Got the Ghostbusters bug again today where you can have multiple modes active at once. I had the He Slimed Me one from the left ramp and the Spook Central from the right side active at the same time. I *think* it may have been because there was a Terror Dog hurryup I got at the same time I activated He Slimed Me, and it left the modes open to be activated, which allowed me to hit the Spook Central and start that, too. Annoying because most of the time (always?) you can't end the second simultaneous mode, so your game is hosed.

it's nice too hear from the coder/developer which we have with TNA. While the code is solid already Scott is still tweaking and adding some stuff and even taking feedback and suggestions from the community. I am sure it's a headache in a way and can understand why the established companies like Stern might not want to get involved. But TNA has been a great pin to own and Scott being involved on Pinside has been nothing bit positive. No one attacks him or gets too worked up. I don't see how this would work with Stern if the programers are not willing to fix bugs for instance. It helps that TNA has a compact tight code.

I believe it's a mutual benefit for Scott/TNA where Scott can talk/discuss with the community and in return I'm sure Pinside is a major (major) sourse of sales for his pin. More than half of all TNA pins are listed in collections on Pinside not to mention there are likely more in our collections that are not listed because some people don't list.

Munsters isn't deep but is more so than mb and that seems to be selling well as is most b/w pins that bring a premium still . Not every pin needs crazy depth... one my favorites is bsd.

Dwight coded PotC and it's solid with good mix of easy and hard goals, good use of callouts and lighting etc..

I agree, deep and complex pins are great (TWD, Tspp, Woz, LotR, AcDc) but fairly simple rules like AFM, Tron, IM, TNA, CFTBL can be great too (etc.) Pins don't need to be super deep or complex to be great.

Stern POTC = start the easiest multiball, bring in the rest, repeat forever. And those godawful dribbles that have to be banged off the wall every. f'n. time. Bleh.

Gauntlet of the Pirates (which I thought was a mode done by KEF) is a “long way from the start button”

Just finished a 9 billion game of SW. All of you Dwight haters hate away. Dude knows how to make unique awesome code.

I don't hate but would be nice if he finished games code since Stern promised now for 18 months to finish GB.

I saw some of the munsters gameplay video, agree some cool features, he just has to get better at finishing & polishing some code, along with debugging. If he knuckled down after Munsters and did that they could get a few more sales and support, and people would also keep some of their games instead of loosing faith in Stern and selling them.

Pretty sure that is in sterns control, not Dwight's. If they said finish GB and here is your timeframe he would. You guys act like he decides what his time is spent on.

true, but he has been quoted saying the game is finished when it still has bugs and issues

anyway what will be will be

He is instructed to say that from Stern...any game out is code complete. This came from his mouth at CA Xtreme 2 years ago.

Here's the video of Gomez talking at this Expo 2018 about Ghostbusters code being delayed, starts right at that section.

Highlights

1. Waiting for break in coders schedule (Dwight, likely referring to Munsters code work)
2. Mentions insert that doesn't do as much as it should
3. Hint of mode on instruction card that could be more complete (more complete? Are You a God isn't even in the game)
4. Could use some polish and a few other things
5. Gomez made decision to put Dwight on new game and then maybe can put him on Ghostbusters update (MAYBE?!)

One of my favorite pins is Creature because of the theme integration and that certainly isn’t a deep game. But sometimes theme isn’t enough. I waited years for a fully restored MB that I used an NOS pf I had since 1998. The game was beyond stunning but lasted less than a year in my collection because it just didn’t do it for me, primarily because the code was relatively easy (to me) though I have other games from the same era I don’t feel that way about (SC, MM, NGG).

I agree that not every pin needs crazy depth. But the LCD generation of pins need to be deep enough for serious players on route and most collectors who buy NIB. Now that updating code on a machine is trivial and there are no significant memory constraints there is no reason to stop at simple, especially since a new game is $6k-$9k

We have have Dwight coming on the head2head podcast his week for a super long interview where we read out all 214 posts above and record his reaction.

did you ask him about your hate of flashers

Yes we talked about light shows.

