Roller games - lovely habitrails
Hardbody
wPt
NASCAR
Elvis - this has a great layout. It doesn't get a lot of love
Big hurt

Theme matters. Maybe a dozen games have overcome terrible themes. Alternatively, sopranos is Lotr re themed but no one talks about it being a top all time.

Yes and no.
No because I bought met, mustang and Indy 500

Yes I bought sm, im, st etc.

Duplicate

Mustang is a great game example of theme not mattering. Game is a total blast to play... and playing is what pins are meant for!

I willingly forfeited any right to critique the gameplay of Dialed In, just to make a point that theme matters. It's so terrible I actively chose NOT to even try to play it at TPF. I hammered the crap out of the AFMr right behind them to the tune of an 11 billion game instead, and played Houdini off to their right (Which I SHOCKINGLY liked a LOT!).

It's not even close to LOTR. I like the game, and I like it for what it is themewise, but comparing those two...yeah, it's not even remotely close. I think Sopranos is very underrated, likely BECAUSE of it's theme...or the buggy valid playfield exploit that all but eliminates it from competitive play.

Not in my opinion...... I own a hobbit.

Never read the books - and absolutely abhorred the movies. I continue playing the game - with no renewed desire to read or watch the source material.

Also have a sttng - having never watched a lick of the show or any of the movies (nor would i).

I would also consider tspp, rollergames, lotr, demolition man, shadow, and congo with zero regard to their origin.

Does a desirable theme rope in players? Sure. But that's all in the eye of the beholder. Most of the time I just wanna play some decent f'n pinball.

Ps - I'd buy a bible adventures pinball even though it pretty much flies in the face of many of my beliefs - were it engineered and coded by the right people.

It's all about the theme for me... I play BTTF all the time just to hear the music.

Theme matters for me to an extent. That's what catches my eye initially. But I have to enjoy the actual gameplay too. Avengers is a prime example of gameplay overriding theme. I've been a huge comic book for years before the MCU even started. I thought for sure it'd be my first pin, but after playing it, it was too underwhelming to spend money on it. Same with South Park.

Theme is extremely important. That's the reason there are so many rock themed pins. Not only do they have value as a pinball machine, they also have big value as rock memorabilia.

Take the Kiss machines for instance. Not only do a lot of pinball fans want them to add to their collection, there are also thousands of Kiss fans who normally wouldn't even consider buying a pinball machine who would love one too.

I remember back in 1981 when my favorite pin Bally Eight Ball Deluxe came out. I was instantly addicted to it and would sink some serious quarters into it every chance I could get. A friend of mine who was a Rolling Stones freak told me he wanted to buy a Bally Rolling Stones pin. I told him I wanted a brand-new Eight Ball Deluxe because the Stones pin wasn't nearly as good but he told me that he didn't care because he was more of a Rolling Stones fan than a pinball fan. He wanted it purely for the theme and he bought one for his basement.

I later gained a greater appreciation for the Rolling Stones pin over the years and now have one too but back then I would have considered it a major luxury to just own one pinball machine and there were others I wanted more. Now you couldn't get me to even consider selling my Stones machine for less than $5,000. It's that nice and it means that much to me as both a pinball machine and a piece of rock history. Plus I am a Stones freak too.

Games with crappy themes aren't worth nearly as much as equivalent players with good (or niche' themes).

And some great players (with lame themes) aren't worth as much as lesser players with great themes.

So yes, theme means a whole lot to most people. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either delusional or has a bunch of pins with lame themes they wish were worth more than they really are.

Of course it matters since the initial theme caused the person you were talking to to make a choice to no longer invest any more interest in the Thunderbirds machine as the theme did not appeal on a personal level.

All themes act to create an association which resonates (either positive or negative) with a person in order to hopefully convince that person to become a purchaser. It is the preliminary aspect which engages a person and aids in consumer choice in choosing one product over another.

Theme always matters at the initial preliminary level and since first impressions last it would take a great deal of marketing effort to assuage any negative connotations in a consumer's mind by which time it would be long past any financial benefit to a manufacturer.

That's why I have said previously marketing for any product always needs to begin from day one.

