(Topic ID: 233477)

Does Dwight have a good track record of 'finishing' code?


By Whysnow

9 months ago



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12
#151 9 months ago

I am reluctant to buy a DWIGHT game now after hearing the promises with constantly delaying ghostbusters for the last 18 months

most other designers have made some nice updates, dwight needs to do some fixups on GB especially if stern are saying they will unless it is just a plot to get sales from current games

I love the look of Munsters but not buying until people report that is really good rule / gameplay and when GB is fixed

#152 9 months ago

SW and GOT play great and were updated pretty quick.

#153 9 months ago
Quoted from swinks:

I am reluctant to buy a DWIGHT game now after hearing the promises with constantly delaying ghostbusters for the last 18 months
most other designers have made some nice updates, dwight needs to do some fixups on GB especially if stern are saying they will unless it is just a plot to get sales from current games
I love the look of Munsters but not buying until people report that is really good rule / gameplay and when GB is fixed

The more you know the better your pin choices. Munsters pf looks ‘safe’. But history shows long term staying power may be questionable.

When I bought Twdle the code was unfinished shit. Lonnie went on a three week vacation to France during launch, cuz reasons. Software was freelanced to a third party to finish. But borgs pf design was solid and I found myself hoping software would improve. Lyman stepped in and saved the strong design with even better code.

Dwight is no Lonnie Ropp. But he’s no Lyman Sheats either.

#154 9 months ago
Quoted from underlord:

The more you know the better your pin choices. Munsters pf looks ‘safe’. But history shows long term staying power may be questionable.
When I bought Twdle the code was unfinished shit. Lonnie went on a three week vacation to France during launch, cuz reasons. Software was freelanced to a third party to finish. But borgs pf design was solid and I found myself hoping software would improve. Lyman stepped in and saved the strong design with even better code.
Dwight is no Lonnie Ropp. But he’s no Lyman Sheats either.

was not aware of TWD, I suppose some programmers are more passionate and dedicated to program to the best of their ability and games potential

If dwight is not passionate enough maybe the understudies can step in and improve the game

#155 9 months ago
Quoted from swinks:

I love the look of Munsters but not buying until people report that is really good rule / gameplay and when GB is fixed

I have that attitude about every game. I don't care who designed it, coded it, drew the art, or sneezed on it. I have to play it first before even thinking about buying. Plus, it helps to wait to see if there is any design or qc issues. Maybe the clear flakes off, maybe the cabs split, maybe inserts ghost, etc.

#156 9 months ago
Quoted from swinks:

was not aware of TWD, I suppose some programmers are more passionate and dedicated to program to the best of their ability and games potential
If dwight is not passionate enough maybe the understudies can step in and improve the game

Understudies are usually not able to create an immersive pin. They can debug glaring issues but history shows that’s it.

Dwight may come through with Munster updates, but they will have to be spectacular to help that pf design.

Another fun fact: Steve Ritchie released Star Trek a few years ago and fought Stern on updates as they said it was good enough and Lyman was already on other projects. Steve and Lyman spent a lot of time on details and competition rules and Steve got ALL of his updates.

#157 9 months ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

I have that attitude about every game. I don't care who designed it, coded it, drew the art, or sneezed on it. I have to play it first before even thinking about buying. Plus, it helps to wait to see if there is any design or qc issues. Maybe the clear flakes off, maybe the cabs split, maybe inserts ghost, etc.

Agreed 1000% boss.

#158 9 months ago
Quoted from underlord:

The more you know the better your pin choices. Munsters pf looks ‘safe’. But history shows long term staying power may be questionable.
When I bought Twdle the code was unfinished shit. Lonnie went on a three week vacation to France during launch, cuz reasons. Software was freelanced to a third party to finish. But borgs pf design was solid and I found myself hoping software would improve. Lyman stepped in and saved the strong design with even better code.
Dwight is no Lonnie Ropp. But he’s no Lyman Sheats either.

Lyman was the lead on TWD. Not sure why you are blaming Lonnie for it.

