(Topic ID: 136638)

Donations to Pinside and the "grey heart"?


By iceman44

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 255 posts
  • 95 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by centerflank
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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    There are 255 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 6.
    #1 4 years ago

    I don't get it, many LONG TIME pinheads don't contribute anymore. What's the deal?

    Not happy with the status of things?

    Is this a for profit or non profit break even site?

    Just trying to understand the decision process.

    40
    #2 4 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I don't get it, many LONG TIME pinheads don't contribute anymore. What's the deal?

    Overmoderation. Back up off my shit.

    15
    #3 4 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    Overmoderation. Back up off my shit.

    Yes this exactly. I planned on donating again this year but not with this new family friendly pinside crap.

    11
    #4 4 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    Overmoderation. Back up off my shit.

    Same here.

    #5 4 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I don't get it, many LONG TIME pinheads don't contribute anymore. What's the deal?

    Thanks for the reminder. Done.

    16
    #6 4 years ago

    Robin's going to come to the slow realization that you simply can't have a forum--about pinball, no less--and expect it not to go off topic frequently or go into territory that isn't family friendly. I get that it's his forum. But when you put something out on the internet and take donations for it, it's not REALLY yours anymore. I've tried to respect his wishes, but I admit that I do so begrudgingly. And there are some moderators that have really turned into a poop on a shitstick on here with the overmoderation. There's moderation, and then there's feeling like I live in China.

    I still love Pinside. And I'll still donate, even though I'm about to be proven right in what I said by being kicked off this thread for "speaking against the moderators." I just really wish it was the Pinside of 2014. Much more fun. And now I can actually envision a day when I don't post here anymore.

    #7 4 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    Overmoderation. Back up off my shit.

    Feeling it Flanker......

    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    And there are some moderators that have really turned into a poop on a shitstick on here with the overmoderation. There's moderation, and then there's feeling like I live in China.

    Feeling that too boob......

    This ain't China where I'm at.

    #8 4 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    Overmoderation. Back up off my shit.

    You better watch out....everyone will tell you to go back to the RGP.

    #9 4 years ago
    Quoted from BoJo:

    You better watch out....everyone will tell you to go back to the RGP.

    It won't happen. I'll just go back to reading more books.

    #10 4 years ago

    I'm just wondering how much $$ is needed to bring this site to breakeven?

    I'm all in for that.

    #11 4 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I'm just wondering how much $$ is needed to bring this site to breakeven?
    I'm all in for that.

    Thread eject warning ; stop asking so many questions.

    11
    #12 4 years ago

    Thread ejects have been abounding recently...

    21
    #13 4 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    Thread ejects have been abounding recently...

    Big time, and really only when people feel like it. There seems to be no rhyme or reason for it. Some people get booted for off topic, and some people don't.

    It's kind of sucking the enjoyment out of Pinside for me, unfortunately.

    #14 4 years ago

    Sometimes I wish there were an undonate button...

    #15 4 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    Sometimes I wish there was an undonate button...

    I wouldn't take it that far, but I am frustrated by what's going on.

    I'm not able to donate much money every year, so I doubt Robin would even miss my donation, and I'm certainly not looking for any special treatment because of my donation status. I've enjoyed Pinside immensely up until recently, so I'm not sad I gave him money.

    #16 4 years ago

    Even the Tin Man says that even a grey heart is better than no heart at all.

    #17 4 years ago

    Ok, I wish there were a way to eject the mods for a while... how about that?

    #18 4 years ago

    I have recently cancelled my monthly donation for the same reasons mentioned above.

    14
    #19 4 years ago

    I have no problem with the family friendly idea. Robin’s goal is a place for all, kids included. Honestly, I don’t think he’s going to care too much about the <1% that continue to go against that and complain.

    This is a pinball site, and it should be able to exist with the more than acceptable conditions he asks. Robin has done very well here for all of us, but that of course is going to come with some decisions that do not fare well with all.

    I mean really, it’s pretty easy to enjoy this site without the common issues, unless all you are here to do is cause issues and argue, camping on one side of the next lame and meaningless argue thread.

    #20 4 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    Ok, I wish there were a way to eject the mods for a while... how about that?

    As much as I love revenge, I think a great first step would be aligning/training the mods to all be doing the same thing. It feels like different mods handle things differently, and maybe they aren't around as much as they need to be.

    There are a lot of mods right now whose participation in Pinside has dropped significantly. No fault of their own, they are volunteers. Unfortunately, for consistency, Robin needs to replace them with moderators that are willing to spend the appropriate amount of time and effort to keep the site fair and moving forward.

    15
    #21 4 years ago

    it the inconsistency from the mods that upset me.

