(Topic ID: 233477)

Does Dwight have a good track record of 'finishing' code?


By Whysnow

9 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 345 posts
  • 110 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 22 days ago by TKDalumni
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 9 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

codeupdate (resized).JPG
2vwgtd (resized).jpg
2vv4ug (resized).jpg
4C34C55B-DA4B-4E00-A022-051504FE73AB.gif
IMG_20190111_124930 (resized).jpg
BF0AC95E-64E9-47B2-AF18-0B1F20C2DA19 (resized).jpeg
wham (resized).JPG
cbe3f504aeb202be5c419ae15340e455cbdb8fef (resized).jpg
f7404ce53dfe0830088a72dfeb079a23a6752fbc (resized).jpg

There are 345 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 7.
#101 9 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Because sometimes it can feel more like:
Option A. Long slog to feel any kind of accomplishment
Option B. Fun game without a huge time commitment
I respect Keefer hugely, but his style of games don't appeal to me for instance, I'd just look at them and then walk over to something more basic because I didn't feel like trying for that epic 45 minute to an hour game.
The truth is that simple games can still have depth and fun if there are multiple was to approach them and enjoy them. I'm less worried about shallow vs depth than I am about multiple ways to play vs linear. I would never own a GB for instance, I strongly dislike the mode ladder system and hearing Who Brought The Dog over and over. Same reason why Capcom's Airborne is annoying, you have to play it the same way every time.
TNA is a good modern example of a simple game with return value, but a lot of the classic 90s BW hold their value for the same reason.

I get what you are saying Aurich.

But shouldn’t a HUO game be fun and have a long time commitment to explore everything?

TWD for example. Played it non stop until I beat it and it’s still a blast to play.

Take BM66, it’s DEEP and yet you can play it many different ways so it’s not a “slog” and doesn’t get old

That’s what makes a superbly coded game imo

#102 9 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I get what you are saying Aurich.
But shouldn’t a HUO game be fun and have a long time commitment to explore everything?
TWD for example. Played it non stop until I beat it and it’s still a blast to play.
Take BM66, it’s DEEP and yet you can play it many different ways so it’s not a “slog” and doesn’t get old
That’s what makes a superbly coded game imo

As a The Beatles owner you should get it. Not all games need to be like that. It's great that we actually have real variety in pinball. Do you always feel like playing those games or sometimes do you just want some simple fun.

#103 9 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

As a The Beatles owner you should get it. Not all games need to be like that. It's great that we actually have real variety in pinball. Do you always feel like playing those games or sometimes do you just want some simple fun.

I love the variety JG. That’s why I bought Beatles. Simple fun

Ok so not ALL games need to be super deep

10
#104 9 months ago

I guess Im Lucky...I Play only for fun, and I play pretty Bad.....I never get far enough to ever notice code missing, or bugs....seriously.

I know that as customers, we want perfect, flawless, fast, and cheap.

However, where I am now, My doctors cant give me that, the contractors restoring my house cant give perfection, nor can my Lawyers, accountants, Dogs, wife, or children.

I am the same I was at 11, just shit giggles happy to have a pinball machine in my home that works.....considering everything else, code would never
stop the fun.....

Just me.....

Thanks Dwight!

#105 9 months ago

watching stream now and code look pretty Fing awesome already on Munsters!

#106 9 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I love the variety JG. That’s why I bought Beatles. Simple fun
Ok so not ALL games need to be super deep

Exactly, that's why tna did so good, that's why MBr is selling great. They just need good code that matches the layout with good theme integration.

Variety is the spice of life.

#107 9 months ago

Code looks deep and Dwight is doing a fantastic job explaining this awsome pin!

#108 9 months ago
Quoted from frankmac:

Code looks deep and Dwight is doing a fantastic job explaining this awsome pin!