Quoted from underlord:

Understudies are usually not able to create an immersive pin. They can debug glaring issues but history shows that’s it.
Dwight may come through with Munster updates, but they will have to be spectacular to help that pf design.
Another fun fact: Steve Ritchie released Star Trek a few years ago and fought Stern on updates as they said it was good enough and Lyman was already on other projects. Steve and Lyman spent a lot of time on details and competition rules and Steve got ALL of his updates.

Lonnie was the lead on ST and Dwight was hired later on and finished the programming.

Either you have some really behind the scenes info or you have your programmers mixed up.

#159 9 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Lyman was the lead on TWD. Not sure why you are blaming Lonnie for it.

Agree with you JG, I believe Lyman was on TWD from the start.

Quoted from jgentry:

Lonnie was the lead on ST and Dwight was hired later on and finished the programming.

Again agree this is exactly what was said multiple times. I think Dwight did a great job too, I love my STLE.

#160 9 months ago

TSPP is polished.

FGY is polished.

LOTR is polished.

Keefer is the man.

#161 9 months ago
Quoted from PW79:

TSPP is polished.
FGY is polished.
LOTR is polished.
Keefer is the man.

He’s clearly passionate about pinball and his career.

For Dwight, it might just be his job.

13
#162 9 months ago
Quoted from Allibaster:

He’s clearly passionate about pinball and his career.
For Dwight, it might just be his job.

You guys wonder why no one from the industry hardly uses pinside. Have you talked to Dwight at a show? Did you see him on the stream yesterday? You wont find someone much more passionate about it.

One of you is yelling about Lonnie getting vacation time and screwing up a game he didn't touch and now we are questioning their passion. Geeze.

#163 9 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Lyman was the lead on TWD. Not sure why you are blaming Lonnie for it.

Lonnie was the lead on ST and Dwight was hired later on and finished the programming.
Either you have some really behind the scenes info or you have your programmers mixed up.

Lonnie was lead on TWD. I had a friend who worked there back then and that’s why I knew it was coming. Lyman was pulled in to save it.

#164 9 months ago
Quoted from underlord:

Lonnie was lead on TWD. I had a friend who worked there back then and that’s why I knew it was coming. Lyman was pulled in to save it.

Everyone knew it was coming. It had been rumored for 6 months or more and Borg and Lyman were mentioned from the start. According to Lyman the reason for the launch code was because stern botched the license and they thought they had the voice licenses but didn't and he had to almost start over. At least that's what he pretty much said on Facebook if I remember correctly.

#165 9 months ago

I think it's more like "the better players make rules/games that better players like better"

Lyman, Keefer and now Keith Elwin games play out in ways that I enjoy.. good risk/reward for various shots, lots of ways (deep AND broad) to score, gameplay objectives that are easy to grasp but tough to master, exciting and challenging setup opportunities, and games that don't waste the player's time. Variety is great and I certainly enjoy playing games from all the other designers out there but man, those three know their shit.

#166 9 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Everyone knew it was coming. It had been rumored for 6 months or more and Borg and Lyman were mentioned from the start. According to Lyman the reason for the launch code was because stern botched the license and they thought they had the voice licenses but didn't and he had to almost start over. At least that's what he pretty much said on Facebook if I remember correctly.

That’s correct. 100%. Lyman had to rewrite over most of the rules and he had only a few months to do it.

#167 9 months ago
Quoted from underlord:

The more you know the better your pin choices. Munsters pf looks ‘safe’. But history shows long term staying power may be questionable.
When I bought Twdle the code was unfinished shit. Lonnie went on a three week vacation to France during launch, cuz reasons. Software was freelanced to a third party to finish. But borgs pf design was solid and I found myself hoping software would improve. Lyman stepped in and saved the strong design with even better code.
Dwight is no Lonnie Ropp. But he’s no Lyman Sheats either.

So why don't they just have Lyman take over and finish this thing and polish it even more.

#168 9 months ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

So why don't they just have Lyman take over and finish this thing and polish it even more.

Your talking about TWD?

#169 9 months ago
Quoted from underlord:

Your talking about TWD?

No ...GB

#170 9 months ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

So why don't they just have Lyman take over and finish this thing and polish it even more.

It doesn’t really work like that.

