(Topic ID: 151881)

Does the stock market influence your pinball purchases?

By Richthofen

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic poll

    “Does the stock market influence your pinball purchases?”

    • Yes, if the market does poorly I do not buy big ticket items like Pinball machines 21 votes
      14%
    • No, my pinball purchases do not at all correlate with the stock market. 98 votes
      67%
    • Lionman 28 votes
      19%

    (147 votes)

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    image_(resized).png
    image_(resized).jpeg
    skew_(resized).jpg
    the-tonight-show-starring-johnny-carson-carnac-the-magnificent_(resized).jpg
    image_(resized).jpeg

    You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider jchiu.
    Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

    #22 8 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I am not advocating that anyone pick a specific stock, I feel better suggesting that someone buy a low cost index fund that way you are diversified and not exposed to one specific stock which can have it's pitfalls.
    However Apple, last year earned $53B in profit, that's over a Billion dollars a week. 40% profit margins, gives greater than 2% dividend, trades for 9x future earnings.
    Yet the stock sits at or near it's 52 week low.
    Why would a company like Apple and Disney both who beat earnings expectations, Dis really knocked it out of the park on earnings yet Dis fell 4% after earnings report. What can they do? I mean if they crush earnings and they stock still gets hammered, I don't understand what the market is reacting to.

    I think it helps to have some longer term context.

    When you have stocks run up for a long period of time, it's because of tremendous earnings growth. Yes, Apple trades at 9x earnings but their growth has been astronomical over the past 5 years and the stock accordingly. At some point, the law of large numbers takes over.

    Tell me one large cap mutual fund that doesnt own Apple. How many people own at least 1, if not multiple Apple products. The iPhones have been so great, does everyone need to upgrade? The ipad is probably dead - schools are now using chromebooks. And China may forego the brand as their economy slows down and go with a cheaper option as their own technology improves. These are real risks.

    Disney's ESPN is an abomination. The stock trades at 18x earnings but once again, that stock has had a huge run up. Remember only a few years ago it was at less than $50/share. ESPN represents a substantial part of their earnings - more so than Star Wars or the parks. They so overpaid for their ridiculous sports rights that theyre locked in at enormous fixed costs.

    Disney has to hit a home run on pretty much every part of their business just to prevent ESPN from dragging them down. This means more Marvel movies - how many more Super hero brands do they have left? We're now getting to the C - list. They better be pumping out a new Star Wars every year - these franchises better sustain themselves for a long long time.

    Look at the 5 year chart and tell me these two stocks are bargains without having to continue their growth train -which may not be easy to continue forever.

    Nothing I say constitutes any financial advice.

    #25 8 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    ESPN has the highest fees of any cable channel and has something like 97 million subscribers.
    ESPN made $1.4B profit last quarter, I wouldn't exactly say ESPN is dragging them down, some of the lower profit at ESPN was accounted for by the college football play-off schedule aired in a different quarter than last year.

    Here's what you have to know about ESPN. ESPN and ABC — accounted for $5.9 billion of Disney’s $11.1 billion in operating income. Imagine half your income source being at a negative growth rate.

    Yes, it's still earning cash but theyre losing subscribers so that revenue source is going to shrink. They are literally losing millions of subscribers.

    They cant unbundle because stand alone ESPN would cost $20 per month. Are 90 million people going to pay $20/month to watch ESPN?

    ESPN just fired 200 executives from their home office. These were not low paying people. And it wont make a dent on their bottom line.

    ESPN owes the University of Texas $15 million a year for the Longhorn Network for next umpteenth years. As a proud alumnus of the University of Texas, I cant even get the Longhorn Network in CT. So why exactly would you pay $15 million a year for a network and not let the 600,000 alums throughout the country watch the channel? Because they were determined to get X amount for it and wouldnt reduce the price to cable companies. I still cant get it unless I get Direct TV. Comcast doesnt show it.

    They overpaid for every sports franchise by hundreds of millions of dollars and these are locked in - guaranteed contracts.

    This is the type of decision-making that is a black eye to Disney.

    #31 8 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I agree, ESPN may be shrinking (or in transition), but the other income streams are strong, Shanghai Disney opens this year after $5B invested will start to pay back there are 34M people who live in the Shanghai metro area. I don't buy that China is going under. China bought more iPhones than the US last year.
    The Chinese stock market is not great, but China is transitioning to a more consumer driven economy like the US. There are more middle class people in China than the US has. I work with a fellow from China, he says the stock market there is a sham, it's like the dot com bubble of 2000. People don't pay rent and eat off the stock market. They have jobs and earn wages just like everywhere else in the world. China is still growing, it's just slowed down, not double digit growth any more.

    By the way, Im not trying to bag the stock - just pointing out the inherent risks.

    DIS is extremely polarizing but it's also one of Merrill's top picks for 2016.

    #36 8 years ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    My take exactly.....I'm most heavily vested in my company, something I have at least a little control over, and I view the dividends as realized draws, vacations, college for my kids, and a quality of life.
    What was that magic # to retire again? Hard to get it out of my investment guys....oh, and capital gains, a great mechanism...

    The general rule of thumb for retirement is the 4% rule. It's highly controversial - as are all financial planning theories.

    The biggest mistake people make is extrapolating their success. Im making 20% on my business and that will last til X, so why invest when my IRR is higher than any vehicle out there. Or Im making $300k a year and that job will last forever so I have no sense of urgency.

    #40 8 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    4. Be careful if investing heavily in shares of employer’s stock or any individual stock.
    One of the most important ways to lessen the risks of investing is to diversify your investments. It’s common sense: don't put all your eggs in one basket. By picking the right group of investments within an asset category, you may be able to limit your losses and reduce the fluctuations of investment returns without sacrificing too much potential gain.
    You’ll be exposed to significant investment risk if you invest heavily in shares of your employer’s stock or any individual stock. If that stock does poorly or the company goes bankrupt, you’ll probably lose a lot of money (and perhaps your job).

    If you do have a lot of appreciated company stock in your qualified plan, you may be able to use NUA (net unrealized appreciation) to get favorable tax treatment on gains. The cost basis will still be at ordinary rates. In situations like this, be careful with your IRA rollovers. Consult a professional.

    By the way, if you ever want to interview a financial advisor and test his/her acumen, ask them about NUA.

    Nothing I write constitutes tax, legal or financial advice

    #57 8 years ago

    No one can accurately predict the market. The fancy economists make ex post facto explanations on why something happened but rarely can tell you what will happen. It can go up. It can go down.

    Nobody knows.

    #65 8 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    Wrong. Nobody who makes a big noise about predicting it, like banks and stock brokers or CNBC knows. But plenty of people make money regularly, in all sorts of different market conditions, time and time again, and over long periods of time. Of course, they don't go around gloating about it because that is the point at which they know they are being too cocky and will probably take a tumble.

    This is just stupid. It's the Lochness monster - prove it doesnt exist. Prove that Bigfoot doesnt exist.
    '
    Name someone that does not run a business but just makes money in the stock market, trading in and out because they know what will happen to the market for a long period of time. These mysterious wealthy expert market timers.

    #67 8 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    I could name you dozens. The most common cry amongst people who can't do it is that "no one can". Now these people aren't amateur punters who roll up and have a flutter every six months. They are professionals, and they have all been doing it for decades and are in there all the time. You calling it stupid is simply clueless. I'm just passing on a fact. Do with it what you will. And I'm not arguing with you, I'm educating you. I don't care what you think.

    Think about this. If they can actually predict the market why would it take them decades? If they were really able to predict the market, by simple math, they could have hundreds of millions of dollars in a few years - or less.

    And at some point, they would have so much money, they wouldn't need to be in the market at all.

    #69 8 years ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    The guy that rents one of my houses is strictly a " day trader" ( his words). He pays the rent on time, so I'm sure he makes money...not sure how much, as he still is renting ( but everyone prioritized differently)

    It's called gambling. If he was a really good trader, he'd be working on Wall Street.

    I knew a really successful currency trader who worked at UBS. He got laid off and decided to trade on his own. Within a year, he needed to get a job to support his family.

    It's a lot easier to do when it's not your money.

    #74 8 years ago
    Quoted from Richthofen:

    I certainly don't want to turn the conversation into 'the stock market is awesome and here are my picks' thread. Again, I'm not invested but lots of people do well in the market. I just am curious, if we are in for a contraction in market prices, say on par with 2007, would that severely affect resale value of pins, and sale of NIB pins to collectors. I am worried that given that we are due for a recession, simply based on the amount of time since the last one, is that going to take out the NIB manufacturers? I love Stern and one of the few things keeping a lid on prices right now is that supply of new games is still rolling out there.
    My one comment about the market would be that people assume that the way things are now is the way they always were. Massive stock market participation by working class people to fund their retirements is a relatively new thing. Most people had guaranteed defined benefit pension plans before the 80s and 90s. And most people could see a decent return on savings via simple products because there used to be reasonable interest rates from banks back then. Only in the 1980s did Individual Retirement Accounts that are tax-protected become a thing. That means we are likely going to see in the next 5 years the *first* wave of self-funded retirement withdrawals from Baby Boomers. Can Millennials, who are largely wary of the stock market, pay the current prices for stocks to 'cash out' the Boomers? Anyways, I just said I wasn't going to talk about the market and I just did

    Not sure if this is a question/comment or both.

    One theory is that baby boomers will cash out of the market and that's certainly possible. However, baby boomers understand that people are living a lot longer than they used to. This is why you dont see many pension plans anymore (many have switched from DB to Cash Balance or none at all). If you expect to live until 90 or beyond (which is certainly possible), now you have to make that money last - and you need equity type returns. With that in mind, I doubt people will just cash out. What's the alternative - money market rates at 1%?

    This is why people say it's a Fed driven market. The ridiculously low interest rates have helped drive the market returns.

    Corporations used to give pensions because they expected you to retire at 65 and die at 70. Nice little perk for your 30 years of service. 60 is the new 40 blah blah blah.

    The reason government employees still get pensions is because it's taxpayer money and not private money. People who gave these generous pensions dont care because by the time these folks cash in, they themselves will be retired.

    This also applies to CEOs who want to maximize returns so they can drive the stock price up and cash out their options. Who cares what happens 20 years from now. You also see this when companies use their cash to buy back stock under the guise of "shareholder interest" It's the best use of your capital? Really? Youre not just propping up the stock for your own pecuniary gain? or preserving your legacy (and not as the CEO who dropped the ball)?

    With regards to markets affecting Pin prices - there has to be a breaking point. Not sure if there is any item more elastic than Pins. It's unsustainable.

    You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider jchiu.
    Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/does-the-stock-market-influence-your-pinball-purchases?tu=jchiu and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.