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(Topic ID: 244750)

Ding Dong trip relay

By Jerky2pinball

4 years ago

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12 posts
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Latest reply 4 years ago by rolf_martin_062
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Ding Dong Williams, 1968

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#1 4 years ago

DON

Jerky2pinball

Pinballs Plus

Topeka, KS

10y 42,400 64 40 8

When I roll over the only switch that scores 200 and levels up to the only 500 nothing happens.
But if I manually trip it it works fine. I am wondering if my relay is working...
I am attaching pics of the switch and relay and schematics.
Looking for rolf_martin_062
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#2 4 years ago

???

currieddog

Pinside member

Springfield, MA

7y 63,550 3,312 6

OP
Quoted from Jerky2pinball:
When I roll over the only switch that scores 200 and levels up to the only 500 nothing happens.

Did you check the double switch under the RO?

#3 4 years ago

???

pinballdaveh

Pinside member

Unknown

10y 38,800 1,970

What I don’t understand is how a single rollover button can score 200 points without a 200 point relay and without any other rollover switches.

#4 4 years ago

rolf_martin_062

Inactive member

Aarau

9y 59,550 4,150 14 8

Hi
See the PDF - I have put the pieces together --- not so good but we can see the whole schematics. You may have to make You an copy (down to Your computer) - then look at Your copy. Greetings Rolf
0Ding-Dong-total.pdf

#5 4 years ago

rolf_martin_062

Inactive member

Aarau

9y 59,550 4,150 14 8

Hi Jerky2pinball
I do not understand Your description in post-1. I look at Your picture of the playfield (post-1) and read painted / written "rolling through the horseshoe is 'unlit worth 200', 'lit worth 500' points".
Question-1: Do You get "200 points" when unlit ? I believe in the horseshoe are mounted two standup-switches - each worth 100 points --- the ball rolls through - here 100 points and just after there 100 points.
I believe the Center Rollover-Button in the Horseshoe ONLY comes into action when "500" is lit. And to get "lit invitation - You can make 500 points" --- here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=682&picno=4457&zoom=1 in the lower right corner is the info.
Question-2: Can You make the invitation for 500 to light up ? And then
Question-3: Does the horseshoe gives 500 points ?

Question-4: Did the pin ever function - or did You buy it with the fault(s) ?
Question-5: Can You please write an more detailled description of the problem ? Greetings Rolf

#6 4 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

Kansas City, MO

10y 79,550 4,023 22

The center rollover switch always trips the 500 point relay. However it will not score 500 unless the RO relay in the trip bank is already tripped. Then it scores 200.

Check the center rollover switch to see if when closed it trips the 500 point relay. If the 500 point relay does not trip it will not score at all.

Open the game up and hit the rollover switch and see if the 500 trips. If not it's a switch problem or the trip coil on the 500 point relay is not energizing. It could be that it is tripping but the switch in the 500 point relay is not quite making

#7 4 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

Kansas City, MO

10y 79,550 4,023 22

Quoted from currieddog:
Did you check the double switch under the RO?

Nor a double switch. It's a single switch.

Quoted from pinballdaveh:
What I don’t understand is how a single rollover button can score 200 points without a 200 point relay and without any other rollover switches.

Timing between the 500 point relay and the score motor. Whe the rollover switch makes it trips the 500 point relay. When set for 200 points after 200 is scored a combination of a make/break on the RO relay and a motor 2A relatches the 500 point relay and stops scoring after 2 lobes on the cam have pulsed the switch.

When set for 500 points the RO relay changes state and now it is a combination of the make/break on the RO relay and a motor 5A. The motor 5A lets the 500 point relay stay tripped long enough for 5 pulses on the impulse cam to score 500 then it relatches the 500 point relay and scoring ends.

If the ball gets stuck on the rollover switch it will score 200 then 500 over and over.

Pure genius in design here.

#8 4 years ago

DON

Jerky2pinball

Pinballs Plus

Topeka, KS

10y 42,400 64 40 8

I apologize to all as I apparently haven't explained myself well enough...
I will try to answer all your questions.
My father purchased this 1968 game back in 1969... It is basically HUO!!! I might be partial, but it has a great play to it and I believe ahead of it's time. If you spell a word up and down it changes the 200 horseshoe to 500. (1) - It only has 1 roll over in the horseshoe.
If you spell a word across it lights the special lights.
(2) - I have lifted the playfield and made sure the switch is clean and have closed the switch to energize the system, but nothing happens It is like the wire has a break in it...? Everything else on the machine works flawlessly it just stopped scoring one day???

currieddog - yes the switch seems fine.

Pinballdaveh - I am not sure

rolf_martin_062 - When playing the horseshoe has 1 rollover and as it is touched you get 200 points until you spell a word down and it then lights the 500 points. Now when you touch the RO it scores 500 until which time you spell a word across and light a special, then as you lose your ball and as it is shot through the shooter lane it rolls over a wire and it resets the game so you have to start all over spelling words again. That is how it is supposed to work. Now when the horseshoe RO is touched nothing happens no score... it is like the wires to the switch are disconnected. I am thinking of jumpering the relay quickly just to make sure the relay is working. Then I am going to start a continuity check, to and from the switch????????
Thanks for everyone's Help, Don

#9 4 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

Kansas City, MO

10y 79,550 4,023 22

OP
Quoted from Jerky2pinball:
I apologize to all as I apparently haven't explained myself well enough...
I will try to answer all your questions.
My father purchased this 1968 game back in 1969... It is basically HUO!!! I might be partial, but it has a great play to it and I believe ahead of it's time. If you spell a word up and down it changes the 200 horseshoe to 500. (1) - It only has 1 roll over in the horseshoe.
If you spell a word across it lights the special lights.
(2) - I have lifted the playfield and made sure the switch is clean and have closed the switch to energize the system, but nothing happens It is like the wire has a break in it...? Everything else on the machine works flawlessly it just stopped scoring one day???
currieddog - yes the switch seems fine.
Pinballdaveh - I am not sure
rolf_martin_062 - When playing the horseshoe has 1 rollover and as it is touched you get 200 points until you spell a word down and it then lights the 500 points. Now when you touch the RO it scores 500 until which time you spell a word across and light a special, then as you lose your ball and as it is shot through the shooter lane it rolls over a wire and it resets the game so you have to start all over spelling words again. That is how it is supposed to work. Now when the horseshoe RO is touched nothing happens no score... it is like the wires to the switch are disconnected. I am thinking of jumpering the relay quickly just to make sure the relay is working. Then I am going to start a continuity check, to and from the switch????????
Thanks for everyone's Help, Don

Lift the playfield and close the switch. What does the 500 point relay do? It should trip.

If it doesn't then check the resistance of the trip coil on the 500 point relay.

Manually trip the 500 point relay. It should score 200 points. If it doesn't make sure the switches on the relay are clean and making good contact.

This is not a complex circuit.

#10 4 years ago

DON

Jerky2pinball

Pinballs Plus

Topeka, KS

10y 42,400 64 40 8

Quoted from EMsInKC:
Lift the playfield and close the switch. What does the 500 point relay do? It should trip.
If it doesn't then check the resistance of the trip coil on the 500 point relay.
Manually trip the 500 point relay. It should score 200 points. If it doesn't make sure the switches on the relay are clean and making good contact.
This is not a complex circuit.

I have already done this. The switch does nothing. Yes if I manually trip it it scores 200 and if lit scores 500. All the switch contacts that I see in this loop are making contact through a continuity check.

#11 4 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

Kansas City, MO

10y 79,550 4,023 22

OP
Quoted from Jerky2pinball:
I have already done this. The switch does nothing. Yes if I manually trip it it scores 200 and if lit scores 500. All the switch contacts that I see in this loop are making contact through a continuity check.

By trip it you mean the trip coil?

Did you check the resistance of the trip coil and check the power wires at the solder lugs?

There is only one switch that trips the trip coil. Jumper from it directly to the coil.

#12 4 years ago

rolf_martin_062

Inactive member

Aarau

9y 59,550 4,150 14 8

Hi Don
where are You at troubleshooting ? Did You try what @EmsInKC suggested in post-11 ?
I do have a meter (to check for continuity) - I very seldom use the meter --- changes are "we get false reading" because there is connection "all the way around - through windings on the transformer". See the JPG - can You make the Trip-Coil to fire ? Greetings Rolf

0Ding-Dong-Work-01 (resized).jpg

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