Yes, this is the type of design I enjoy. New players can just have fun with the obvious stuff (shoot the characters and enjoy Multiballs) and still have fun and "understand it", seasoned players can dig into the nuance for satisfying scoring strategies. Looks great to me!

#109 9 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Yes, this is the type of design I enjoy. New players can just have fun with the obvious stuff (shoot the characters and enjoy Multiballs) and still have fun and "understand it", seasoned players can dig into the nuance for satisfying scoring strategies. Looks great to me!

the ZAP 3rd level looks very cool!

-4
#110 9 months ago
Quoted from JustLikeMe:

No, he doesn't. In September 2017 he posted the following on the Tilt Forums re GB code:

'I want to be clear. I consider the game to be finished. I think that the game is fun and interesting as is. But there is always room for improvement.'

Dwight is a representative of stern. He was required to repeat the company line. Ghostbusters is finished. If it never get's another update that is ok. His boss told him, you don't get to implement Are you a god, go work on star wars.

With Dwight, if you like the game at launch, buy it and enjoy it. It is what it is. I know someone how bought a BM66 and hasn't unboxed it yet, because they are still upset about TWD launch code.

13
#111 9 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Because sometimes it can feel more like:
Option A. Long slog to feel any kind of accomplishment
Option B. Fun game without a huge time commitment
I respect Keefer hugely, but his style of games don't appeal to me for instance, I'd just look at them and then walk over to something more basic because I didn't feel like trying for that epic 45 minute to an hour game.
The truth is that simple games can still have depth and fun if there are multiple was to approach them and enjoy them. I'm less worried about shallow vs depth than I am about multiple ways to play vs linear. I would never own a GB for instance, I strongly dislike the mode ladder system and hearing Who Brought The Dog over and over. Same reason why Capcom's Airborne is annoying, you have to play it the same way every time.
TNA is a good modern example of a simple game with return value, but a lot of the classic 90s BW hold their value for the same reason.

Keith Johnson games contain multiple easier to obtain goals / modes that are rewarding to achieve as well as more difficult to reach modes. I believe Keith once described getting to Battle the Wicked Witch in WOZ and Destroy the Ring in LOTR as having a good game. Those two modes are perfect for a lot of players and offers a sense of accomplishment. Keith also said that modes like Somewhere over the Rainbow and Valinor are for a game of a lifetime. That's perfect for players that always want something to accomplish.

Personally I have no interest in spending $6k-$10k+ on games that have a simple ruleset, they just won't hold my attention for long. Deep and unique code offers value for a game, it's what brings a game to life if done properly. Overall I think Keith Johnson is offering the best objective based rulesets that follow a story.

#112 9 months ago
Quoted from imharrow:

I know someone how bought a BM66 and hasn't unboxed it yet, because they are still upset about TWD launch code.

Well they sure showed Stern! LOL

16
#113 9 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Keith Johnson games contain multiple easier to obtain goals / modes that are rewarding to achieve as well as more difficult to reach modes. I believe Keith once described getting to Battle the Wicked Witch in WOZ and Destroy the Ring in LOTR as having a good game. Those two modes are perfect for a lot of players and offers a sense of accomplishment. Keith also said that modes like Somewhere over the Rainbow and Valinor are for a game of a lifetime. That's perfect for players that always want something to accomplish.
Personally I have no interest in spending $6-$10k+ on games that have a simple ruleset, they just won't hold my attention for long. Deep and unique code offers value for a game, it's what brings a game to life if done properly. Overall I think Keith Johnson is offering the best objective based rulesets that follow a story.

I've never understood why some of you are so black and white on this stuff. Keith's games are great but I dont want to play them all the time. Stern games are great but I dont want to play them all the time. 1980 Bally's are great but I dont want to play them all the time. 1990's B/W are great but I dont want to play them all the time. So I own some of all of them and I seldom get bored. Cant you guys just enjoy pinball without always having a side?

