(Topic ID: 222473)

Doodle Bug won't start

By ryanwanger

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

15346376843611232486958 (resized).jpg
15346366130201099856239 (resized).jpg
15346365492061507823414 (resized).jpg
8D1292F6-8AD6-4CE7-9E27-69CCE6F0247D (resized).jpeg
Doodle bug 10pt relay (resized).jpg
39B058FF-6CAE-43C1-B5AA-36E1A5A87753 (resized).jpeg
#1 5 years ago

When the start button is pressed to begin a game, the score reels correctly reset to zero (and stop trying to fire). Meanwhile, the ball count unit fires continuously (trying to decrement ball count), but never stops. If I set it to think there are multiple balls, it will count them down correctly, but when balls to play gets below one it just keeps on firing.

There is a switch on the unit which is closed when the ball count is above zero, and it opens correctly at the right time.

I've got a schematic, but I'm not super experienced with diagnosing stuff on EMs yet (and I see the ball count unit in the schematic in at least three different places).

It also looks to me like the up-post is quivering as well as it tries to start the game. And that makes sense, because the score motor continues to turn this whole time.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

#2 5 years ago

Update: I took out the Jones plugs in the head, and reseated them. Success!

Plunged, was able to flip while the ball was coming down. First thing it hits is a pop bumper, and the game goes dead with a blown fuse. At least I'm getting somewhere.

#3 5 years ago

I believe it is 10 point switches that blow a fuse.

I was able to trigger everything else manually on the playfield without causing any problems. Closing the various point relays in the backbox manually, each of them just scores once, but when I push the 10 point closed, it stays stuck closed (and then I manually open it quickly so I don't blow a fuse, because I don't have many left on hand - ha!).

#4 5 years ago

Coincidentally, there is an unattached wire at that relay. However, it was like that when I got it and has since been played a few hundred times without issue.

39B058FF-6CAE-43C1-B5AA-36E1A5A87753 (resized).jpeg39B058FF-6CAE-43C1-B5AA-36E1A5A87753 (resized).jpeg

#5 5 years ago

Doodle Bug is such a cool EM. I have only just played one recently. The rules for this title are really neat. The artwork is very cool as well. They didn't make but 600 of these so you really do not see them much. Hopefully yours is a nice one.

#6 5 years ago

Blown fuse could mean a bad coil. Check the match unit coil and the 10 point score reel coil..maybe one is burnt.

#7 5 years ago

ha, i jinxed you with my EM woes! sorry dad.

the detached wire, where does it lead to?

is it power or a ground?

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

but when I push the 10 point closed, it stays stuck closed

The 10 pt relay holds itself on until it sees the end of stroke switch on the 10 pt score reel open:
Doodle bug 10pt relay (resized).jpgDoodle bug 10pt relay (resized).jpg
I'd start by having a close look at the EOS switch.

/Mark

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

Coincidentally, there is an unattached wire at that relay.

What color is the wire, and what devices or relays can it reach? That would help find it on the schematic. Might it double up on the left solder lug of whatever relay is in your photo?

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

I'd start by having a close look at the EOS switch.

The EOS switch looks good to me. Opens when it should. Stays closed when it should.

The 10 point wheel spins fine when operated manually (and I just took it apart, cleaned everything, made sure the springs where the right tension, etc). Maybe the coil isn't pulling it far enough to open the switch? Hard to see this because the fuse blows within a second or two.

I could try loosening the spring to give the plunger more freedom, but also worried that it won't snap back after the coil fires.

Quoted from MarkG:

What color is the wire, and what devices or relays can it reach? That would help find it on the schematic. Might it double up on the left solder lug of whatever relay is in your photo?

Same color as the other wire attached to that coil. I'm 90% sure it came from that same lug. I guess there is no harm in attaching it and seeing what happens, but again, it has been working correctly for hundreds of plays with that disconnected.

#11 5 years ago

You could try to eliminate the EOS switch as a problem by putting a piece of folded paper in the other switch in that circuit: the normally open switch on the 10pt relay (blue-red to green-black). Then see if the relay still sticks on when activated. If that solves the problem one of those two switches, or the wiring around them is the issue.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from bonzo71:

Blown fuse could mean a bad coil. Check the match unit coil and the 10 point score reel coil..maybe one is burnt.

Have you checked the match unit coil? The 10 point relay advances the match unit.

