please stop the drama...take a break, you're getting worked up and you want to fight the ref?

You don't see moderation ban votes, so I don't really know how you could say one way or the other. They're only visible to the person who gets them.

And moderation is a thankless task, run entirely by volunteers. If you have issues talk to Robin, don't bag on the mods. I get your frustration, but don't take it out on them, it's not deserved.

I went to a "wholly unmoderated forum" and all I got was this half a year ban.

Yes, SERIOUSLY.

Jack's been talking the same shit for the last year, please don't try and sell me some sob story about the crap he's dealing with causing some momentary lapse. We all have bad days, this isn't that. He's running a business, don't insult your core customers, it's not all that hard. I cannot imagine why we should possibly roll over for him on that. I for one am tired of it. So I said something. I couldn't care less if Jack reads it, I'd send him an email if I cared. This is about Pinside.

That is completely true. But you would see the outcome of ban votes in people who are banned.

And trust me I know moderation is a thankless job as I do so on 9 sites currently.

Watch out for that word volunteer. It's an evil word here. In fact it was used as a derogatory term in this thread.

2014 post-of-the-year candidate!

Can't we all just get along?

Gina Gershon >>> Elizabeth Shue

Lol there goes the moderation. You gave me a ban vote for cursing and not even at anyone? What is this kindergarten? Go check out the NFL thread. You will pretty much wipe out everyone in there.

Thank you for proving my point.

Well it may not be so much that you don't count, but instead that jack doesn't owe you any explanation as to shipping delays or what is taking so long to ship games. So instead he announces those things on a forum that he controls where his customers exist that actually have a direct reason to care. I think that's fair. Don't you?

You got banned once / a time out.
Is that not an example ?

Back on topic, I will let you know when I recieve my game. Untill I get my game, all bets are off for a second or third pin.

the only point you proved is what i already posted here. please don't swear, that is against pinside rules, you really should know better and please ease up the throttle on the drama.

Honestly Alex, how do you know who else I've given ban votes to in this thread? You are argumentative and don't listen and don't stop when asked respectfully to do so ... repeatedly. You know very little about the operation of this site and have made many incorrect assumptions.

Have a good evening.

But that's not what I was complaining about. What Jack owes us is some respect. He can announce on his own platform all day long, why not? I'm not asking Jack to come in here, it's usually a bad idea frankly. I'm not taking Gary to task here, all he does is ignore us. Jack can ignore us too. He can think Teekee is a troll or whatever, I don't care, but he calls out Pinside as a whole all time. If I met Gary and he called Pinside names I'd say f*&$# him too.

#1 moderation rule at Ars Technica (I run the moderation team there)? You don't argue with moderation in the thread. Take it to PM if you have issues. All it does is undermine the mods, it never makes things better.

Alex I get that you're frustrated, and i think you being here at Pinside is a good thing. But you're not helping your case here. Walk away for a minute and you'll know I'm right.

Who would think that?

Ice you gotta stop giving away free legal advise and put that money into some dental work for your wife.

I have family that lives in Boerne and without a doubt the nicest part of Texas.

Thanks for the generous offer for the pro bono legal advise, luckily no need now.

I too have offered to bet a few of the "Dirty Dozen" on some of their malicious JJP statements but as usual it's all talk with no financial courage.

I think Jack has been disrespected just a little more here then he has shown by using the"other site" word.

He's a big boy, he can take it.

Oh jeez....I stopped in before watching another episode of walking dead for THIS?

Pinchroma sorry to hear you don't like the moderation on Pinside
maybe it's time to move on

Why doesn't everyone just accept that this is not a topic that minds are going to be changed on, and move on? Another locked thread does no good. These threads have not been going anywhere for a good year now. It is what it is. Raised blood pressures are so not worth the 4 people that care one way or another.

That could be code for RGP in all fairness. Wait, your right we are the other site.

I tried to teach my kids that they needed to learn when to stop and calm down when they were having tantrums they usually got the hang of it by the time they were 8.

What I have noticed in my short time here on pinside is the following generalisations:

Usually a lot of the real heavy posters get a ban/time out at some point and my theory is that they get opinionated up their own backsides, get a sort of cult following and start to think they are Mods, Robin or his right hand person, then the time out hits them like a hammer (not a Metallica one as that doesn't work yet obviously) and then they normalise again

In every thread like this one up to 6 or 7 pairs (same old faces it seems, even to me) start to go at each other to the point of personal attacks, they then pull back and start thumb-upping each other and the worlds a lovely place again (tits help no end here of course).

To answer the question about noobs seeing threads like this all I say is if they take the time to read just a few other threads then they, like me, would say that all in all pinside is entertaining and informative with an underlying heart of gold (just look at the feel good threads). The diversity of threads is gold in itself. As has been mentioned EVERYONE has a bad day sometimes but when the bad day is everyday then the mods and Robin need to step in swiftly with the ban hammer. Sure it can seem a little one sided or cliquy especially when you are a noob like me but that my friends is real life. The handsome and pretty people get the easiest ride seriously though Moderating is a thankless job and I think zero tolerance would be a bad thing, give everyone a chance to count to ten IMHO.