#171 9 months ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

It doesn’t really work like that.

It worked for Tron, TWD and BM66.

#172 9 months ago

Too bad it doesn't work that way

#173 9 months ago

It can be very difficult to jump into the middle of someone else's code, especially if that code is poorly commented / annotated. Plus you can easily break things if you aren't aware of all the dependencies that may be linked to whatever you might be changing. I mostly worked in SQL and it was years ago, but sometimes I still say a silent prayer for whoever the poor SOB was who might have had to try and make sense of the hacky bullshit I put live on our production servers. Half the time I wasn't even sure why it worked, just that the output was correct.

#175 9 months ago

I just think it’s hilarious that people are giving these guys so much crap. Being a coder is a job (vs. passion) especially if you’ve been doing it for 20+ years. How many of you can honestly say that you dedicate 24/7 of your life to your job???

The same kind of people that are questioning these guys’ work ethic because a game from 10 years ago still has a minor bug are probably 5 minutes late for their shift at GameStop every day.....

#176 9 months ago
Quoted from Jerryuop:

I just think it’s hilarious that people are giving these guys so much crap. Being a coder is a job (vs. passion) especially if you’ve been doing it for 20+ years. How many of you can honestly say that you dedicate 24/7 of your life to your job???
The same kind of people that are questioning these guys’ work ethic because a game from 10 years ago still has a minor bug are probably 5 minutes late for their shift at GameStop every day.....

Your minimizing our maximizing.

#177 9 months ago

Listening to Dwight on the Munsters stream last night it’s clear he is passionate about the game. However, it was also clear that one of his goals was to make the game simpler (a throwback). There seems to be a bit of scoring complexity and options, but it’s basically collect 5 characters and jackpots and repeat and is a game designed to be played without ball save (though there is a ball save in the code).

It certainly doesn’t appear the game will have the depth of TWD or BM66, but that doesn’t mean the game won’t be “finished”. To me it looks like it will be fine on location even at the current code level (whatever that is) and it was clear the code wasn’t done yet. I do question whether it will be deep enough to keep an average to above average player in a home environment interested long term.

#178 9 months ago
Quoted from metallik:

It worked for Tron, TWD and BM66.

Quoted from metallik:

It worked for Tron, TWD and BM66.


He was on those from the start,he didn’t take over BM66 from anyone else...

#179 9 months ago

Sort of

Tron he inherited from someone else and polished it up; TWD he inherited Stern's mistake WRT voice content, started over and still made a badass game; BM66 he inherited a crummy playfield/toys and made it fun regardless.

All IMHO of course

#180 9 months ago
Quoted from jfh:

Listening to Dwight on the Munsters stream last night it’s clear he is passionate about the game. However, it was also clear that one of his goals was to make the game simpler (a throwback). There seems to be a bit of scoring complexity and options, but it’s basically collect 5 characters and jackpots and repeat and is a game designed to be played without ball save (though there is a ball save in the code).
It certainly doesn’t appear the game will have the depth of TWD or BM66, but that doesn’t mean the game won’t be “finished”. To me it looks like it will be fine on location even at the current code level (whatever that is) and it was clear the code wasn’t done yet. I do question whether it will be deep enough to keep an average to above average player in a home environment interested long term.

I care much less about the depth or breadth of the code. This thread is about "finishing" code. i.e. having a plan for what the code is going to be and fulling immersing the player with a complete and polished product. Feature complete, innovative, light show, call outs, and music integrated in the full package, etc...

Lots of great games with very shallow code. For example TAF is arguably one of the best coded games of all time and it is very shallow (to the point that ANY player spending some time should be able to complete the wizard mode and see all that there is to see in a single game even). However, TAF is a well polished and complete game. The lights and sound effects and callouts all fall together almost perfectly in a choreographed way to put the player into the game. IN the modern era I know of only 2 games that have done this well; TNA and TWD. Those are completed, finished, and polished games.

I am super excited for the ruleset on MUN and assuming Dwight puts the saved time on depth into the "finish" of the code then this could be an epic game! He has a foundation of very novel and fun style of play that will cater to both the route noob and the home pro. The success will depend 100% on IF he finishes the game off. From his giddy like passion apparent on stream, I sure hope they provide him the time and expectation to do so.