If anything needs to be as vital to the theme and its integration, it's the game's pitch. Take Alien - we pitched that specifically as an experience based around the first two movies, because we REALLY wanted to avoid association with any of the 'extended universe' material, like Colonial Marines, that has tarnished the brand before.

Another example is at least three of the more collectable Williamses have brief high-concept pitches that have very little to do with the 'license' part of the theme. Monster Bash - there are monsters and they form a band. CFTBL - 50s drive-in movie culture, of which the Creech movie is only a part. Roadshow - road construction deconstructed by Charlene Carter and pals. How many people forget that Monster Bash and Roadshow have licenses at all?

How you sell it is at least as important as what you intend to sell.

And Mustang is a great game example of the theme mattering. I've owned my 2006 Mustang GT for 10 years now, and still enjoy it. I really really want that pin just based on the theme.

Just played Elvis for the first time tonight, and its layout is very cool. The theme just drove me nuts! Could never have it in my collection.

Yeah but there are millions of Elvis fans who really don't give a shit about pinball who would love to have it just because of the theme.

You think theme matters until you end up wanting a pin like Aerosmith, a band who reminds me of nothing more than Alicia Silverstone, Mrs. Doubtfire and some terrible movie where they were trying to blow up an asteroid or somethin...

That's because you probably weren't alive in the 70s when Aerosmith was awesome. Their first few albums are killer.

After about 1979 I think they kind of suck. But that doesn't change the fact that the theme is one that is attractive to a lot of people.

I was alive...just a baby ba-ba learning how to crawl and walk ya know...I can't relate to Aerosmith at all...but I sure want that pin...so no, theme doesn't matter sometimes I guess.

I will buy a bad game if I like the theme but I won't buy a good game if I hate the theme. I am breaking this rule a bit with Dialed In, just because it's JJP and Lawlor.

Theme is everything for me dude if it doesn't have well drawn artwork I just cant get into it no matter how good the gameplay is sorry dude.

It's a great example of the theme mattering in the opposite direction. As someone who sees a car as a mode of transportation, I see Mustang and see "Box With Wheels That Gets Me Places: THE GAME" ZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZzZZzzzzzz

(Yes, I've played Mustang and it's OK fun...but the theme was an instant turnoff. I'd never buy one BECAUSE of its theme)

Is a great theme with shit rules worth $5000-$15,000?

Indiana Jones is the same theme whether made by Williams or Stem.

I was. But that was so long ago it doesn't matter anymore. It was an excellent theme.... in the 70s.

You could argue that NO game is worth that much. However, since much of the new pin business is based on frontloading sales to get cash in the door and games on the line, a hot theme like Indiana Jones is more likely to do that than a theme that doesn't resonate with customers. Look at Dialed In. Might be the greatest game with the greatest rules of all time...but since there's no emotional attachment to the theme, people are fine to wait and play it first. On the other hand, Ghostbusters flew out the door before anyone laid their hands on it.

Now - a game with a great layout and great rules will find that reputation eventually and sell games eventually...but many of these companies can't wait for "eventually"....so, theme gets things moving.

Well, some get their kicks driving fast, stylish cars, where others get theirs watching cartoons.

Yes but the Stern version also included Crystal Skull.

I also own a 2006 GT (black with silver stripes). I've also got a restored '65 Convertible in the garage (red on red), and my first car was a '66 coupe (powder blue). That said, Mustang, oddly enough, had absolutely ZERO appeal to me as a theme, which just goes to show that theme is both important and highly subjective.

Since we are talking about cars...**WARNING CARGUMENT AHEAD**
Cars and pinball machines are a head/heart decision. I'm thinking about getting a small truck. The two contenders are Canyon Denali and Ridgeline Black Edition. The Honda is faster, has better handling, more comfortable, under bed storage, 2-way tailgate, a 4x8 sheet can lay flat (which is actually of value to me) and, other than towing capacity and low range capability appears to be better in virtually every way. I have never, nor will I ever tow anything beyond possibly a small u-haul and don't ever pull out tree stumps. The head says it is a no-brainer. But then I look at the pics...damn that denali sure is purty..the heart screams Canyon.