We cover Munsters code in a decent amount of detail and what happens in level 2.
His design philosophies.
The state of the code in Star wars, Game of Thrones and of course Ghostbusters.

cool, should be a good listen

I did like what was aired at the Stern factory with the munsters gameplay and nice use of the screen to show progress

I am an early buyer of a GB LE and still have it despite ghosting, playfield swap and unfinished code. I am desperatly waiting for the code update since purchase now for years. i like the game a lot, but think regurlarly what the problem might be....

My perspective is that a new game development and sale has certain stages (time perspective) and team members (employee perspective). Which team members do you need? Lead programmer: responsible for the main code structure and code design based on the game design coming from from the game designer, creative department: ideally being players, no need for software coding skills at all, responsible for bringing fun, balancing, unique rule details into the game, coding department: coders without need for creativity, just code the software as agreed. In very simple words I would expect that matrix as follows:

1. Development until launch

Extreme involvment of lead programmer and coders. Time pressure to push software on a level that alllows the game to be played on a basic level. Additionally with GB was certainly that it was the last game with a DMD before the lauch of the LCD display, which created time pressure as well. Therefore I fully understand the basic code level at this stage.

2. code update after launch

Limited involvement of lead designer. Main duty of the creative department = players (not outside players). They have plenty of time, may colllect lots of ideas from social networks like pinside etc. See special Threads on software here on pinside. Based on these proposals alone I and 2 other pinheads could improve the code substantially within 4 weeks full time. Not including coding itself obviously.

After collecting ideas and creating proposals the creative team sits together with lead programmer and decide on what should be realized.

3. Coding team after launch

Responsible for bug fixes and progamming the result of step 2. No involvment of lead programmer and player team necessary.

Following such kind of process, the availabilty of the lead programmer is not so necessary as explained in the previous threads and the official announcements. My concern is that Stern does not follow such kind of process. The lead programmers seem to be responsible for everything, which creates the time problems. If so the missing separation of duties is the main problem. Stern seems to be old,fashioned from the perspective of an internal organization. Possibly the recognized this and reacted by hiring additional coders. And this reaction is part of the growing competition in the pinball producer market.

But then, please put the new staff on GB. This ismore than overdue.

No one is hating. C’mon man, stop appealing to your inner arguments.

Just talking about past track records and wondering where this title is headed, and rightfully so. If this was a Lyman pin discussions would be quite different. Star Wars looks fun, but not in my house collection fun. That’s the problem.

I’ve owned many Dwight coded pins, where are they now? RFM, POTC, HSII, LOTR. All gone. None missed.

Never gonna get better than decent working 9-5 and that’s it. Anything in life you have to fight for. I started out only a tech at my dealership, have put my time, heart and soul into it and now the owner and all the district managers looks to my input for customer service, retention, everything about service. Busiest, and dammit most empathic and fair service anyone will ever get on their vehicles. But I digress...

There were plenty of times designers and programmers went way above and beyond, including Gomez, Lawlor, Steve ‘the man’ Ritchie, Mark Ritchie, Lyman, Keefer, and others. Pinball history is filled with them. All made a permanent impact.
All they have to do is care enough.

Lol, maybe you just dont like his games. "Not in my house fun".

As for all the other nonsense you have no clue what Dwight's commitment to stern, each game, each day, etc is. Your just making up stuff.

I personally wouldn't own any of your 4 games. Not because they are bad games, but because they are not my style. That does not in turn mean the designers and coders of those games are lazy 9-5 hacks that will never make an impact on anything.

Man oh man, you just cannot help yourself. And you have no clue in titles. I’m joking, to each their own.

I’m making stuff up? I know what stays and what goes. If Dwight went above and beyond like you imply, either he’s just plain incompetent ( highly unlikely!)
Or he is a fan of shallow rules and done. ( I don’t know, I’m not his friend).

I’m not attacking the man, I’m questioning his shallow rule set and it’s long term replayability in a home collection.