I genuinely was curious what his MO is because up till now I dont think we have seen him really polish off a game to completeness. Then again, I dont think we have seen that same spark and passion for a game in his past 3. I wonder if his personality is meshing best with Borg? He is thus far not worked with Borg (GOT Ritchie, JT for GB, and SW Ritchie; and back in the early era it was Nordman on POTC, Gomez on Sopranos, ).

Please SETRN, give him the time and set the expectation for him to take this game to really immersive and polished. It will for sure help your long term sales in the future to show that Dwight is able to do so.

*then get him back on GB and GOT and SW to a lessor degree.

#181 9 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I care much less about the depth or breadth of the code. This thread is about "finishing" code. i.e. having a plan for what the code is going to be and fulling immersing the player with a complete and polished product. Feature complete, innovative, light show, call outs, and music integrated in the full package, etc...
Lots of great games with very shallow code. For example TAF is arguably one of the best coded games of all time and it is very shallow (to the point that ANY player spending some time should be able to complete the wizard mode and see all that there is to see in a single game even). However, TAF is a well polished and complete game. The lights and sound effects and callouts all fall together almost perfectly in a choreographed way to put the player into the game. IN the modern era I know of only 2 games that have done this well; TNA and TWD. Those are completed, finished, and polished games.
I am super excited for the ruleset on MUN and assuming Dwight puts the saved time on depth into the "finish" of the code then this could be an epic game! He has a foundation of very novel and fun style of play that will cater to both the route noob and the home pro. The success will depend 100% on IF he finishes the game off. From his giddy like passion apparent on stream, I sure hope they provide him the time and expectation to do so.
I genuinely was curious what his MO is because up till now I dont think we have seen him really polish off a game to completeness. Then again, I dont think we have seen that same spark and passion for a game in his past 3. I wonder if his personality is meshing best with Borg? He is thus far not worked with Borg (GOT Ritchie, JT for GB, and SW Ritchie; and back in the early era it was Nordman on POTC, Gomez on Sopranos, ).
Please SETRN, give him the time and set the expectation for him to take this game to really immersive and polished. It will for sure help your long term sales in the future to show that Dwight is able to do so.
*then get him back on GB and GOT and SW to a lessor degree.

You need to play some pinball if you think TWD and TNA are the only 2 complete modern games.

#182 9 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I care much less about the depth or breadth of the code. This thread is about "finishing" code. i.e. having a plan for what the code is going to be and fulling immersing the player with a complete and polished product. Feature complete, innovative, light show, call outs, and music integrated in the full package, etc...
Lots of great games with very shallow code. For example TAF is arguably one of the best coded games of all time and it is very shallow (to the point that ANY player spending some time should be able to complete the wizard mode and see all that there is to see in a single game even). However, TAF is a well polished and complete game. The lights and sound effects and callouts all fall together almost perfectly in a choreographed way to put the player into the game. IN the modern era I know of only 2 games that have done this well; TNA and TWD. Those are completed, finished, and polished games.
I am super excited for the ruleset on MUN and assuming Dwight puts the saved time on depth into the "finish" of the code then this could be an epic game! He has a foundation of very novel and fun style of play that will cater to both the route noob and the home pro. The success will depend 100% on IF he finishes the game off. From his giddy like passion apparent on stream, I sure hope they provide him the time and expectation to do so.
I genuinely was curious what his MO is because up till now I dont think we have seen him really polish off a game to completeness. Then again, I dont think we have seen that same spark and passion for a game in his past 3. I wonder if his personality is meshing best with Borg? He is thus far not worked with Borg (GOT Ritchie, JT for GB, and SW Ritchie; and back in the early era it was Nordman on POTC, Gomez on Sopranos, ).
Please SETRN, give him the time and set the expectation for him to take this game to really immersive and polished. It will for sure help your long term sales in the future to show that Dwight is able to do so.
*then get him back on GB and GOT and SW to a lessor degree.

Hilton, what do think of TNA? Music sounds great but looks repetitive?

