New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 170326)

Doodle Bug Startup Issues


By jedi42

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 10 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 61 days ago by enpointe
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_7466 (resized).jpg
2 relays doodle bug (resized).jpg
0Dipsy-Doodle-Work-1 (resized).jpg
doodle bug 10 pt relay (resized).jpg

#1 4 years ago

Hi All,

Just purchased a Doodle Bug game and new to EMs, and have played a few sample games before my current issue. When I start the game, it will reset properly and will stat a game no problem. However something is stuck somewhere, and i have been unable to track it down:
- the 10 point relay is energized and won't stop
- the 10 point scoring wheel starts buzzing and vibrating
- and the chime on the match mechanism keeps chiming

I have read several other posts on similar topics and have done the following:
- I don't see any playfield switches that are stuck
- I engaged the tilt switch and also unhooked the playfield wires (not sure what the name of the junction type box is) and neither of these stopped the energized switches
- during a reset (new game), while the scoring wheels are being reset, the switches in question are not energized

I don't have a schematic for the game, so not entirely sure what is energizing the switches, or in what order.

Any help would be appreciated!

#2 4 years ago

There are a lot of 10-pt scoring switches in that game, including the slingshots, behind the side and top rubbers, and the outside jet bumpers when they are not lit. I don't recall, but do the downpost buttons on the PF score 10 pts also?

Are you sure you checked ALL the switches? Even if the contact faces are not touching, the tab ends where the wires are located, or any blade stiffeners, can also be touching and can cause your machine's symptoms.

There is also usually an end-of-stroke switch on the score reel that should open up to interupt power to the score reel and keep it from locking on. Check the score reel too.

Finally, have a look to make sure no debris is shorting pins on the Jones plugs to the backbox. It might be beneficial to disconnect and reconnect the plugs.

Lee

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

unhooked the playfield wires

You mean, you fully disconnected the playfield from the game?

#4 4 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

You mean, you fully disconnected the playfield from the game?

Runbikeskilee mentioned the part, I unhooked the Jones plug (which I think disconnects the playfield wires), but I could be totally wrong on that.

#5 4 years ago

Hi
I can explain the phenomena (playfield disconnected and then the symptoms in post-1) --- IF I POSTULATE TWO faults in the pin.

Runbikeskilee mentioned "fault-1" - the "NOT opening End-Of-Stroke-Switch on the 10-Point-Score-Drum. The Coil gets current, pulls - the plunger travels - (almost) at end of travel the plunger opens this E.O.S.-Switch and the "Self-Hold-Circuitry of the 10-Point-RELAY is cut. AND when the travelling plunger does NOT open the Switch: 10-Point-RELAY will pull forever ...

And I postulate a second fault (fault-2) : The "Normally-Open-Self-Hold-Switch on the 10-Point-RELAY" is faulty -¬-- it should be OPEN WHEN the relay is NOT PULLING. If a drop of solder has fallen where the wires are soldered-on: Faulty-always connection. IF the short side of a blade (with wire soldered-on) is BENT and (there) contact is always made: Faulty-always connection. IF a blade is bent (long side) and the two contact-points (blades) have contact when the relay is NOT pulling: Faulty-always connection.

jedi42, for fault-2: Look at the 10-Point-RELAY - there is a short wire running from one side of the coil - running to a switch (bottom-most switch on the relay) --- inspect THIS Switch -is it TRUELY open when the relay is not pulling ?

IF (if) there IS a fault (the fault-2) - and You fix the fault-2 THEN You will have the nonpleasing effect of "jedi42 can start a game - relay and score drum stay peaceful, calm --- as soon as jedi42 makes the first time '10 points' --- the non-pleasing phenomena".
So for "fault-1" You may look at Cabaret: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=415 , the manual-page-15 (ori-13) - see the long blades standing upright - named "End Of Stroke Switch" - question: DOES this switch TRUELY opens when the plunger comes to "End-of-Travel". Greetings Rolf

P.S.: The fault(s) may be other place --- I just say: With these fault-1 and fault-2 in a pin: I can explain the phenomena.

#6 4 years ago

So, I started to follow rolf_martin's ideas:
- possible fault 1 - I checked the 10 pt score reel, and the EOS switch seems to be working. Closed normally, open at the end of the stroke (confirmed with voltage meter). No faults or crossed wires/blades.

- possible fault 2 - see photo, non-energized the circuits are open. Confirmed with voltage meter that the bottom switch, that it is open normally and closed when energized. No faults or crossed wires/blades.