    #22 4 years ago

    1e9e66c9037f0605dbabcbd670dd3c09.400x547x1.jpg

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    #23 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Big time, and really only when people feel like it. There seems to be no rhyme or reason for it. Some people get booted for off topic, and some people don't.

    I want to be open about this: It's not easy to manage this aspect of Pinside. I'm sorry if anyone feels unhappy about their experience here. It's a tough balancing act. Some Pinsiders want more relaxed moderation, some expect stricter moderation. The answer has to be somewhere in the middle, but until we find that sweet spot, you will see Pinside sometimes being too aggressive in moderation and sometimes too mild.

    I think it's also important to note that a thread eject is not necessarily a super bad thing (especially the temporary ones). They're a way for the moderation team to remind you of our rules. We're not here to make your lifes miserable. If you disagree or want to discuss, open a Moderation Feedback thread and tell us. We won't bite!

    The #1 goal is to make Pinside the best place on the web to talk pinball. This site is not just for you and your buddies. We want to be as welcoming to as many (new) people in the hobby as possible: wether you're here for fun or because your looking for "serious" pinball talk and wether or not you're a seasoned collector or a total noob. We're doing our best to keep everything relaxed but sometimes a bit of moderation is needed.

    You can help! Don't be a jerk, be considerate of others, think a minute before you post something abrasive or something that might be considered hateful. Follow moderator instructions when we try to bring or keep a thread on track. A lot is allowed here. Wanna talk about fishing, smartphones or cars? Go ahead! But please do it in your own Off Topic Bar thread and not in a thread where we're trying to discuss another topic.

    There's constant discussion and sparring of ideas going on behind the scenes on how to improve this aspect of the site. Pinside has been growing fast and managing all these thousands of different opinions and expectations is not the easiest challenge I've ever faced. Being consistent is really hard with so many posts per day and between different mods from different time zones it gets even harder. Trust us, we try to be!

    As for donations. I'm beginning to think that the concept of a voluntary contribution may have reached the end of its lifespan and I should probably switch over to a more mature model to fund the site operations. But until I've come up with a fair way to do so (and I can assure you that I have every intention to keep Pinside in it's current form free for all), the donations are pretty much what keeps this site running so thanks to all who help out with that.

    Got an idea? Something to tell me (PM) or the team (MF thread). Let us know!

    #24 4 years ago

    Robin, I just noticed you also donate... so does it go from the left pocket to the right pocket or vice versa?

    #25 4 years ago

    Thanks for responding Robin.

    For me, it's not that I disagree with the family friendly concept or that I disagree with the off-topic posting rules. I just want them to be enforced fairly across the site.

    I could take 5 minutes and show you two dozen threads that have gone off-topic with no thread ejects. I'm not butt hurt that I personally got ejected from a thread, I broke the rules. I'm frustrated that I feel singled out along with some others, purely because the mods only have time to moderate the threads they personally want to read, and some mods let off-topic slide while some don't.

    Quoted from robin:

    If you disagree or want to discuss, open a Moderation Feedback thread and tell us. We won't bite!

    I did, 24 hours ago. Still no responses. (See edit, robin has responded to me)

    EDIT: Robin did just respond to my personal Moderation Forum post.

    #26 4 years ago

    I can't understand why a donation can only go to the site if it allows whatever behavior people want. I guess if that is the case, some people won't donate but it's also less than generous or even courteous to assume that 'most' anything should be okay. It's not 'political correctness' to be courteous but it is considerate. I would rather visit a friendlier site than one with people spitting vile when they disagree. I have only seen a couple thread eject warnings that looked questionable. I just try to be thoughtful and active when posting, not reactive.

    What I don't understand are the people that regularly advertise goods or services and use Pinside to grow business but don't donate.

    #27 4 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    Robin, I just noticed you also donate... so does it go from the left pocket to the right pocket or vice versa?

    Hehe, this is actually due to me testing out the donations system and some bug with Paypal that keeps refreshing it.

    #28 4 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    Hehe, this is actually due to me testing out the donations system and some bug with Paypal that keeps refreshing it.

    Glad you can laugh at my post. That's another problem here. Some take posts way to seriously! Glad you understood that I was just poking a little fun unlike Wolf... Although I do prefer thumbs down so Thanks Wolf!

    #29 4 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    Glad you can laugh at my post. That's another problem here. Some take posts way to seriously! Glad you understood that I was just poking a little fun unlike Wolf... Although I do prefer thumbs down so Thanks Wolf!

    I know you were being sarcastic, but I didn't think it was appropriate right then.

    #30 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I know you were being sarcastic, but I didn't think it was appropriate right then.

    Ok... Apology accepted.