#183 9 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

You guys wonder why no one from the industry hardly uses pinside. Have you talked to Dwight at a show? Did you see him on the stream yesterday? You wont find someone much more passionate about it.
One of you is yelling about Lonnie getting vacation time and screwing up a game he didn't touch and now we are questioning their passion. Geeze.

I know you weren’t directing your comment towards me but I just want to clarify my TSPP, FGY, LOTR Keefer comment was in reply more to those who say we don’t know what polish is.

So I guess my reply was mostly to Rosh rather than a slight at Dwight.

Polish is real, I know it when I see it & I usually buy games that have it

Shout out to TWD

AS is on the right path too

But... I won’t buy anything early again. I don’t trust Stern. They are rebuilding my consumer confidence but they aren’t at a point I trust them to finish a game in a timely manner.

#184 9 months ago
Quoted from PW79:

I know you weren’t directing your comment towards me but I just want to clarify my TSPP, FGY, LOTR Keefer comment was in reply more to those who say we don’t know what polish is.
So I guess my reply was mostly to Rosh rather than a slight at Dwight.
Polish is real, I know it when I see it & I usually buy games that have it
Shout out to TWD
AS is on the right path too
But... I won’t buy anything early again. I don’t trust Stern. They are rebuilding my consumer confidence but they aren’t at a point I trust them to finish a game in a timely manner.

Have you not been drinking? That was a lavishly worded paragraph of wonder, fact and joy. What happened to you man?

#185 9 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

You guys wonder why no one from the industry hardly uses pinside. Have you talked to Dwight at a show? Did you see him on the stream yesterday? You wont find someone much more passionate about it.
One of you is yelling about Lonnie getting vacation time and screwing up a game he didn't touch and now we are questioning their passion. Geeze.

I suppose I went too far assuming ‘no passion”. I don’t know the guy. He very well could be the first guy in/last guy out at Stern.

I’m just frustrated with Ghostbuster’s lack of support and Dwight’s comments on the game being done. It’s not done. It doesn’t even have the final mode completed yet! It was supposed to be updated after Star Wars over a year ago. Come on, Stern!

#186 9 months ago
Quoted from underlord:

Have you not been drinking? That was a lavishly worded paragraph of wonder, fact and joy. What happened to you man?

Space cakes

#187 9 months ago
Quoted from PW79:

TSPP is polished.
FGY is polished.
LOTR is polished.
Keefer is the man.

Don't forget WPT

#188 9 months ago

It's not that hard to understand.

Lyman is a GUARANTEE and I'll consider buying any pin he is doing the code on because HE is the main focus in my opinion. Assuming the theme doesn't totally blow.

I just finished a couple of hours on Beatles with mucho cerveza and on the other hand, its great, its shallow, its fun...etc.

But i knew that when i bought it.

As i just paid for a MunstersLE, it has the great ARTWORK, THEME and we will see about the CODE.

From what I've seen so far its at least GB worthy.

#189 9 months ago
Quoted from imharrow:

Throw out your rules card. Done. All references to are you a god are gone.

And Stern can use the "as designed" chestnut again.

#190 9 months ago
Quoted from underlord:

Hilton, what do think of TNA? Music sounds great but looks repetitive?

In short, i own 80 some gamesplus maintain 50 on route. I bought TNA #2 to put on route to support scott and spooky with the full intention of taking it home after 3 months. 16 months later that game is still killing it on route and i bought a second game #420 for home (and a partner bought one also, and his brother a fourth, lol) I have never done that before an it is a permenant game in the primary room which gets played every day. It is likely the best coded game of all time. A serious GOAT! I know the game play is not for everyone, but it is for me and a big part is that it is the most polished common era game period.

#191 9 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

In short, i own 80 some gamesplus maintain 50 on route. I bought TNA #2 to put on route to support scott and spooky with the full intention of taking it home after 3 months. 16 months later that game is still killing it on route and i bought a second game #420 for home (and a partner bought one also, and his brother a fourth, lol) I have never done that before an it is a permenant game in the primary room which gets played every day. It is likely the best coded game of all time. A serious GOAT! I know the game play is not for everyone, but it is for me and a big part is that it is the most polished common era game period.