Other thoughts?

doodle bug 10 pt relay (resized).jpg

#7 4 years ago

Hi jedi42
I refer to https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/doodle-bug-not-doodling#post-3001036 - towards the bottom of the first snippet of schematics- Part of activating the 10-point-relay is shown: When the Advance-Unit is in some position and the "Pulse-Relay-Switch" is closed --- THEN the coil on the 10-point-relay gets current. In a running pin the "Pulse-Relay" will be activated - relay pulls and shortly afterwards the Pulse-Relay will let go.

(Attention - completely read the post) IF (if) in Your pin the "Pulse-Relay" is FAULTY-pulling all the time: "Switch on Pulse-Relay is closed". IF (if) a drop of solder ...: FAULT. IF (if) a blade is bent making faulty contact (when relay is not pulling): FAULT, 10-point-relay pulls.

Please ONLY look at the Pulse-Relay when the fault starts to happen - question: Does the "Pulse-Relay" (faulty) constantly pull ?

Toggle-off the pin, UNPLUG the 110 VAC Power Cord and inspect the "Switches on Pulse-Relay" for "drop of solder and bent blade" - so there is faulty-always contact (?).

DANGER: TWO Switches on the Pulse-Relay handle 110 VAC Line Current - do not fumble at the switches when plugged-in / toggled-on. You can see https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/doodle-bug-not-doodling#post-3001036 - second JPG of schematics, 110 VAC-section near the transformer. If the pin would be a Dipsy doodle - here http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/683/Williams_1970_Dipsy_Doodle_Instruction_Manual.pdf on page-22 (ori-20), Pulse-Relay, Switch-A is the Switch in question.

Do You have a schematics of Doodle Bug ? I only can look at ipdb- Dipsy Doodle - I see switches on the Playfield (worth 10 points) named "Stand-Up Switches" and "(Slingshot) Kicker Switches", greetings Rolf

#8 4 years ago

Hi jedi42
if the pin would be an "Dipsy Doodle" - look at the JPG I made from ipdb-schematics:

Runbikeskilee, post-2 mentioned the Playfield-stuff AND the DEBRIS in Jones-Plugs, here in the JPG the "encircled red" stuff. The bundle of wires that connect the playfield to Cabinet / Backbox end in Jones-Plugs - pull them out and inspect the Sockets of the plugs - faulty-connection on the sockets ?

In post-5 I mentioned the "encircled orange" stuff - faulty-closed-switch on 10-point-relay and faulty-not-opening EOS-Switch on the Score-Drum.

In post-7 I mentioned the "encircled blue" stuff - faulty-closed-switch on Pulse-Relay in combination with "Advance-Unit".

In this (new) post I show "encircled green" (same theory as with Pulse-Relay) a maybe faulty-always-closed-Switch on the Bumper-Relays in combination with "Yellow / Green" Relay.

Without an Doodle-Bug schematics I cannot think of more "possibly faulty" places. Greetings Rolf

P.S.: The Slingshot-KICKER has the "Switch to close to activate the 10-point-relay" - also the switch can be "faulty-always-closed" - BUT to produce the fault: Jones-Plugs must be plugged-in.

0Dipsy-Doodle-Work-1 (resized).jpg

#9 4 years ago

Maybe this will help:
- Jones plug disconnected, so playfield should not be in play (checked for issues with Jones as well, seems fine)
- Pulse relay does not pull
- I don't think the lock relay is the problem, as it seems to be energized from the two relays shown on the picture. These 2 relays are energized and pulling when I turn it on (even during the scoring reset process). If I place paper in these when powered, the lock relay stops pulling (so can I deduce that these are sending power to the lock relay?)
- I don't know what these relays are, as they are the only 2 on the entire machine that are not labelled. They are located above the score reel in the cabinet.
- I too am using the manual and schematic from Dipsy Doodle

2 relays doodle bug (resized).jpg

3 years later
#10 61 days ago

Although this post is old I thought I'd add the information about those relay switches as I had that question myself and found this post. The labels are on the side so they are a bit hard to read but they are for the 10 and 25 cent relay switches

IMG_7466 (resized).jpg
Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 169.95
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Pinball Pro
$ 7.00
$ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 9.50
$ 6.00
Electronics
APB Enterprises
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 86.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 499.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
$ 7,999.00
Pinball Machine
Nitro Pinball Shop
€ 8.10
Flipper Parts
Buthamburg
$ 76.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
From: $ 22.95
Playfield - Protection
ULEKstore
$ 90.00
Lighting - Under Cabinet
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 76.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 129.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 221.00
Cabinet Parts
Tilted Pinball
$ 14.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
$ 15.00
Electronics
PIN-UPS
$ 28.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 30.00
Playfield - Plastics
Ramp-O-Matic
$ 369.00
Cabinet - Decals
Mircoplayfields
$ 89.00
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 65.00
Playfield - Other
Pin Monk
$ 369.00
Cabinet - Decals
Mircoplayfields
From: $ 75.00
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Mod Co.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside