For me. I am middle class (or at least like to think so) and probably a little crazy. I am plunking down 8k for a Hobbit pinball machine instead of investing it in the stock market. A large portion of the population can't save money to save their lives, and I have my moments like anyone.

After I pay off this hobbit I will have a machine I can sell for 9k... 8k...7k...6k...5k...4k, 10k by Christmas? Who knows. What I do know is if I didn't buy this machine, I would have wasted that money on other stupid shit anyway so when/if I do finally sell it, even if for only 4k... I will still be ahead 4k and I will have been playing an awesome game for a couple years (assuming it fits in my front door). I'm certainly not in this for profit, breaking even would be nice though

Becase they are not mine to address. And a 200 year old quote is a personal attack? Maybe the shoe does fit. And if for a second that a poll on a forum site is some kind of statistical affirmation then you deserve the mockery.

I have to ask, since you have made it clear in your many posts that you would never purchase a NIB JJP game, why make this thread at all? Since you have ZERO interest in becoming a customer what is YOUR motivation for this thread? The ONLY answer to that is to be a troll.

Let's go through your posts about woz and let's see if anyone doesn't think you are a troll afterwards: (These are just the first few I clicked on)

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/woz-on-the-way-what-now#post-1325221
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/first-woz-mod-now-available-only-100-available
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/epic-battle-jjp-vs-stern-video-proof#post-1374413

Sorry man you are just a troll with no real reason for being here.

And my question was rhetorical. I care less about the resale of my pins, than you do obviously. Whatever man, have fun price pumping games you bought from a distributor to resell to suckers. The reason I'm calling you out, is because you don't know when to quit.

I know of more WOZLEs that have sold for more than the purchase price than not. That does not mean they all will, now or in the future.

I am in this for the love of pinball. If I got in on WOZ for profit, I would have sold it quite a while ago, and I would have bought more then one.

Thats because your goal is to claim you know the price point on every pin regardless of sales. One just sold for $8,500
with a second buyer waiting. Your also forgetting that most of the games delivered have had the early issues. I would expect a price break too, if the game may be down for a while.

See, WOZLE is worth about $8,500 because I know of many that have sold at that price. Most people find your credibility lacking. My game is not for sale. You can buy one from jack though. How much will it cost you?

If WOZ is worth $7,500 then BIBLE is worth $5,000 not the crazy $14,000 you claim it is worth.

You have no credibility to price pins and expect people to take you seriously, and the reason is not because of WOZ its because of the price pumping you have done in the past.

Sorry, thats a fact.

I'm not convinced the actual market return is relevant because at the time you have to make the decision, future market moves are unknowable.. The comparison I think you're attempting to make is akin to saying "People that bought a broad-market index made less money than if they had bought this hypothetical and concentrated portfolio of equities." My reaction is "yea, so what? They took more risk and got more reward." Data mining a short period of history and attempting to use it as a basis for future decision making doesn't work.

_{Post edited by swf127 : Edited for clarity}

My opinion is get a WOZ in your house now before the house blows away. Only if you like the game though. If your buying it for profit and your not a distributor... good luck with that plan. You may or may not make money on a used game.

Yes, I wish I knew what was going to happen three years in the future so I could make the appropriate investment choices now. Heck, even 3 weeks in the future. If such were the case it wouldn't take long before I could buy all the pinball machines I wanted regardless of the price .

So angry.

<emperor>Let the HATE flow!</>

Maybe Jack doesn't pay you enough. Hit him up for a raise...

You call yourself a developer... You can't even get markup language syntax correct

It's </emperor>.

Without JJP for competition you would be paying Stern $5200 for a game equivalent to Austin Powers. Or $5600 for equivalent to Wheel of Fortune with uncompleted code by now.

JJP came into existence over these same issues. Stern would have kept cheapening them up even more because they were the only game in town and was quite aware of that. Thats why their sales were down. They were killing their own business building junk with no features and incomplete code.

ooops....duplicate post

So are you if you are not going to provide any useful information. Thanks for stopping by, though.

HTML isn't coding but touche'.

Is the pope polish?

So you are saying that a $7800 STLE will be worth more than a preordered $6500 WOZLE in 2-3 years? Doubtful....

LOL don't tell that to the million folks who think basic HTML knowledge makes them a developer.

Show me what useful information you have EVER posted? I'll be sitting here waiting... and waiting... and waiting...

There are probably about 10-15 folks here who are basically tits on a bull.

Never mentioned anything about STLE Where did you come up with that?

Stop insulting tits!

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I prefer the phrase, " like tits on a nun".

Yeah, so the complete turnaround at Stern has nothing to do with the new investors and management company Stern partnered with (coincidentally three years ago) or the return of Steve Ritchie and instead has everything to do with JJP? No wonder Jack's head is so big it is about to explode. Personally I think very little has changed at Stern as a result of JJP entering the market. The things that were changed at Stern were changed because they took a good look inward at all of the problems and embraced some fresh new ideas and made some hard choices.

Heres what you said about WOZLE:

"Plenty for sale in the $7500 range and many pre ordered at that price. Who knows what they are actually selling at...

The more that get delivered the more the price will fall... sorry you can't accept that this is happening.

Even if you pre ordered at $6500 there is no way that was actually worth a 2-3 year wait.

You need to understand the difference between opinions and facts."

STLE is $7800. I'd say my WOZLE is well worth the $6500 and 2 1/2 year wait compared to paying $7800 for a STLE right now. There is simply a lot more game in WOZLE. The preorder was worth it on this game. On Hobbit for only a $500 discount I doubt its really worth it unless Stern keeps raising their prices even higher and JJP pumps their price up more to match it. But Stern surely is not going to sell their next generation operating system game in an LE for less than STLE was priced at.

My crystal ball is in the shop getting repaired....

IMHO JJP had / has the opposite effect and raised pin prices.
Both companies have enjoyed the increase in retail pricing, enjoy it until sales drop.

A side note WPT is a pretty deep rules game that could be had NIB on closeout (as well as WOF) from the Playdium for $2650~$2800'ish and it was one of the best bargains in pinball. SM & LOTR are also a couple example of good games that were well under the new price point. You cant really cite their success on external forces, it was Stern's own doing and code updates made them great games.

If anything the horrible order fulfillment on JJP's side has likely helped Stern sales as well, it sure has not hurt them.

They did the turnaround when they found out they would have competition and knew they had to step up their game. A good move on their part. But it was in response to finally having competition. Don't forget they had gotten rid of Steve Ritchie and other great talent long before.

Source?

You're right on that stuff for sure Cal50. They both keep jumping prices in response to the other raising theirs. Its gonna be a long time before either starts competing in the downside on prices. My original point was that Stern kept their prices the same and cheaped up the games. And when competition came in they started putting more back into their games again.

That's pretty funny. Equally valid

I haven't purchased a JJP machine (yet) but did anyone really think that Jack was going to be able to produce a machine without any hiccups at all? Yes the guy was in the arcade business and has background in selling machines but manufacturing is a whole different business. After years and post after post about others bringing a new machine to the market I think Jack is the first one to do so, correct?

I certainly understand people being PO'd over the amount of time it's taking but once again this a a first time for him. I have to admit that Jack producing the Standards before completing the run of pre-paid LEs is a poor Customer Service decision but it might be possible that without the revenue from those machines the LEs might not have come to fruition. Maybe it was a complete monetary decision. Who knows, all one can do is speculate (which has been done over and over).

IMO Jack's lack of communication is the only thing he is guilty of. The fact that he advises buyers that their machine will be done by November, January no wait maybe March is asinine and is probably the reason as to why TH LE is not sold out.

My prediction is, for anyone that ordered MMr, that Rick will also encounter problems. Although he is producing a machine that has already been design he is dealing with other companies to bring the deal to fruition. Since I am one that has pre-ordered a MMr I hope this is not the case but I am already expecting delays to occur, this is business. Heck the meeting with Roger was already delayed. Albeit a few days, yet to be determined, but still delayed.

(would someone kick the soapbox out already)

With Jack still producing WoZ LEs and with WoZ 75th LEs to be produced in Summer I can speculate that TH will also encounter delays. If Jack incurs delays on his 3rd machine the customer base might be lost to the point it's not feasible for him to be in the manufacturing business. Hopefully this won't happen as I am a fan of WoZ, hope to buy one and Stern certainly needs the competition, as any business does!

My friend works for the government and said that they're about to pass a bill to make pinball machines illegal again so tell your friend to find another job!

Wow this was fun so I will now sit back and wait for everyone to tear this apart!

WTF?? My comment was directed at someone else's comment. Who cares about STLE? For all I know that one might be worth $6000 in a year or two who knows. I don't count on any of these pins increasing much if at all in value anymore. Those days are gone. Too many being made. Companies are flooding the market… have no idea how STLE came into the picture here?

I do know that STLE is a helluva lot more fun to play than WoZ but I agree WoZ has a lot more of the bells and whistles and you got a lot of pin for the money… problem is its just not a keeper. Its not fun. No lastability. After the WOW wears off its a pretty bland pin play wise. That's one of the major reasons we see the flood of these for sale. Too many yet to be delivered as well so I don't know how things will ever get better.

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I was a lot quicker my first time.

Flood?

Did I stutter?

Yikes, that doesn't sound good. Another delay...Can anyone go by JJP's tomorrow and take a picture of the parking lot?

Don't see a flood. Maybe a trickle...

If you do not understand the code, and your not sick of the same layout you have already played countless times, then your opinion is still just your opinion.

The bottom line is I hate seeing people talk up the prices on a game they own by thousands of dollars while pricing down others they don't own yet.

Once again, I do not know of any that have sold for less than purchase price, and in most cases they have sold for more than their purchase price.

Everyone knows how you feel. Your on every JJP thread talking about it. Please clean your record, its skipping.

Noah said these same words… check the Bible

teekee 5:32

Quit fighting…..

sexy-texas-superfans-32.jpg

As long as some keep 'quoting' me and responding to me (like you did) you will get a response… I have as much right as you do to be here. We know how you feel as well and it doesn't stop you.

A Woz sold at auction last month for 6200 , not sure if it was an LE or not.

Hey, I got mine, plenty people do and they love it like me, it SUCKS big hairy balls that the rest haven't been delivered yet and the communication/clarity has been non existent, when the others get it hopefully very soon, most will love and some won't……..simple as that

In the meantime we can always pull out the titty archives……

Horns.jpg

Not sounding good here...and still silence from Jack pending his announcement.

That's the problem! Its not fighting or at least it doesn't have to be… for some reason some take WoZ way too personally so opposing comments and opinions come across as fighting. It shouldn't! RELAX!

I won't be buying one so I could care less.

That would make sense, parts supply shortage, not gonna pay people to stand around with their weiners in hand….

sexy-texas-superfans-15.jpg

Sorry, I disagree with this. I think Stern stepped up their game when they got investors that provided funding and was able to rehire Gomez, Ritchie, and Lyman. They did not step up their game only due to "oh crap" pressure from JJP. Both these events occurred nearly at the same time because it was when pinball took an up-turn and the market allowed for these things to happen. If you want to credit JJP for anything, you can credit them for the increased prices stern charges for its LE models. Due to the above, I'm sure we would have gotten there anyway, but I think it was rapidly accelerated when they saw how much people were willing to pay.