New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 225503)

does wire gauge need to match?


By topkat

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 15 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by topkat
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

One image has been uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

image (resized).jpg

#1 2 years ago

When I replaced a flipper coil, I tried to do the right thing and put the diode end away from the stop. The machine had been set the other way before. One of the wires was too short so I soldered another piece on to make the length. Its a thicker wire. The flipper is definitely weaker than its counterpart. Can this be the cause?
Going to rebuild entire thing, but would like to know if this is an issue.

#2 2 years ago

So, the assertion here is that the increased wire diameter is causing a change of resistance that it’s changing the current flow. You can prove that with a meter. Check the DC voltages at each of the wires on the good flippers and compare that to the suspect one and rule that out. On older games, start simple and rebuild, make sure the EOS switches are clean and gapped correctly, etc.

#3 2 years ago

I’m almost 100% certain that a heavier gauge wire wouldn’t increase resistance, but lower it. Your bottleneck is likely elsewhere.

Other factors are more important: when you rebuilt the flipper, did you use new EOS switches? Are they adjusted properly? Check the cabinet switches for cleanliness—they could need to be filed. How did you connect the wire extension? Is it a good solid solder connection? A poor solder joint anywhere (including the lugs of the coil) will create a poor connection.

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

When I replaced a flipper coil, I tried to do the right thing and put the diode end away from the stop. The machine had been set the other way before. One of the wires was too short so I soldered another piece on to make the length. Its a thicker wire. The flipper is definitely weaker than its counterpart. Can this be the cause?
Going to rebuild entire thing, but would like to know if this is an issue.

For reference I've done this exact same thing several times and it's never given me any issues. It's not ideal but sometimes its what you have on hand. I highly doubt that is what is causing this issue.

#5 2 years ago

Using a smaller gauge wire would definitely be bad. A bit bigger shouldn't be an issue.

#6 2 years ago

thanks I will re check all the above its not a pretty solder, but it did look solid. At least have a list of things to check

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Using a smaller gauge wire would definitely be bad. A bit bigger shouldn't be an issue.

You are backwards. The lower the gauge, the thicker the wire. I think you meant using a smaller diameter wire would be bad, a bit bigger shouldn't be an issue. Also, for what it's worth you cannot tell the gauge of the wire by just looking at it. Different wires have different thicknesses of the insulation. But yeah, in general, thicker wire would not be your culprit.

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Using a smaller gauge wire would definitely be bad. A bit bigger shouldn't be an issue.

I read this as small gauge meaning that he really meant smaller diameter wire. I'd like to believe that most of us know that 22awg is much finer (smaller) than 16awg

from:
https://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/definition/American-Wire-Gauge

"American Wire Gauge (AWG) is a U.S. standard set of non-ferrous wire conductor sizes. The "gauge" means the diameter. Non-ferrous includes copper and also aluminum and other materials, but is most frequently applied to copper household electrical wiring and telephone wiring. Typical household wiring is AWG number 12 or 14. Telephone wire is usually 22, 24, or 26. The higher the gauge number, the smaller the diameter and the thinner the wire. Since thicker wire carries more current because it has less electrical resistance over a given length, thicker wire is better for longer distances. For this reason, where extended distance is critical, a company installing a network might prefer telephone wire with the lower-gauge, thicker wire of AWG 24 to AWG 26."

that last sentence doesn't really make any sense considering that they mention above that telephone wire is 22, 24 or 26 awg. 22, being the thicker of the 3 gauges would work better for extended distance vs. 24 or 26awg

#9 2 years ago

The point of questioning the gauge of wire in this problem is moot because we are talking about such a short length of wire. Even if you incorrectly installed a higher or lower gauge wire, the wire resistance is negligible ... the wire size is not going to be a cause of the flipper feeling weak. Resistance of 10 ft. of 24AWG is about 2.5 ohms and resistance of 10 ft. of 18AWG is about .5 ohms. The main reason to go with an equivalent or larger diameter wire is primarily safety, as the circuits are fused for the current handling of the circuits and the fuse. Using the same wire size when replacing also tends to make splices and connectors easier to implement.

Measure resistance through your solder connections, not at them - to make sure your spliced connection points are electrically low in resistance. If the problem is not your splice then it is something else entirely (EOS, cab switch, mechanical issue etc...)

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

So, the assertion here is that the increased wire diameter is causing a change of resistance that it’s changing the current flow. You can prove that with a meter. Check the DC voltages at each of the wires on the good flippers and compare that to the suspect one and rule that out. On older games, start simple and rebuild, make sure the EOS switches are clean and gapped correctly, etc.

Checking the voltage isn't going to prove anything. With no current flow, there is no voltage drop across the resistance and therefore you would see the same voltage on both the 'good' and the 'bad' flippers...

#11 2 years ago

I went to file the cabinet switch and with the heat shrink tubing it looked like the connections were good. But alas when I pulled to see if secure one end of the capacitor was broken. It Not sure if this would be the issue but will fix this first

image (resized).jpg
#12 2 years ago

Do the replacement switches for the right flipper cabinet no longer have a capacitor?

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

Do the replacement switches for the right flipper cabinet no longer have a capacitor?

if the replacement switches do not have a capacitor, one should be added. A 1uf 500V disc capacitor is used across the flipper switch to reduce high voltage arcing and pitting. The cap will help lengthen the life of the switch.

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

I went to file the cabinet switch and with the heat shrink tubing it looked like the connections were good. But alas when I pulled to see if secure one end of the capacitor was broken. It Not sure if this would be the issue but will fix this first
[quoted image]

btw, you don't want to use a file on the switch contacts. purchase a contact burnisher which is made specifically for this task. it cleans the contacts without removing the platinum, gold, tungsten or silver plating
https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=995

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

btw, you don't want to use a file on the switch contacts. purchase a contact burnisher which is made specifically for this task. it cleans the contacts without removing the platinum, gold, tungsten or silver plating
https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=995

Thanks. I called it a file, but thats what it is..

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 12.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
$ 279.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
$ 7,599.00

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside