(Topic ID: 47975)

Does Stern owe anyone an official explanation?


By Chippewa-Pin

6 years ago



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  • 116 posts
  • 46 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by PinFever
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There are 116 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 6 years ago
Quoted from vex:

I think stern is doing a lot of laughing these days, who can blame them?

Is it a nervous laugh?

#102 6 years ago

No, a sick one.
th-7.jpeg

#103 6 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

Explain what? That they are exuberant that people are tripping over each other to fork over a ton of cash before even seeing a video of gameplay or knowing anything about the code. Sounds like the community owes the community an explanation to me.

Personally I think the hype is fairly justified with this one. There are a lot of exciting things lined up:

Lyman doing code. This is huge for many people, myself included. The fact that both he and Borg are spending their own money to each buy this game for their personal collections says something.

Metal ramps. Simple, but it shows that Borg has been listening to what we have bitching about.

Color changers. I would expect Lyman to do even more with these in his second try. And, maybe honing the implementation on Metallica will also benefit the final ACDC update(s).

A tried and true fan layout + exciting toys. I think Xmen and Avengers suffered a bit from their layouts. I hate the whole lower left area on Xmen. I like the uniqueness of Avengers but many of the shots are a hair too narrow in my opinion. Yes, the vanishing ball trick has been done before. It's still very interesting as are the other toys.

Hand drawn art. Xmen looked great, so does this.

To me, the biggest open questions are: How will the game play? How are the songs implemented?

And if there's one person in the universe that you'd want coding your game, it'd be Lyman. Keith would be a close second for me.

That being said I hope I don't get bumped out of my LE slot.

#104 6 years ago
Quoted from pinmanguy:

the comic argument is stupid as all hell,

Right, but also because, beyond its collectible quality, a comic has a worth of about $0.01.

A pinball machine, on the other hand, will always have some intrinsic value. If still functional and in reasonably good shape- it will never depreciate to a value of zero.

#105 6 years ago

To me the metal ramps was/is a no-brainer for this theme.
It's Metallica, not The Plastics.
To me Metallica is a Metal / Hard Rock type band.
I think a lot would wonder wtf if this pin were to have plastic ramps.

And just to clarify, I have no problem w/ high quality durable plastic ramps on most pins.

#106 6 years ago
Quoted from zucot:

Personally I think the hype is fairly justified with this one.

For me their is no justification for forking that type of cash out before even seeing a video of gameplay and knowing something about the code much less getting some play time on it. That is just for me not saying anything about what others choose to do that is only my standpoint. During the initial excitement of a release just before and after pinheads seem to lose their mind a bit sometimes and justify things that more often then not turn out different then expected.

Home runs with the community happen like AC/DC LE and TRON LE but those are the exceptions most don't turn out like those two did. However, the hype is usually all the same for every release regardless of that fact. I guess the real issue for me is I just don't care to speculate on if I will like a game or not from pictures. As always to each their own I hope you absolutely love it and your order does not get cut.

#107 6 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

For me their is no justification for forking that type of cash out before even seeing a video of gameplay and knowing something about the code much less getting some play time on it.

Dude, I agree 100%. I've only bought one new car in my life, and the thought of buying something that hasn't even been made yet, let alone tested is totally against my nature. But every once in a while you've got to throw caution to the wind and take a chance, especially when what brain cells we have left are telling us it's a no lose proposition. Hello LE!

#108 6 years ago

To me it seems like many pinball enthusiasts give credit to Stern employees (designers, and in general all of the workforce) for some of their past/recent successful pinball machines, and feel that it was worth the risk to jump on one of the LE's this time around knowing that Metallica is a popular band around the world.

#109 6 years ago
Quoted from pinmanguy:

the comic argument is stupid as all hell, actually works in the opposite to how it's being argued here, the limited edition comics were an issue because they were not limited and the market was flooded with them. In the case with metallica it is being limited as it should be. I think limited editions are stupid personally but I get it gives them guaranteed sales and some people like the collecting aspect, raising the number of limited editions is the same thing comics did which led to the value dropping fast and collectors looking to appreciate the value of their purchases moving onto other things

Exactly. People fail to realize the demand curve for limited edition items is not a smooth one. It's very high with limited numbers but then at some point as quantity increases it drops like a rock and everyone who paid extra for the LE takes a bath. The challenge is to sell as many as you can but not step off the cliff.

This is why the "make as many LEs as people want and then stop making them after that" argument doesn't hold water. They might sell well for a game or two, but as soon as people realized LEs could be had in the secondary market for the same or less as NIB, without the pre-order risk or the risk the rules/design might be a turd, the whole thing falls apart and the demand for LEs dries up.

#110 6 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

This is why the "make as many LEs as people want and then stop making them after that" argument doesn't hold water. They might sell well for a game or two, but as soon as people realized LEs could be had in the secondary market for the same or less as NIB, without the pre-order risk or the risk the rules/design might be a turd, the whole thing falls apart and the demand for LEs dries up.

Not true if the company continues to churn out hit product after hit product (and who wouldn't want them to). The demand stays high, since the LE can only be had for a limited period of time. Demand won't fall apart if people believe there will be demand for the LE in the future. That is then driven by it being a quality design/title with hot rules that is fun to play. I thought that was the point of pinball in this boutique age, every game should be well thought out and executed to be a hit.

-1
#111 6 years ago
Quoted from PinFever:

The only reason people are sweating it is the perceived missed financial opportunity. <<<<<wrong ..
Just send me out a MOPLE cab & head with a premium Playfield and leave off the Plate . Only one of the lot I like the art package .plain and simple. Cost matters not, It is going to sit in my House and I want a Color Shade art package that is pleasing to my eye. Plain and simple. If I liked the other one I would have ordered it

Then buy one one the secondary market and quit whining like a baby

#112 6 years ago
Quoted from heckheck:

Not true if the company continues to churn out hit product after hit product (and who wouldn't want them to). The demand stays high, since the LE can only be had for a limited period of time. Demand won't fall apart if people believe there will be demand for the LE in the future. That is then driven by it being a quality design/title with hot rules that is fun to play. I thought that was the point of pinball in this boutique age, every game should be well thought out and executed to be a hit.

In your scenario, you say the value would be the same (demand stays high).

Let's say I bought 10 LEs during that "limited time" banking on future appreciation. What's to stop others from doing the same? And if 100 people/distributors were all sitting on 10 LEs, are LEs really limited? What are they worth, and bear in mind, the vast majority of people who actually wanted a LE just to play or to keep in their collection "forever" got them already in the initial run at MSRP or better. (This is exactly the scenario that played out in the comic book market example you mentioned)

In your scenario the LE would only appreciate significantly if the game was a sleeper hit and people decided not to buy the LE during its initial run, resulting in "naturally" limited numbers. (Maybe this will happen in five years if all of pinball goes crazy and RSLE becomes the must-have game)

My guess if limited runs were a reality, they would eventually settle to a price just slightly above Premiums given their possibly slightly lower numbers, higher upfront costs (sellers more reluctant to sell and take a loss) and maybe reflecting some peoples' preference for the trans/cab.

There is just no comparison to your scenario vs a low fixed number of games as it affects game value.

#113 6 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

In your scenario, you say the value would be the same (demand stays high).
Let's say I bought 10 LEs during that "limited time" banking on future appreciation. What's to stop others from doing the same? And if 100 people/distributors were all sitting on 10 LEs, are LEs really limited? What are they worth, and bear in mind, the vast majority of people who actually wanted a LE just to play or to keep in their collection "forever" got them already in the initial run at MSRP or better. (This is exactly the scenario that played out in the comic book market example you mentioned)
In your scenario the LE would only appreciate significantly if the game was a sleeper hit and people decided not to buy the LE during its initial run, resulting in "naturally" limited numbers. (Maybe this will happen in five years if all of pinball goes crazy and RSLE becomes the must-have game)
My guess if limited runs were a reality, they would eventually settle to a price just slightly above Premiums given their possibly slightly lower numbers, higher upfront costs (sellers more reluctant to sell and take a loss) and maybe reflecting some peoples' preference for the trans/cab.
There is just no comparison to your scenario vs a low fixed number of games as it affects game value.

How does any of what you said benefit Stern in selling more pins I'm wondering. I can see how it *might* benefit a very small number of hoarders in the short run on a limited LE run of 500, but I think Stern would sell about the same number of games (LE + premiums) in both scenarios. Indeed, I think they might sell more in my scenario. If the game is good, it certainly wouldn't hurt to make more of the more desirable art package to boost sales by having more of the more attractive all around package that appeals to future owners. The only way Stern makes out any better in your scenario is if the game sucks and they wouldn't have sold the 500 in the first place.

Hoarders don't have infinite cash, so the games need to find players eventually, the market of players is only so big, so the games going into it are pretty much a constant (hopefully growing as new people discover pinball). The better overall the quality of games on average, the more might be sold, but I don't think pin-vestor speculation drives this at all. Unless you are banking on the "greater fool" theory where people start to look at pins as non-depreciable assets and start building their retirement portfolios out of pins. If so, that is a bubble for sure and they always end badly regardless of how LEs are apportioned.

#114 6 years ago

Stern owe no one an explination.
They are pushing their way through a market.

A market that never existed(like this) or has not existed for a looooooooooong time now.

You must admit, they are keeping it pretty much alive by themselves now.
I'm visiting in Finnland and here it's one Stern after the other.
They're flashy, they're loud. They give you instant feedback and quick joy.

I don't blame them for doing one contract, after another, after another, after another, after another. Raking it, if they can. They should.

Always pushing it to the limit, of what people can expect when they don't expect anything and so, pretty much "killing it"(but not in a good way). A lot of things.

But you can only stretch yourself soo much. As one good license after another is wasted(like tron2.0 for example. What a waste. The robot guys are shaking their heads) More effort is put into the dotmatrix animations and sounds.
We are converted back to the 70's/80's.
When money was time and time was...different.

But they are often more gimmicks than they are games anyway. LE or not. To me. Spin offs.
Neat additions to a franchise with no real value(as in Transformers or CSI).
Maybe one gimmick or two(ooooh magnets).
But that's it. Oh well.

ps: This Metallica thing is actually a very good idea though. Of course it's probobly go be another figure collectors wet dream (Under glass. HA! You go chisel your way through that my sorry friend).
The artists themselves probobly really want it to be good(Well I would bet James Heatfield does).

DONT DO JUSTIN BIEBER! PLEASE!
He will ask.
(Unless its one where you have to hit him in the crotch....he's got one right? 10 ball multiball! Yeha!)
They should have done one for the GOP race. You walk past a couple of machines and suddenly you hear a familiar voice saying"I have some friends who are NASCAR team owners."

Post edited by The_Dude_Abides : o button seemed to get stuck on ya. : )

#115 6 years ago
Quoted from heckheck:

How does any of what you said benefit Stern in selling more pins I'm wondering. I can see how it *might* benefit a very small number of hoarders in the short run on a limited LE run of 500, but I think Stern would sell about the same number of games (LE + premiums) in both scenarios. Indeed, I think they might sell more in my scenario.

In the short term, yes, I agree they could sell more. In the long term, it's your comic book scenario of saturating the market and killing demand.

The key to limited editions in my view is keeping them limited, so that when the next title comes the anticipation and demand carry over. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on it.

#116 6 years ago

I emailed and eventually talked to Jim Belt, Director of Distributor Sales at Stern on Friday. He told me that they did not give the distributors their allocation until after the game release and all the hype. I asked him, if he thought that was a good way to treat their customers and distributors, because a lot of people got screwed. He said maybe they would do better next time.

In the end, I am not sure what I was trying to accomplish. More wanted to vent at him. He seemed to not really give a crap about me or any of the others who had their orders cancelled. I had money down on Steve Richie's next game as well. Not sure if I will ever by NIB from Stern again.

Carey
^^^
Thanks for that Carey , Good to know that he has the same attitude towards you and anyone he talks to.. \
As Far as MOPLE goes . Hope it is great for all you that ordered it and do get it. Happy Stern Continues to make Pinball . Not happy with Sales Model . I do have receipt of full payment for the machine 4/11/13 and emails stating it's mine and make payment here .. as some has said I don't . It matters not ,Still told not getting it . yes I can take action . Still may ,

I wont stop buying pinball machines . I want a Star Trek LE and I have not seen it or seen it played , But since I lost out on MOPLE I will try to get ST LE . If at all Possible.. I know who not to order from this time.. Wish all would tell who not to buy(order Cut) from so I do not get Hopes up for a whole week and then told look elsewhere when to late ..

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