(Topic ID: 231996)

Does High Tap Exist on System 11 games?

By darcangeloel

5 years ago


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#8 5 years ago
Quoted from darcangeloel:

So I am looking at the manual but I'm not seeing where this is listed? IE I'm not seeing anything labeled for setting the transformer jumpers.
https://www.ipdb.org/files/1841/Williams_1989_Police_Force_Operations_Manual.pdf

Um, it's right there on page #94

#19 5 years ago

His problem is that there is TOO much power at the coils.

I've just followed along until now but you will need to provide some additional information to resolve this, using a voltmeter. Check for DC voltages at the lugs of all coils. Put GND black lead on the side rail of the cabinet and put the RED lead on each coil lug in the game.
What DC readings did you get?

Check your AC WALL VOLTAGE at the plug.
What AC reading did you get?

Confirm you are not using an extension cord, power regulator, or power inverter/generator.
No?

Additionally, confirm that all your boards are grounded and that the ground braid screw in the bottom of the head is actually connecting the lower and upper cabinets with your METER.
Yes?

#22 5 years ago

No worries, I understand and I thought you may have just overlooked the first post.

I have my suspicions about the actual problem but want to confirm AC power at the source and the coils first.

Another thing I would confirm is that all of your fuses in the game are of the proper rating and none are bypassed.

#36 5 years ago

I’m putting my money on a bad rectification on the AUX board. Can you test all the diodes and large transistors with a voltmeter on the AUX board?

#48 5 years ago
Quoted from darcangeloel:

eh looks like impedances factor into AC making this shit extra complicated. I'm gonna go with grumpy's idea and see if that fixes it. IF so I guess all my games are going on these hahaha. Ty I will report back once I give it a shot!

I do not think this is the source of your problem and I do not believe it will resolve your problem. 115-125VAC is within the normal acceptable ranges for US homes. None of your other games are affected, and you have confirmed the same source AC voltage on those machines.

Also, how did the game act this way when it was at the guy's house you bought it from? He said it had the same problems when he owned it.

Reducing the line voltage to a point where the game's solenoids work properly (well below 115VAC) will reduce the other voltages in the machine and is likely cause other problems like game resets. (a low 5VDC condition)

I guess for $60+shipping, at least you will have a cool toy to try out on stuff.

#59 5 years ago
Quoted from darcangeloel:

This is what puzzles me as well. All the other games don't act that way and they are using the same source as is everything else in the house (Everything runs nicely my house is less than 40 years old (built in 1980 something hahaha) my point being most electrical standards would have been the same for the time these games came out (My system is all system 11) so unless someone screwed it up and only one pinball machine is having the issue then it seems odd to me as well. I'm still thinking about the Variac as I'm sure if it doesn't help it would for other projects. However I do agree that it would be surprising if that just resolved the issue.
However to grumpy's point I took readings off my ES and BK2K and both of those report back around 75 DC on the coils (For 50V coils) so it seems to be somewhat high on all my games but only police force shows that in the performance of the game.
I'm going to turn and turn on all the games and see if I can get the line voltage to drop a bit. If that helps then we'll know on way or the other (Well assuming it drops enough hahaha).
I wonder if instead of testing the transistors or diodes on that aux power supply if I should test the output at the pins of that board and see if they are too high. Or would that just be a waste of time as we know what is getting to the coils is already too high >.<

There is more to it than just voltage. Voltage is only one piece of this equation.

Beyond a problem with the transformer, you likely have bad DC rectification on this game.

Take your AUX driver board out of Earthshaker and see if the problem still exists. If it does not, you can place the problem on the AUX driver board in PF causing this issue. Swapping boards is the cheapest and least technical way to test this.(Lower right board in the head.) The AUX board in both games is exactly the same and we've established your Earthshaker does not have this issue.

#61 5 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

He has higher than normal voltage on all his games that have a aux power supply.

The Earthshaker does not have any problems. Also, the OP indicated that this Police Force had these same problems at the previous owner's house in his first post.

#63 5 years ago

So you are saying the previous owner experienced these same problems because why again?

Seriously, it's more likely the wrong flipper coils are installed rather than two separate owners of this machine BOTH having too much power at their wall outlets.

Blindly throwing parts at the problem will not fix the issue with this machine.

Oh, and 75VDC is a fairly standard VDC reading for flipper coils in a system 11 games. Even for a game with WEAK FLIPPERS.

-->
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/taxi-flipper-weak

#69 5 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

If you believe this, then I challenge you to test your mousin around pin and post the results. Check wall outlet and coil voltage.

Here ya go. On my Mousin’. You can believe whatever you want, doesn’t make it true.
Looks like the increase of about 9 volts AC increases the DC flipper coil voltage less than 2 volts. That’s not going to be enough to cause the issues described in the original post.

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#71 5 years ago

Every system 9/11 game’s voltages that I have ever owned are around these same values and I have owned a LOT of them.

I’m not looking in there to check on the coils. It’s not relevant.

#77 5 years ago

Many things can cause this. Connections, corrosion, partially failed brides and diodes, etc. The board may still need to be serviced, even if it’s working now. I have seen this quite a few times with games that have a AUX boards. Glad you figured it out.

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