Awesome! Is there a list of the 50 games you have on location and where they are?

#192 9 months ago
Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

Awesome! Is there a list of the 50 games you have on location and where they are?

Madisonpinball.com will give you basic information.

#193 9 months ago
Quoted from PW79:

TSPP is polished.
FGY is polished.
LOTR is polished.
Keefer is the man.

Wheel of Fortune is legendarily unfinished. Let's not get carried away. Everyone has a failure for various reasons.

#194 9 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Wheel of Fortune is legendarily unfinished. Let's not get carried away. Everyone has a failure for various reasons.

WOF remains unfinished because Stern/Keefer parted ways no?

I try not to go back/forth with folks here (anymore, I did in the past) but comparing a long gone employee to a current employee seems flawed IMO.

Heck, not sure we can even blame current employees either if the bossman tells em to work on other projects.

Also, I would not work for free.

#195 9 months ago
Quoted from FrankJ:

Madisonpinball.com will give you basic information.

My wife works for Fiserv and I check it out next time I follow her up on a trip. Thanks

#196 9 months ago
Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

My wife works for Fiserv and I check it out next time I follow her up on a trip. Thanks

cheers and thanks for the support.

we try to keep the website up to date with games and locations. It is often 95% correct. We move games around quite a bit and always have new stuff cycling in.

#197 9 months ago

I hope they implement "Are you a god?" As a video mode that asks are you a god? Click left for yes, right for no. Right ends game. Left gives you 100 points and flashes the Librarian insert as it counts up the points (just because). Then the game would be "complete" and everyone would be happy.

#198 9 months ago
Quoted from imharrow:

I hope they implement "Are you a god?" As a video mode that asks are you a god? Click left for yes, right for no. Right ends game. Left gives you 100 points and flashes the Librarian insert as it counts up the points (just because). Then the game would be "complete" and everyone would be happy.

Something that I think actually would be cool would be something simple, like Do or Die hurry up, maybe combined with the risk of a skins game, or cash fight. One hurry up shot to Gozer, double or nothing. Are you a god?

#199 9 months ago
Quoted from imharrow:

Something that I think actually would be cool would be something simple, like Do or Die hurry up, maybe combined with the risk of a skins game, or cash fight. One hurry up shot to Gozer, double or nothing. Are you a god?

There would be mostly 0 point games on the Are You a God leaderboard if that were the case. I hate shooting that shot in the Gozer mode. Make it the left ramp instead.

#200 9 months ago

to came back to the initial ask (and than let's admit more the GB code), i can understand lots of talks here, not only those who are complaining (i'm with them), but those trying to explain things (as Josh, simply because he's a coder and he knows what he's talking about)

surelly 95% (or even more) of GB owners are even not understanding what the other 5% is talking about...
i will call them "lambda" players (please, dont take this as negative of course)
they are simply playing pinball for just the fun of playing pinball (and its nice as it !), they have not noticed that one insert is never used, and with no surprise they will never reach the big wizard mode (on GB, but mostly on all their other pins), dont tell them about exploits or unbalanced scores...

now, for the 5% remaining, will call them "players" (and few have surelly some coding abilities), GB is with no doubt far from being complete or good as it, its missing more than a wizard mode

exposing this, may be the only question is : did STERN have time to spare for these 5% (or 4 3 2... 1%) !? i hope they have, but...

than, as lots have already said here above : if for you code is one of the most important point, than do not buy early (or stop complaining)
or if you even dont know what C++ is, than go for it, buy new pins, and enjoy

as a player (and knowing what i've said above), i did made the mistake with GB, buying it NIB when just out of the factory...
after having lots of talks in the GB topic, sharing with others more than few (good ? well i think so) code/gameplay ideas, and seeing nothing was coming, i simply sell the GB :/

i made the mistake once, i had my lesson...
after GB i than get TWD which was complete, and now same with DI, no bad surprise

...

a last word, i like when the guys involved in the pinball world are here to talk with us
Josh is sharing in the AP topics, and talking about DI, its nice to have Ted there
in the other way, i can understand not evbd want to be here, and/or may be they simply dont have the green flag from their companies !?

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