What's one thing all those themes have in common?

You know exactly what to expect. Hook is a terrible theme, but you know what it's about. SWE1 should have been a good theme but the movie is terrible and JPOPs game is awful. Transformers is a great theme and a bleh game.

"Dialed In" doesn't tell me anything. What's it about, cellphones? How is that exciting or interesting? It's "Toaster The Pinball".

That's the issue - the name does not tell me anything about the game or what to expect, so it's a bad title.

Here's the thing, I'm a big proponent of people being stupid with their own $$$, I do it all the time.

But this whole story line, from both Stern and JJP is getting to be a f ing JOKE. It's almost like they are in collusion with one another on pricing.

Jack standing up there and the way they did that presentation was pure arrogance with the new Hobbit LE version to the smug assertion that he assumes all 6,999 will be sold quickly.

It's one thing when a sales guy acts like a sales guy but I think in the race to the sleazy bottom, Jack just jumped right over Stern, not that either really matters.

$12.5 k to "get it by xmas". Really? F ing Really? Have everybody lost their minds? Really?

"It's game over man, game over"

The difference this time around is that Jack can't afford to have the game 2 years away from shipping. I would not like to be Jack meeting with his investors when they see the feedback here and pre-sale orders. Speaking of investors, does it seem like both Stern and JJP went off the rails when new money came into both companies.

I have really tried not to get involved in the negative rants regarding pinball having jumped the shark and the crazy new price levels. In all honesty a figured $6-$7 was about the right price for NIB pins keeping inline with inflation from the 90's and overall drop in sales/production runs compared to those time. However going from wizard of Oz costing $6500 at launch to $9K for this game just seems more like profit taking. The sales numbers will determine which strategy works for the major manufactures I.e low run high margin, large run low margin.

And those games aren't $9k or 12k, they're $2k or 3k. After seeing the game and they started to mention pricing I thought, oh they're going to make it affordable, that's cool. Then they said $9k for the Limited and $12.5k for the Collectors. Yikes.

I agree but regardless it looks like a pin for toddlers, like RTycoon not that it won't be fun to play but I don't see many collectors wanting this in their game room.

Here's another one for you - Demolition Man.

Should be a good theme, but the terrible art and gruel-thin plot really turns people off. However, the game is gangbusters, easily one of my favourites.

But it's not an A-List game, no matter how much fun it is, because *the theme ruins it*. Dialed In could be the most amazing game ever but that title and the confusing theme are going to sink it.

Change it now while you still have time.

It does look fun and looks like a classic Lawlor pin. The problem is namely that Pat has a tendency to pick lousy themes for his games. They still end up being fun but in the last 22 years which Lawlor pins have what you'd consider a "good" theme? All of his Stern games besides FG were bad themes and most of his post TZ WPC games had lousy themes with the exception of NGG and possibly safecracker.

Hi Ben

Don't want to put you on the spot but as someone who actually knows a thing or two about making a pinball machine, do you think dialled in could of been profitable for JJP at say $7-$7.5k list price? Granted you don't have in side knowledge on the BOM or even the profit sharing arrangement between Jack and Pat. I'm just asking for a perspective to see if all of us are ranting because we feel that companies are starting to price gouge or if we all have it wrong and the cost of building games with these sort of features is way more then we would expect.

Regarding your above post, I think the difference is you can easily say AFM is Mars attacks unlicensed, MM is the holy grail etc.. However what is dialled in reference. Earthshaker, whirlwind had much clearer disaster themes. Time will tell and personally I think the short gameplay videos looks great, however it is a hard theme to translate in a single byline. Which when you going within an orginal theme probably makes for an even harder sell.

I was there. It was awkward. And quiet. I honestly felt bad for JJP.

I spent time afterwards watching people play. The game might have awesome gameplay; I haven't played it myself yet so I don't know. The sounds were extremely annoying; ringing phones and camera clicks non-stop- it literally drove me out of the room instead of continuing to wait for a turn to play. It's the exact opposite of the feeling I get when hearing the "Multiball" callout in Hobbit.

Hope we're all wrong and it turns out awesome... but even then... for 9k base? No thanks. Upon leaving I immediately cancelled my pre-order deposit I had made earlier in the day.

I play pinball to get away from cell phones.

So I guess we have to rethink this entire "$10k by Christmas". Think we should go to "$15k by Christmas" or shoot straight to $20k?

I have a Wii that's been taking my picture ad nauseam while I play games and it's been doing that for the last 15 years...

I like that JJP took a chance on an original theme though and it looks like fun, but price is redonkulous.

I don't think the home collector market was the target this time. This type of machine will be huge at a Dave and Busters or Main Event style location. Add a ticket dispenser and people will be glued to it. Only time will tell if this was a risky move or a huge advancement for the hobby as a whole.