Remember I said generalisations

Why would it be a good idea to drive off (or ban) one of the only guys on here that's actually working for a pinball company? This is large pinball site but we are wanting to get rid of someone in the pinball industry? Gee I wonder why Jack isn't active here and why stern employees don't come here.

Robin's new year goal was to have *more* industry people here, not less.

This is classic stuff. Probably a Pinside thread of the year. If I didn't know how bad grammatically it was to say this, I would call it an Epic Moderation Fail. Shouldn't you guys be the ones doing this in a PM??? Is Alex the guy you want to chase out of here?

When a thread starts to derail, I wonder if one solution could be a "temporarily" lock - say new posts are blocked for 12 or 24h? One way for the mods to warn people things are a bit overheated without flagging anyone as a culprit.

I believe the children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way.
Show them all the beauty they possess inside.

Sorry.

Good post!

Pen

This is one of the worst WOZ/jjp threads ever.
It's like you guys aren't even trying anymore.

Duh!
because WOZ is their standard size (see southern pinball festival 2012 speech for reference).

This. Go read the Metallica code thread if you want to see what it's like without official representation by someone working for a manufacturer. It's full of people with half glimpses into what's going on and no real substance.

IMHO there are a number of individuals here that have a clear, repeated habit of making it a point to shit all over JJP and/or Stern every chance they get.

Yes, WOZ is running quite a bit late.
Yes, Stern code is way too slow and their community messaging sucks.

If I were in charge of this site I would notify these individuals (it wouldn't be hard to figure out who) that they have made their points quite clear and that it's time to stop plastering every thread with the same old same old. It's dragging the site down in a bad way. This is supposed to be a fun hobby. If I were a newb I would be completely put off by a ton of the stuff that gets posted here.

Maybe some of you should troll less and do something better with your time. I hear pinball is fun.

Someone openly criticized the mods, claimed no moderation and put them on point to answer to him.
The mods do not work for or have to answer to anyone using the forum.

If someone is called out in public a public reply should be expected.
If you poke someone they might poke back.

Sorry english is my second language. Why did they send a few people home? I didnt understand that part. Thanks.

I got no problem with Jack not posting here (He is better of building games), but he did write "i will access everything" in the private forum, not sure if that post really did help.

I'm not quite sure I follow this thread any more ... can we go back to the pre-ordering more Texas T&A part and just forget the rest?

What would Gerry do?

There's nothing to follow.

It's just the same old people, Monday-morning-quarterbacking other people's ballsy decisions to pre-order and help startup a new Pinball company.

And the same people like to gloat about it,,, that's why they put smiley faces after their smart-assed remarks about JJP.

People (many of which have no stake in WOZ or Hobbit) taking joy in JJP not being able to deliver WOZ to it's buyer's in a timely manner. It's pretty sad in reality

This thread needs more cartwheel

While I think your new avatar is hilarious, its throwing me off. Change quickly or never change again.... "Do or do not, there is no try"

Or something.

Pen, did you sleep??? When I went to bed last night you were just finishing up "giving me the business" and now I wake up and who do I see?

Did you stay up all night to help create this mess here? I knew I should have stayed up to keep this thread under control...

LOL, I have a twin.

This is the good one.

Just remember, I was "giving you the business" about stirring the pot

Good Luck with your pot stirring ...extra smiley face

That looks like Flavor Flav's gf.

I hear ya.There are a few people on Pinside who just love to poke the bear and jab at JJP / WOZ for any reason. These people seem to forget what Jack did with WOZ. He didn't make a stripped down game with WOZ for his companies first game. Instead he formed a new pinball a company in a time when everyone else thought it was crazy and made a game far more complex then what the competition offered. Banks wouldn't even give him a loan then as what bank would give a loan to fund a pinball company in 2011+? None!

Jack said JJP was not going for third place with WOZ and the game speaks for itself. Sure there's been shipping delays. How many other pinball companies use direct print for cabinets and then clear it? None. How many other pinball companies are making fully loaded wide body games with an LCD? None. When you make a game as complex / fully loaded as WOZ there may be issues with getting parts from vendors. That's what JJP is working on now and the good thing is that they are working on it.

What Jack and JJP did for this hobby is outstanding. They brought back the fully loaded wide body pinball machine in a time where a lot of new games are being stripped down and has already made Stern up their game. Sure we could of all had a stripped down WOZ a year or two ago for $5k but myself and many others think the wait was well worth it for the game that is being made today.

No one is taking joy in JJP not delivering WoZ in a timely manner. I think you'll find people are puzzled, shocked and maybe a little disgusted that he chose to not bother sending games to people who not only paid for, but waited a long time for their games in favour of sending out games to people who can buy them now and therefore have no long term investment in his company, that was never mentioned in all the fanfare when WoZ was announced.

In short, people are annoyed that Jack isn't as open and honest as he claims to be.

I realise wheels need to be oiled to keep the juggernaut rolling, he needs the cashflow, it's just a shame at some of the tactics that have taken place in order to keep it going.

This is pretty common with factories. If a part or something is holding up the line, they temporarily lay off some of the line workers. It usually comes with the promise they will be rehired when the parts come in and the line starts back up.

Pre-Order days are over for Stern, JJP and all. If you want a game, buy it when it comes out

Sometimes, I think the Pinside definition of troll has become "someone who disagrees with me".