    #31 4 years ago

    I make a monthly donation. I will continue to make one as long as I continue to use Pinside . While there is plenty to bitch about at times, it has been and continues to be a great resource to me. Pinside has its share of trolls and instigators, but it is also filled with Great people that constantly go out of their way to help individuals with problems and move this hobby forward. With guys like Lloyd, Vid, and the countless others who constantly chime in on their own time just to help, Pinside has saved me tremendously more than my small donation costs. If you use Pinside for entertainment and support as I do, I think it makes sense to donate (if you can afford to) and keep this service for the benefit of our hobby.

    #32 4 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    Robin, I just noticed you also donate... so does it go from the left pocket to the right pocket or vice versa?

    This was hilarious (cmon guys this is a joke)

    In all seriousness though, Robin is the largest donor and likely you opens his wallet often.

    #33 4 years ago

    I donate about once a year. I expect exactly zero people to agree with me, but here goes.

    Ignoring the moderation and your like or dislike if it, Robin still has to pay for the site.
    How much time do you spend on Pinside? Is it weekly, daily, several times a day, several hours a day? I personally spend a lot of time on Pinside. I really enjoy it. For several years, it has been my primary website for fun and entertainment.

    Looking at the post counts of many members, they seem to follow a similar usage. Rationalize all you want. If you use it nearly as much as I and don't donate, you're a cheapskate.

    13
    #34 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I could take 5 minutes and show you two dozen threads that have gone off-topic with no thread ejects.

    The mods are great on this site...with some exceptions. I got punted from the Hobbit update thread for saying I enjoyed Full Throttle. REALLY? The guy before me posted a pic of a carpet from Kohl's. No thread eject.

    I'm over it. I PM'ed with Robin and we hashed things out. Quite frankly, I don't even want to PM the mod that did it to me because I'm afraid it'll just get ugly, and he's a nice guy so I don't want that to happen. I'm over it now.

    I'm still butthurt about my awesome joke about "little people" that got me kicked off a thread. Only takes one person with no sense of humor to piss on everybody else's parade.

    The reality: Threads go off-topic sometimes. Deal with it. That is, in fact, one of the things that makes Pinside so entertaining. The Hobbit thread was talking about cars for a while, for God's sake, but found its way back to Hobbit talk. It always works itself out, and it should be allowed without pissy whiners complaining about it.

    -3
    #35 4 years ago

    What if donators had access to a private "nsfw" forum that non donators would not see. Or donators could turn on/off "nsfw" content.

    I don't like the idea of a two tier system but there should a way to appease everyone. I really like pinside, even the way off topic banter.

    Could you link topics to the threads like games are linked to threads. So if something goes off topic somewhere buried in a thread it could be easily found. Eg, a thread on new stern games has useful (off topic) information about some rumor that's came out but its un-related to stern games. Could you hyperlink to that information within the other thread?

    Just my $.02 Keep up the good work

    11
    #36 4 years ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    What if donators had access to a private "nsfw" forum that non donators would not see. Or donators could turn on/off "nsfw" content.

    Is it seriously that big of an issue that people must have to find a way to post nude photos, swear, have raging arguments with others, or whatever else that this is a necessity - on a pinball website?

    #37 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I could take 5 minutes and show you two dozen threads that have gone off-topic with no thread ejects. I'm not butt hurt that I personally got ejected from a thread, I broke the rules. I'm frustrated that I feel singled out along with some others, purely because the mods only have time to moderate the threads they personally want to read, and some mods let off-topic slide while some don't.

    Yep, I realise there are consistency issues in moderation. Not denying that. It's something we're trying to fix, but there's no easy solution to it. We (the mod team) have many tools in place to keep each other updated about moderations. And we have an open communication channel that allows us to discuss issues the second we spot them. Most moderations you see are not the work of a single mod, we always try to get consent with at least one other mod (or hopefully two).

    ..All these tools, but still it's hard to moderate everyone equally.

    Regardless, while I get that inconsistent moderation can be frustrating, it doen't diminish the behaviour being moderated. Let me try and illustrate this with a (probably lousy) example Let's say you're speeding on the highway and a cop stops you. Will you tell him about all the other people who were also speeding on that same stretch of road? Why are they not stopped? Would the cop care? No, he'll give you a fine for your speeding violation and move on. Not everyone speeding will be stopped by that cop.

    So sometimes you may feel singled out when a lot of others are also breaking the same rules or ignoring the same requests who are not moderated for it. That's not because we like that approach but simply because we cannot monitor every thread all the time.

    It's my understanding that in the Hobbit thread several requests were made to please stay on topic. When that is ignored the team tried to give a signal by ejecting some people for a short while. What else are we going to do if people won't react to our requests? I realise this rubbed some people the wrong way, which is why I'm saying "hey, it's only a temp eject guys". But I'm not sure what better solution there is besides someone monitoring each new post all day long?