Do you remember the day that pinball killed pinball? Seems this will be a question soon asked, now that the market is being flooded with high-priced pins.

People take chances on games like Roadshow, Demolition Man, Flintstones etc. With bad themes because of low price points. "Dialed In" may be fun, but for these new extremely high retail prices EVERYTHING must be near perfect to justify price INCLUDING theme. I just can't imagine this selling much at that price.

Ok who is going to do a Hitler Video?

Didn't get to activate it in my game. I could see it clearly even off-axis when watching someone else though. Will try to get some more time on it today.

In the presentation when Jack announced that there would be a 250 dollar deposit he literally says: "We don't want your money". Maybe more people should listen to him.

Oh and two minutes later they want a 1000 dollar deposit for the Collectors Edition. Didn't he just say he did not want our money and now he wants more?

I feel like he is like: you should be grateful that you are allowed to give me money. Well not so much.

edit: I own a WoZ LE and a Hobbit SE, so was hoping the best for this reveal, but I kind of feel being scre...

I remember Jack announcing Lawlor coming to design for him and he said "Jack ive got 3 ideas- here's game 1" jack replied after he finished game 1 "stop right there, dont tell me the other 2" we are going with that.

I really wish he had listened to the other 2. The problem is this theme is so odd it's going to make it so another original theme game never happens.

When doing something like an unlisenced theme you have 3 options.
1. You do something univerally interesting and safe. Robots, Magic, aliens, etc. (they could have made the game robot theme'd in a stern iron maiden art package idea and it woulda blown us away because the same tech could have been integrated)

2. You take an ancient or old expired license with adventure theme. Alice in Wonderland, treasure island, arabian nights, etc. By doing this you dont have the cost associated with licensing but do aomething recognized.

3. You steal ideas. What i mean is the way steven Spielberg and george lucas borrow alot of their cool stories from strange tales and weird tales comics. The could have easily based it on something they read from heavy metal comic and it would have been rad.

Interesting toys and tech although too complex for the casual player walking up to the pin an arcade.

As someone who works in business as a manager and merchandiser i see the problem here being mainly they dont know their audience, they dont have any young advisors/developers on the team with edge and they dont know how to play it safe when needed either.

This certainly has me thinking. The whole idea of a selfie mode seems ludicrous, but maybe this would do well in a modern kid-focused arcade?

But I want to add to the chorus that, as a pinballer, I never want to pull my phone out except to maybe photograph my high score at the end...

As apprehensive as I am to admit this, this $9k price really opens the door for American Pinball's Houdini to shine. If that game is comparatively fun at $7k...
What else is coming out in that "$7k and under" price point? I am hoping Stern's next title gets back to the $6k Pro model...

The number of players at our local arcade that I have to tell to press the start button on a game as they walking away(would never steal someone's credits I want everyone to enjoy pinball) is ridiculous, I mean seriously 30% of first time players I see don't know to press the start button. How the hell are they going to know to use there phone or take selfies etc... Seems like a cool idea in a marketing round table, in reality way off the mark.

$5K price model...$5K. Let's not give them any more ideas.

Alien is under 7k. So is Spooky's next game which is rumored to be 60s futuristic cartoon based.

I'm still very skeptical about Houdini. They have to have playable games I can see in person and games I can pick up when paid. I hope people don't start throwing money at bad ideas because of rising prices from the bigger manufacturers.

It's almost noon and still nothing?

Does the game require a monthly bill and a service contract. Can you pic your provider(at&t Verizon t-mobile) maybe they'll have a prepaid cricket version lol

The 5K USD Pro model will be back with the next release ... maybe $5500 USD because of the LCD.

If a pinball game ever asks me for a capitalized password and email address... it won't be pretty.

Retheme it as Futurama; that would turn it around.

Clearly no market research went into this. Pepsi clear, New coke, purple ketchup, Dialed in.....
They had 2 year's to be on pinside under pseudonym's, asking, survey, finding a popular way to move forward.
I don't care how it plays, I don't care how good it may be..
It's a horrible theme.
Missed the mark by 16 year's, this reveal should have been at Expo 16.
Any Jules Verne novel, Alice in wonderland would of been awesome.
To much thought went into this theme, as odd as that sounds.
I'm just happy how much money I saved yesterday. Pissed I didn't pick up a 5k GB I could of had last Sat...it only had 34 plays on it.

Does it at least use the picture to attach it to the high scores?

This is the main reason for my disappointment. I own 2 pins which are both original themes. It's not a big deal that I don't like DI, but it's a big deal that there may be no hope for future original titles.

I remember hearing the words "ridiculously powerful cellphone" and immediately I thought OH NO!

Who cares? I don't want a fucking machine taking my picture. I have to comb my hair now to play a game?
Shit, my phone is dying....we're can I charge it on machine, is there a plug underneath?