Yours is set to private. What are YOU hiding?

Read post #220. He’s living it.

Have you played GOT or SW? Shallow rulesets?

You also have games like MET, ACDC, IM, etc rated as terrible games. So does Lyman suck because you dislike many of his games?

And yes, you are completely making up stuff when you take games that you dont like and then somehow flip that into Dwight's an non dedicated 9-5 bum that doesnt care. Or he does care and is just incompetent.

When have I apologized about anything stern does. If I dont like it, I dont buy it. What I dont care for is people personally attacking someone they do not know and have zero clue about. You and Underlord are both skilled at saying things like they are facts when you are just making up shit. Its irresponsible and reckless to make statements like that.

Cuz I’ve played them and didn’t care for them. Opinion. I’m trying to be nice here and you are continually insisting, twisting and trying to goad an argument. I’m not flipping Dwight or anything else, it’s comparing based on past games.

Please stop with the ‘making stuff up’ crap. YOU called him a hack and a bum. Seems your doing all the attacking. Did you buy a Munsters and are trying to defend the purchase? Cuz that’s what it seems like.

And again, your doing all kinds of research on me and I’m flattered by it, But show your collection or stop commenting about me.

There’s good in everyone. He’s been a Pinside member for 5 years, I respect him for that.

I refuse to go down a dark path and will fight it. I respect everyone’s opinions, even those that I disagree with, as there may be enlightenment in disagreement.

But do NOT twist anyone’s words and try to appeal to the lowest common denominator. It’s demeaning and provides no value.

Agreed mb got stale super quick for us also. Munsters is allready deeper than mb and has a level 2 so it sld b just fine imo especially set up steep and open outlanes like i do on all games.

Go back and read your own posts. Those are all things you insinuated. Now he makes shallow code even though that's not been the case on recent games.

You just dont like his style of coding which is fine. I'm not sure how you in turn relate that to him not caring. I do not like any Pat Lawyer games. They just are not for me. That doesn't take anything away from what hes made and others love his games.

I'm not buying a Munsters and I dont often jump in early on a game. If I decide to get one it will be a show game to save some money down the road. NIB pricing from all of the companies has gotten too rich for my tastes.

As for my collection, I have 17 games. Its private because I dont like the weekly pm's of someone randomly asking to buy something that isnt for sale.

I thank you for your response, you aren’t entitled to divulge your information.

That’s correct, I do not care for his style of coding. I never insinuated what you said, you stated those things in your responses. I played Star Wars and GOT on location. Both felt...they could be less random and repetitive ( or maybe I just suck as a player?). And I didn’t care for the design.

Listen man, in the end it’s all pinball. You have yours, I have mine. Opinions AND pins. All I ask is treat responses like real life conversations. None of us would ever talk to eachother like we do sometimes in real life.

You are 100% entitled to dislike everything Dwight has ever coded. Sometimes styles just dont match up. I completely get that as I feel the same way about other designers, coders, artists etc. We all have what we like and we like it for a reason.

I would encourage you to go back and read all of your posts in this thread and see if you would say that stuff to Lonnie, Dwight, etc's face. As you insinuated several times that neither really care.

Stern could explore the option of having a different software programmer finish after release, a different programmer than the original developer. I know that George Gomez said in the video that it is not doable, but it is doable, other companies do it, as I've stated my company has a separate sustaining group from the development group to do this after software release. (I have been in both that sustaining group and the development group as well so I have done it myself). Stern should try that out, if they have not already. Writing software is a tough job, and endless if a person is not meticulous and time efficient in general. Every process has room for improvement, waiting for the original programmer to get free to update a released game is not working well for Stern, and re-visiting old code is still a ramp up even for the original programmer. It does seem like they are listening though from George Gomez' video posted here. It is not a simple thing to fix, you need to have the right people on staff and if the sustaining model is not working they can always go back to what they have now.

I would bring those items up in a conversation if I could if I was considering buying a pin they were involved in, yes. I’ve never been called a wilting flower, that’s for sure.