I look at all the toys, rules, innovation and game play of Dialed In and my head says "wow, what a fun game, best out there". Then I look at BM66...all the nostalgia of my youth, the characters I instantly recognize, the music, the callouts that make me smile and the heart says "BM66 all the way" (and no, I cant get both)

I know for some a car is simply a tool to get themselves and cargo from point A to point B so crash ratings, fuel economy, reliability are the only thing that matters. For others, the look, feel, sound are all that matters. Those people have it easy. It's not that simple for most of us. Hence the dissonance, the indecision, the struggles. Yes, theme matters but so does everything else.

And that's why the "keepers" are when both collide.

When I was a young lad playing in the arcades I didn't care about themes and even now on location I really don't care but in a home collection its the most important factor for me, I'll play WOZ on location but it will never be part of my home collection.

If theme wasn't one of the most-important components of a succesful pinball machine, pinball manufacturers wouldn't spend the millions of dollars required to use copyrighted themes.

To play no, to play again the wild no, but to own yes.

If a person wants to look for answers, take this into consideration, some games themes were changed mid stride during development such as Stern WWE, that originally was designated as THG. STTNG is a very famous example of theme change, if a person enjoys game history. This is not an abnormality in pinball design, themes change for several reasons (coherence, licensing, timing, marketing, etc) and are not absolutes.

whats THG?

The Hunger Games?

Yes, it matters. I recently sold Blackjack and World Cup 78 to a client. One of his sons likes soccer so he plays WC pretty much exclusively.

Yes, The Hunger Games.
Various reasons why this did not work out with Stern.

WMS STTNG originally was to be based on the 1992 film, Under Siege.
Hence, the "cannons".
The Borg ship was supposed to be the USS Missouri.
The script really did not match the game features and vice versa, so WMS went a different route.
Obviously, history shows they made a good choice in this case.

It is not really revolutionary to see what Stern did in 2012 with their ST, which is essentially is a standard body, STTNG, which of course plays faster in the original.
"Ahead Warp factor 9.9"
"Ah, the Picard Maneuver..."

I can give other examples, but most people seem to get my point.
Theme has relevance, but is not absolute, and never saves bad designs.

so equally as shitty a theme as WWE.

You can throw "Harry Potter" in there as well...and here come the downvotes.

To most people yes...not really to me. Luckily games with themes most awful to me I don't like as well so I don't have to make a decision. WWE or WWF is maybe the worst thing I can think of and those games I can't stand playing.
Of course like you I don;t like Metallica and owned and loved it...for christ sakes I've owned a no fear and that has got to be bottom of the barrel theme.

I can't think of anymore boring activity in the world than fishing. Yet Fish Tales is a great game.

As I love to point out many times people saying a themes "is so stupid" own games that are just as worthless in the theme department.

not from me sir thats for sure, I'm with ya, upvoted and I wish I could do more, if I only had the power.

Not exactly true...

Crappy themes that are good players only have appeal to hard-core pinball fans.

Crappy themes that are poor players appeal to no one.

Good themes that are good players appeal to everyone.

Good themes that are crappy players still have some appeal to the masses.

If a game has a good theme it is at least worth something.

Elvis is a good theme and a great player!

The sopranos is on my hit list.
Never watched the series.
If it was released in a weeks time I wouldn't give it a thought.
There you go.

Well he was the King of Rock 'N' Roll!

Totally agree with this... or to rephrase it: below a certain threshold (around $2k for me) theme does not matter as much.

I own a WPT (poker is not a theme for me) and yet I love the game. No chance I would have bought a NIB Wheel of Fortune, but if I can find one for 2000 euros, I would probably buy it (and I can't think of a worse theme).

Love the Big E but man they need to do a vault with real tracks and from the Vegas years, well maybe not the last few. and and LCD

Nah, theme doesn't matter. I also don't care what a woman looks like: it's what's inside that matters. And cars? Who cares what color mine is (mostly rust, btw) and if it takes 20 seconds going 0-60? And the house I live in? Sure the roof leaks but only when it rains. Nah, theme doesn't matter.