I had to run to calendar last night and make sure this wasn't an April Fools joke.
Sadly it's Oct, and 2016.
Grandpa, I mean Pat, I would of rather seen a rotary phone pin and the split up of MA Bell.
Oops, to late, I already own Who dunnit, and that phone can get annoying!

Amen

An LCD is way cheaper than a DMD.

LOL, wait! You think that Pinside is where they should come to get marketing information? Too funny!
I don't think they design games based on a pinball forums idea of what is cool. They are NOT the market Pinball manufactures are after. They are looking to the Dave and Busters, Main Event type of buyers. If they think it is cool then it will be made. And to be honest those big retail chains couldn't care less about the theme as long as it keeps people entertained for short periods of time and most of those people don't play pinball on a regular basis. Look at how many pinsiders hate the WOZ but yet it is one of the top earners on routes. Why? It's flashy and is something different from the same old BS we have had for years that almost killed the whole market.

Retheme as a horror movie where THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE!!!

Scenario: You are a babysitter and there is a psycho chasing you down! You got separated from the kids you were sitting and need to find them without getting killed yourself. Multiple "endings" with you saving yourself, others or everyone getting wacked! The phone integration could be the way you get info on where to shoot (or not shoot).

Moreover, your phone will be set to vibrate and not ring annoyingly. Or in a fit of strategy, you could turn on a "ringer" to distract the killer.

I only gave this idea 10 minutes of thought, but playing an intelligent female protagonist trying to save herself and others would be a very compelling narrative.

Yup, I remind people of that fact every time people say "don't be so critical, it's the gameplay that matters". My Road Show cost $1800. My No Good Gofers was $2200. My Addams was $2400. I don't have Funhouse anymore but when I did I got it for $1250. My entire Lawlor collection cost less than a Dialed In. Would I pay $9k for any of these games individually ? F no!!!

I was hoping for more discussion of how this plays vs the nauseous discussion of price points, profitability.

Well we did have some input with Smaug and the pf/ cab art. He changed those and it helped tremendously. Also MMR standards were not going to get the 2nd coat of clear we spoke up and PPS caved. I mean it's free, nothing wrong with a little public input.

Hitler doesn't get up till, at least, noon eastern time. By the time he gets his adrenaline shot and gets motivated it's 1pm so give him a little time yet!!!

Is the black arrow only cosmetically different from the le and se? If so I am happier with the se I have. If not what else is different? And by the way I much prefer a chrome pinball over a black, or any other color, pinball.

stoked Ryan is getting one for route so I can play it, assumed I'd only get to play one at a show at the price point.

I think he did...I believe all 3 were his ideas Monopoly, RCT and RBION. I don't know about CSI, but as you know he got into an argument with Gary Stern and left the game unfinished.

I figured I'd sleep on the reveal and give it a bit to settle in before saying anything. Well, I love WOZ and TH but this is a pretty big fail for JJP in many ways. That's a shame because I have no doubt that the layout shoots great. It really looks like a fun shooting game. You KNOW the code will be awesome. The player camera and internet capability are great (I think they are going down the path of head to head games over the internet). Cool little things like having the game automatically set at 6.5 deg with levelers all the in are nice. Game features sound cool. The theme underneath is even maybe passable if this was priced at $7500 max. But $9k?? GTFO. Then there is a laughable version at $12.5k!!! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHA! That, my friends, will be the rarest machine in existence! Who will buy that? Who is buying the $9k one? The name of the game is horrendous. Dialed In! WTF is that? We have no idea. Possibly the worst name of a game in the modern era. Whoever suggest the Quantum City name is right. Much better name and it leads you to believe you'll be traveling around the city for your missions in the game. The cell phone gimmick is also terrible. Who wants to play pinball using their phone??? I can't believe someone at JJP didn't flag this whole concept as not a good idea. Keith?? Ted?? Anyone? I guess it's what these kids are into these days...LOL! Ridiculous. Then we get to the toys. There is nothing really awesome. At least there is physical ball locks in that building thing, but Mick on a stick? Really??? C'mon Jack, why recycle a turd like that? It should have been like Drac in MB at least where you are actually hitting the toy instead of a damn target underneath!! Then it would be much better.

At $9k a machine must blow my socks off in almost every aspect for me to buy. Alien comes closest with these new releases, but fails in art and I'm not sold on the platform itself and the layout/gameplay yet.

Jack better accelerate the JJP4 schedule because this one will not sell well.

Where can you find a "modern kid-focused arcade" these days?

Played it again. Damn, it's fun. Really enjoy flipping this game. So conflicted because of the theme.

Movie theatres, Dave & Busters, Chuckie Cheeses, amusement parks, other kids play places.
But that was just speculation, I have no idea if this will do well anywhere.