(Topic ID: 192738)

D'oh! DE Simpsons outhole kicker not kicking


By jibmums

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 8 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by ChrisHibler
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 3 years ago

Recently moved my DE Simpsons from one house to another. Game was previously working perfectly, and now after the move the ONLY thing not working is the outhole kicker. The outhole switch checks out fine in switch test, the kicker does NOT fire in solenoid test, and the rest of the game works just fine, I can even play a full game as long as I manually feed the balls into the trough. When I press the outhole switch during a game, I can hear a 'click' noise coming from a board in the backbox, which I presume is trying to fire the kicker. I reseated the connectors, and pulled the apron and there are no loose wires to the coil. I doubt it's a transistor problem as the board is like new and was working perfectly before the move. Any ideas on what else I should check?

Edit:
Continuity check on wiring is good from coil to connector/board.
Coil measures 4.3 Ω on DMM.
Each coil lug measures 37.5V on DMM with game powered on.

#2 3 years ago

Could the switch wire have gotten bumped out of position? Is the ball pushing the wire down far enough to actually close the contacts on the switch? Pressing with your finger and a ball sitting there can produce different results.

#3 3 years ago

Ball sits on the switch and triggers it just as it should. Not a switch problem at all.

#4 3 years ago

You've answered some important questions already...

1. The switch works.
2. The click you hear in the head is the A/C selcect relay switching over to the coil side to pulse the outhole coil.
3. You have power at both coil lugs. That means that you have power (duh) and that the coil does not have an open.

The only thing left to check is the path to ground provided by the wire back to the MPU connector, through the connector, and across the board to the transistor.

A. With a stripped length of wire, game on, in coil/flashed test, paused at the outhole coil test, attach one end of the stripped wire to the ground braid in the head. BRIEFLY, touch the tab of the outhole drive transistor. The tab is the metal heat sink on the top of the transistor.

Did the coil fire?
If not, then the wire back to the board or the connector has an open circuit.
If it did fire, then the transistor isn't switching to ground when enabled. Could be the transistor (and likely is if you've gotten to this point), the predrive transistor, or the upstream circuitry.

LMK what you find.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#5 3 years ago

Okay....so I set the coil test to "outhole", grounded transistor Q46 and got no response at all. Just to make sure I was doing this correctly, I set the coil test to "ball eject", grounded transistor Q45, and that one fired, so I know I did the first one right. What's the next step?

#6 3 years ago

FYI, stopping the coil test on the outhole for the test was to ensure that the A/C relay was flipped to the coil side. It's OK to do that for other coils but the coil will be firing as you do the test.

Next. Identify the header pin on the MPU board that drives the outhole kicker. Remove the connector. Clip your lead to that pin. Don't allow it to touch adjacent pins.

Clip the other end to the outhole coil lug that has the wire of the same color that went to the pin on the MPU. It's very important to clip to the correct lug.

Run coil test. 7 coils won't fire since they are on the same connector. Outhole should fire.

LMK.

Chris

#7 3 years ago

Figured it out, it was a connector issue after all. In tracing the black/brown wire from the outhole coil lug, found that it terminates at J2 on the PPB board. Then from J1-1 on the PPB, a gray/brown wire ends at CN11-1 on the MPU, the pin for the outhole kicker. The very first thing I did was reseat the connectors on the MPU, but not the PPB; I reseated those connectors and now all works well. Right initial idea, wrong board.

Let's say I had tested the coil according to your instructions and it fired, would that have indicated a wiring problem somewhere, even though I had initially checked it and found continuity? And let's say it didn't fire, what would that have indicated?

Much thanks for your help, Chris!

#8 3 years ago

It would have indicated a wiring issue or an issue with the POB board. It might also have caused the game to reset since the PPB board has the snubber diodes in that board set.

Glad you got it fixed.

--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

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