New York, NY
Have you called the grifter family yet? Are their intentions to get you to come by and fix the game, just take the game home, or are they just planning on stealing it?
(Topic ID: 274839)
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Quoted from guitarded:That machine is now Stolen and I would report it as such.
“So they broke in and stole the machine?”
- well not exactly they paid with PayPal and then they reversed the charges
“So you sold it to them?”
-yes, but THEN they stole it
“Sorry here’s a bunch of bullshit reasons you can’t report it stolen”
Situation sucks. Rob’s best shot at this point is That these people just want him to come take it home and they’ll allow him to do that. Once he (hopefully) gets his game back, he should tell the rest of us in the area who these people
Are so we know not to deal with them.
Quoted from guitarded:IF he can document ownership and show that they did not pay, it is a stolen machine.
He just has to note that he believes their intention was to never pay. At the very least, they will be cited and the machine will have to be removed from their residence until trial.
How can he document ownership?
It’s not in his possession any more. I guess he needs a receipt from the person he bought it from with a serial number?
How would anybody here document ownership of a used pinball machine? An insurance statement?
Quoted from DaveH:They stole the machine. Stealing does not require breaking in. They took merchandise that has not been paid for. I’d involve the police immediately. I’d then call them and give them exactly one chance to resolve it. In the lawsuit later I’d name MasterCard and PayPal as defendants as well. Then I’d have it turned into a conspiracy charge between the 3 defendants. Finally if gather an armed militia to recover my precious. All because... TZ.
Look I agree with you. It’s a scum move. These people have stolen his game. Hopefully
They will give it back, rob is gonna have to exercise some restraint and diplomacy I’m sure.
But while I like seeing the legal experts of pinside let us know what an iron-clad case of theft this is, I have my suspicions in reality it might not be as easy as you guys think to get the cops to go knock on this family’s door. We don’t even know if rob knows their address.
Morally and ethically, of course the game is stolen. Legally? Remains to be seen.
And there’s something to that “possession is 9/10ths of the law” thing.
Quoted from guitarded:You know these things have serial numbers, right?
Receipt from purchase.
Do you get a receipt of purchase with a serial number every time you buy a used pinball machine?
Quoted from guitarded:The Cops have to come and take his complaint and they have to file it. They can try and dissuade him, but if he insists they have no choice but to do it.
He has their address, he already stated such. As long as he has the Serial Number and can prove that he owned it, he is in good shape.
Not trying to argue w/ you on this one Levi. His mistake was not getting paid in cash if they wanted to leave with the machine that day.
I’m not looking to argue either. I just don’t understand how this is supposed to work.
Rob goes to the cops with his case, and his serial number.
What happens then, assuming he can convince them that this game is stolen? They dispatch a unit to the family’s home? What if the family lies and says they don’t have any pinball machines in the house? Do the cops have a warrant? The family has a “receipt” too proving they “bought” the game. How far down the rabbit hole do these cops go on this? Is this really something they feel is worth their time; a relatively small civil matter?
I just don’t think it’s as simple as you guys lay out. Rob’s best move is to play as nice as possible and just see if these assholes will let him have his game back. They’ve already a proven they are gigantic pricks; they may have lawyers. They may decide to make fucking with Rob their new pandemic pastime. not sure a call or even visit from the cops is gonna be enough to have them just hand it over if they’ve already refused to do that.
This family of assholes almost surely thinks they are “in the right,” and they are thinking of rob not as a small time side gig retailer, they think he’s wal Mart or Costco. They certainly don’t think they are thieves. Haven’t you been watching the Karen videos? These suburban warriors never think they are wrong and will often go to great lengths to “prove” that.
Quoted from guitarded:He files the report with the Police, the Police will contact the family in posession of the machine.
How it shakes out from there (specifically) doesn't matter as much, but in order to take them to court with any hope of winning you are going to need the Police Report for the Stolen Machine and that Police Report documents the Family's response to the charge of theft.
As an example, I had this problem with a shotgun sale. Essentially the same scenario without the involvement of Paypal. It was a clusterfuck until I got the Police involved. Once I had filed a report and the cops made contact, it all worked out rather smoothly and quickly.
Not saying that is always the case, but right now they are dealing with dude they ripped off. When they are dealing with Cops, Courts and potential Jail Time / Fines, the attitude will change drastically. IF these people are actual scammers/criinals, perhaps not so much. But you need to document the theft and this is how you do it, you file a Stolen Property Report.
Hopefully rob is on his way to grab the game right now and doesn’t end up having to deal with any of this nonsense.
Quoted from gambit3113:Regardless of opinion, I guarantee you that the police will on inform him that this is a civil matter and will not get involved.
Yes this is my belief as well.
Quoted from pookycade:Unless I’m missing something, this was a chargeback via MasterCard thru and thru. Use F+F or not, a chargeback is possible. That’s always been the case for a credit card transaction. My guess is that PayPal would stick it to you regardless here, including digging the money out of your linked bank account if need be. In their mind they are just the middleman here and his beef should be with MasterCard not them. Chargebacks have been an issue as a retailer since the dawn of credit cards
Right. They clearly paid with a credit card through PayPal. They paid the 3% fee that rob was weaseling out of (its only free for both parties if paid via bank account). For their money they got the ability to charge it back through the CC.
The whole thing sucks. These people are way out of line.
But yeah it should be a wake up call for the friends and family set.
Quoted from baller88:Levi nailed it for the most part
They weren’t trying to scam Just pissed off and expected a retail level of service that is sometimes not possible with old pinball machines I told them what I needed to clear and they added the calculations and paid the fees PayPal got paid by the buyer I saw the correct amount clear and I never really thought about dissecting it. I’m optimistic still and I truly believe this wasn’t malicious, Btw for the negative people ok this forum - I’m posting this so others are aware in this community on what could happen Posting on a public forum isn’t my thing . Everyone ever ripped off should always share with the community Pride needs to be set aside to protect others from getting scammed PayPal Nigerians and all the fake websites tell # s etc
Any luck on getting the machine back or making these people happy enough to pay you?
Escrow.com is a lovely idea but I doubt more than a tiny percentage of people in this hobby would
Go for it. I would have zero interest in any deal involving escrow.
Quoted from ectobar:Why? I sold a pricey game to a pinsider I didn't know using it and it wasn't much of a hassle at all.
That’s nice.
Not interested. I’m sure a majority of pinsiders would feel the same way.
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