Dwight: would you consider yourself an ‘ above and beyond’ employee of Stern like Mr. Sheats?

Lonnie: what were the details of TWD launch code and the circumstances surrounding your two-three week hiatus the same time the pin was selling and having others have to recode due to licensing? As it seems to collectors you don’t pursue future updates on previous titles.
Dwight: What are your opinions on GB and it’s untimely updates? Why is it Ritchie can fight for previous release updates ( ie ST) but others do not seem to get the same treatment.
Well, you get it.

My other posts seemed fine to me. There will always be passion there, we ARE a subculture after all.

I would say more hands in the pot makes for a terrible soup; but who would expect a programmer to just be ‘stuck’ with one title for months or longer after release? Stern is a business, but more than that to us.

Well I'd honestly pay to see that. It would make for an awkward time for sure. There would be a pile of nervous pinballers shuffling their feet and staring at the ground. I'll translate those into what each will hear.

Dwight I think Lyman works a lot harder then you and I question your dedication to the games you are lead on.

Lonnie, your personal leave time is my business and I'd like to know why you think you have the right to vacation.

Dwight GB is not finished. Why is it Ritchie can complain and make something happen but Treaduea cant get anything done with all of his free time. It's not like he has anything else to do in his cell.

Boy you’ve got a real hard on for me. Are we dating now? Should I bring flowers and candy?

Twist away Amigo, seems that’s your MO.

Yes, I’d say this to your face and theirs, but just, more polite. Like I said, I’m no wilting flower. You don’t ask you don’t get.

Moving on...

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I'll pass on the flowers, allergies. For candy I prefer sour patch kids.

Agreed. Love those. At least we will always have that...

RFM also had Lyman and Keefer on it, LOTR is a Dwight coded pin to not be missed?? Ha, Lord is considered perfect by a lot of folks, and pretty sure I see Keefer get the credit there.
But whatever, Stern is probly regretting ever trying to open communication with the SOTU, anything that slips is now just thrown in their face repeatedly, "They Promised it X months ago!!!!!!!!"
I actually think I preferred the silent treatment, watching pinside hope, rather than reading a bunch of crap about what we are PROMISED,..because they said xxx.
Perhaps the JT legal issues have delayed the code, just a thought.

This is no time to make nice

Serious shit at stake

I need you & jgentry to fight the good fight, this thread is losing steam

Lmfao.

To summarize:

- Less than 1 in 10 ppl who shell out 6+k for a nib machine will learn all the inserts on the pf and all the rules.
- We should stop debating about companies that sell incomplete products because so few fully understand the products.
- If you understand computer programming, you’ll be okay with a potentially indefinite wait for a complete product.
- If you’re unlucky and understand programming, rules etc., and you’re unhappy with the product, get rid of it.

Um, okay.
-

In my industry, complaints are called concerns. Huge difference.

My take is that stern has completely abandoned unfinished games, which is unacceptable. It is the company (Gary) not the programmers. That is why there is so much suspicion and speculation, deservedly so. They seem to be working to change this, but I still don’t trust them completely on all fronts of development and quality. For example, some of the animations on imdn are not finished: they are not colored or shaded and are not up to the quality of others presented in the game. I’m willing to bet that most of you who own the game are almost positive the animations will never see a minute of stern’s time. I only bought the game because I knew most of the code was done, but I also knew they (gary) would likely neglect other areas of the game. They are the industry leader, yet many wait and wait and wait in fear that their expensive purchase will never be the complete product they hoped for and paid for.

The title of this thread should be "Does Gary have a good track record of PAYING for complete code?”

Are you 2 done spitting on each others dicks yet?

We’re only dating right now. Don’t ruin the moment.

Dwight does a good job overall. GB will be finished this year. Stern has stepped by coding this year as we all know!!

Eh if you are upset IMDN doesnt have the proper shade or complete polish on all of the animations I'd recommend never buying a stern. That game is a freakin masterpiece code wise