

Can't have it both ways, sorry? Just absolutely horrendous unveiling of a much anticipated pin

I only said that because every other post is harping the price tag...I personally think its fine how it is

Crazy how a broken Alien rushed prototype is trumping Dialed in which perfectly embodies the wackiness aspect of how pinball used to and should still be...Problem is we have all of these 5 years new to the game collectors who can't see past their favorite movies, shows or rock bands...

Will someone please explain the 750 LE announcement of the newly minted Black Arrow TH edition and how that is different from the 6,999 DI LE?

Are they trying to get away from LE's or not?

Remember, I was a Woz ECLE kool aid drinker x 1000, what now?

No price has been determined or stated publicly for the Standard.
I am sure they would sell well over a thousand at $7500 when you compare to the other NIB game prices available. I would not recommend anybody get their hopes up on the price. The manufacturers have jumped the shark on pricing.

They are trying to sell games. They (and Stern) have figured out that by calling something limited and adding $500 in parts they can sell it for 2k more. LE is BS!

Different strokes then. I personally did not buy my ECLE for the number. I bought it because we liked the package. I could care less about a number.

If you like buying games based on limited availability thats fine too.

The Black Arrow is basically a Standard edition with black trim (like Stern Premiums and Pros) and different art. It appears to be just another art package to generate interest in the base game sales.

Not for me. And many other buyers. And it will never change.

The moving price targets and production numbers from the carnival barkers aren't going to get it done with me.

Granted, I'm just one buyer that JJP just alienated, but I'm sure there are plenty of others.

DC, then why is it listed as an LE of 750 units? I see what it appears to be.

I never seen anything like the BS Jack keeps pulling.

After this expo, I'll just be happy with my Woz pin and done from here on out with them.

They are running some $12.5k version until people stop paying the price

And nobody has a f ing clue how many LE's are available for $9500?

And the standard that they should have been pushing to the masses is a mystery

The greed factor of JJP has dictated a horrendous marketing and sales strategy

By contrast, like it or not, Stern sold 80 SLE's for $15k, and 240 LE's for $9500 and premiums to come. No ambiguity there, like it or not

Different business models.

Stern does make bigger differences, and this fits you.

JJP released fewer titles, and generates revenue from cosmetic changes.

Not right for you, if you truly desire Limited Editions.

Some may Care more about the game, over
how many limited are made, for perceived
retention or appreciation.

Totally agree Art. I care about BOTH, the game with a great theme AND the limited nature

The only "perceived" part is what Jack is trying to create with no facts or ###'s and continuous editions

Can somebody just lay out what it is Jack is offering? No LE's, just a joke? How many "standard" versions are there?

I don't get it. But I'm having fun and getting a little intoxicated.

Help me understand with my feeble mind in a simple way.

What is the offering?

Stern BM66:

80 SLE $15k No more

240 LE $$9500. No more

Unlimited premium for $7600.

See how simple that is?

Jack is like a feather floating in the wind, what is going to be the story tomorrow?