    Anyways, there are already some great ideas how we can battle O/T posting without disallowing O/T posting. Sounds contradictory? It kind of is, but it's a fun idea which we're currently discussing!

    Open for more suggestions!

    #38 4 years ago
    Quoted from Atomicboy:

    Is it seriously that big of an issue that people must have to find a way to post nude photos, swear, have raging arguments with others, or whatever else that this is a necessity - on a pinball website?

    I prefer uncensored with ability to ignore over heavily moderated.

    #39 4 years ago

    Because Pinside has become mainly, and many posts like this. WTF does even 1/2 the posts on pinside have to do with pinball anymore?
    They start out that way but QUICKLY go off topic.

    Jerry Springer would be proud!

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-bad-part-of-this-pinball-hobby

    #40 4 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    Anyways, there are already some great ideas how we can battle O/T posting without disallowing O/T posting. Sounds contradictory? It kind of is, but it's a fun idea which we're currently discussing!

    Just let them flow, unless they break other rules. Seriously, "off topic" is too grey of an area. Sometimes going off topic leads to great discussions.

    I don't see why the starter of the thread "owns" the thread, and has the ability to dictate what we talk about, or when the discussion is over.

    #41 4 years ago
    Quoted from Atomicboy:

    I have no problem with the family friendly idea. Robin’s goal is a place for all, kids included.

    Show me one "Kid" that can't handle some mature content that is working on and or buying/selling/trading pinball machines which I thought was the point of these forums. (For real not some mock up of a 3 year old with a screwdriver)

    13
    #42 4 years ago

    I like the new "family friendly" Pinside, as some are calling it. Yes "threads do go off topic once in a while", but to me it felt like *every* thread was going off topic. And usually in a way that made it feel like a club I wasn't part of (even though I'm here a *lot*).

    Quoted from iceman44:

    how much $$ is needed to bring this site to breakeven?

    Robin does this full time, right? This is literally the slickest forum I've ever used, and he built it. And continually improves it. And deals with all the drama that goes on.

    It's really frustrating that we've reached a point with technology where people expect everything on the internet to be free. And even, then we complain like entitled a-holes when something isn't done the way we want it. Robin and Pinside don't owe anything to anyone.

    It's a privilege to be part of this community, not a right.

    13
    #43 4 years ago

    A forum is just a text version of a bunch of pinball guys standing around talking. One person starts the discussion. If you have a stopwatch, start it and see how long it takes before the conversation moves on to something else. When I talk pinball with guys, we move on to other things, but eventually come back around to pinball. That's Pinside, and it's the normal ebb and flow of any interesting conversation. These guys that want to be super-stringent about staying on topic must be the most boring people to hang out with. Ever.

    13
    #44 4 years ago

    I think there's a difference between letting the discussion evolve, and incessant bickering by people that keep repeating themselves endlessly. Usually the same people going back and forth on the same topic in different threads. That is what destroys any sort of discussion.

    #45 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    A forum is just a text version of a bunch of pinball guys standing around talking. One person starts the discussion. If you have a stopwatch, start it and see how long it takes before the conversation moves on to something else. When I talk pinball with guys, we move on to other things, but eventually come back around to pinball. That's Pinside, and it's the normal ebb and flow of any interesting conversation. These guys that want to be super-stringent about staying on topic must be the most boring people to hang out with. Ever.

    It was... now its more like all that, but with a guy with a pocket protector and a notepad interrupting each group saying.

    "You know guy's there's a woman/child over there, you shouldn't be talking about women" *scribble scribble*

    or

    "You guys are standing near the Hobbit and obviously started talking about that... why are you talking about Spiderman now?" *scribble sctibble*

    #46 4 years ago

    I'm at work now, so in effect I'm getting paid to read Pinside. It only seems fair to kick a little bit of that back Robin's way.

    #47 4 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    Ok, I wish there were a way to eject the mods for a while... how about that?

    It's called RGP.

    Bunch O whiners!

    #48 4 years ago
    Quoted from DarkWizard:

    It was... now its more like all that, but with a guy with a pocket protector and a notepad interrupting each group saying.
    "You know guy's there's a woman/child over there, you shouldn't be talking about women" *scribble scribble*
    or
    "You guys are standing near the Hobbit and obviously started talking about that... why are you talking about spiderman now?" *scribble sctibble*

    #49 4 years ago

    Just to be clear, I have no problem with the off-topic or family friendly rules. I actually endorse them, which may surprise you.

    #50 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Just to be clear, I have no problem with the off-topic or family friendly rules. I actually endorse them, which may surprise you.

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