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from bonzo71:

Have you checked the match unit coil? The 10 point relay advances the match unit.

Sorry, somehow I skipped over this the first time. You mean this? 8D1292F6-8AD6-4CE7-9E27-69CCE6F0247D (resized).jpeg8D1292F6-8AD6-4CE7-9E27-69CCE6F0247D (resized).jpeg

Haha! So replacing that might clear things up?

#14 5 years ago

I predict replacing that will fix your fuse issue. This was likely caused by a 10 point switch being stuck and the 10 point relay not deactivating.

#15 5 years ago

Since you are going to need to replace that coil anyway, just cut the wires off the lugs and see if the game stops blowing fuses.

#16 5 years ago

Cut off the match coil and everything works!

Looking at the schematic, I can see that the 10 point relay and the Number 2 Bumper Relay run to the Match coil. Why is it that a fried coil ends up making the 10 point relay stick closed? Just trying to learn.

Also, this makes me notice the Chime coil which should fire with the 100 and 1000 point relays...and realizing mine never did this. I look in the cabinet and see that the coil has been cut off completely and the mounting hardware on the chime box is gone.

Anyone have a pic from their machine they could share so I can see what that area looks like?

#17 5 years ago

Besides the pop bumpers, there are other switches on the playfield that score 10 including the sling shots and the standup switches behind a few rubbers. When one of these switches closes, the 10 point relay is activated which in turns activates the coil on the score reel and the match unit. If one of these switches becomes permanently closed, the 10 point relay, reel and match unit coils lock on. The larger coils, like the one on the match unit or on a chime unit will heat up quickly and are most likely to get damaged.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

Why is it that a fried coil ends up making the 10 point relay stick closed? Just trying to learn.

Excellent question. I'd like to understand that too because I don't see a straightforward answer on the schematic. The 10pt relay does fire (and can fry) the match unit advance coil. But the 10pt relay doesn't wait around for a signal from the match unit like it does for the 10pt score reel EOS switch so the match unit shouldn't be able to keep the 10pt relay on. Something else must be going on.

I wonder if the damaged match unit coil has an internal short. When it overheated it's possible that the insulation on some of the windings melted and allowed neighboring windings to short together. That would lower the resistance of the coil and make it draw more current from the transformer. Then when a 10 point switch closed, the 10 pt relay fired and called for both the 10 pt score reel and match unit coil to fire. With all three firing and the match unit coil drawing more than it should it's possible that the transformer couldn't supply enough power (through the backbox jones plug) to get the score reel to pull in enough to open the EOS switch.

When the 10pt relay locked on, did the 10 pt score reel advance? I wonder if the 10pt relay would have locked on if you had blocked the the 10pt EOS switch or the holder switch on the 10pt relay.

1 week later
#19 5 years ago

Ive recently aquired dipsy doodle for free.it was in dire straights. I will take some pictures when i get a chance. Sounds like some wires are crossed somewhere

#20 5 years ago

Here is the chime knocker area

15346365492061507823414 (resized).jpg15346365492061507823414 (resized).jpg
#21 5 years ago
15346366130201099856239 (resized).jpg15346366130201099856239 (resized).jpg
#22 5 years ago

Of course the misses thought the bell was too loud so i quieted it with some felt pads

#23 5 years ago

Hi Freezebox , welcome to pinside.

Better to start a new thread and tell us there what's wrong with your machine.

#24 5 years ago

10pt relay area

15346376843611232486958 (resized).jpg15346376843611232486958 (resized).jpg
#25 5 years ago

Nothing wrong with my machine. Ive already gone over her and shes running fairly well. I may be new to this site but im not new to em machines been through a 3 month mechanical resto of a Royal Hawaiian shuffle alley. She put me through EM school. Lol just figured i throw some pics of those areas that ryanwanger was dealing with

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Doodle Bug is such a cool EM. I have only just played one recently. The rules for this title are really neat. The artwork is very cool as well. They didn't make but 600 of these so you really do not see them much. Hopefully yours is a nice one.

166, I'm curious as to where you found an estimate for the production number of this machine?
Doddle Bug seemed to be quite common in the Mid Atlantic area; I used to own one and would often see them at different arcades in PA. I would have "guessed" that the production number was at least over 2000.
Didn't realize they only made 600?

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
St. Louis, MO

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/doodle-bug-won-t-start and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.