#114 9 months ago
Quoted from rosh:

just that developer took the rules in a different direction then planned

That's not the way it usually comes off in my view, it usually makes me feel like "hey, we already have your $, so we are not in any rush to fix/finish anything". It leaves a bad taste in my mouth to be left feeling like I'm being put off to the back burner while their time is being spent on the next latest/greatest game instead of fulfilling their obligation to people who have already paid for something that is left unfinished. It makes me feel like it/me isn't important to them. I find the whole process of releasing unfinished games loathsome. I understand bugs and the need for fixes/revisions, but I would rather the game be complete before it was released. Then, that would actually give some incentive to get it done in a timely fashion instead of making people needlessly wait years for their game to be done. There is simply no valid reason in my eyes for it to take that long.

Since I bought my GB, I have refused to give any more $ until the code for that purchase has been addressed. So Stern has missed out on at least 3 NIB purchases from me. I am now more in the market for older games due to my annoyance and the lack of their importance of fulfilling their obligation to people who have paid them long ago for something that is still not done. I also don't understand the "pride" issue since I could never have much pride in anything that I know I put out unfinished (while knowing that it might be years before it was ever addressed...if ever).

#115 9 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I've never understood why some of you are so black and white on this stuff. Keith's games are great but I dont want to play them all the time. Stern games are great but I dont want to play them all the time. 1980 Bally's are great but I dont want to play them all the time. 1990's B/W are great but I dont want to play them all the time. So I own some of all of them and I seldom get bored. Cant you guys just enjoy pinball without always having a side?

I hear what you are saying, good points. I wasn't trying to pick side and think a lot of Stern's latest games offer very deep rulesets. 1980 Bally's are great (wish I had more room for some). I was referring to dropping $6k-$10k+ on NIB games with shallow rulesets.

#116 9 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I hear what you are saying, good points. I wasn't trying to pick side and think a lot of Stern's latest games offer very deep rulesets. 1980 Bally's are great (wish I had more room for some). I was referring to dropping $6k-$10k+ on NIB games with shallow rulesets.

I like Hobbit, Tron, and MB the most and they are very different

#117 9 months ago

I think it's weird that one designer owns the code from cradle to grave. Why not let someone else finish the code from the list of known issues? When building a house you have rough carpenters and finish carpenters. Why not let someone else dot the tees?

#118 9 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I was referring to dropping $6k-$10k+ on NIB games with shallow rulesets.

I spent $6k on my TNA, no regrets. I’ve been tempted by the AFM remake. The right game that’s fun doesn’t need insane depth.

But in general I hear you and agree. Pinball is crazy expensive and you want play time value for your money. If it’s “simple” that’s okay if it has replayability. That’s the sign of a good game, regardless of complication.

Replay is sort of nebulous, but a game with a “good soul” has it. I don’t hate on Sterns at all, but a lot of them for me are soul-less and not worth that money. Competent games, but lacking the spark to be worth it. That’s what I look for the most.

#119 9 months ago

Though irrelevant to the thread (whose title could have been worded in a classier way), I just want to say that the code on Houdini is A+ fantastic: 2 different types of modes (Film and Stage) that are all individually diverse, 2 different main multiballs (one easy and one hard to achieve), a separate goal for hurry ups (Jail escape), a separate goal for combos (Secret mission), 3 mini wizards and a main near-impossible-to-achieve wizard mode. Provides depth and variability, both for those seeking points and those that want the journey through modes.

#120 9 months ago
Quoted from rosh:

Early on I decided to not number Houdini releases that way, since people look at .9 and say, "oh it is 90% done". I just label releases based on the build date.
I've been asked how do I know it is 'finished', and my general take is, it will be finished either when I run out of ideas or I get sick and tired of working on it. Having said that, the release that included the final wizard mode marked the completion of the major things planned, but that milestone certainly did not represent me being done, but that it has the major components and features intended. The last release was a lot of bugs fixes and feature adds where I now feel the game is living up to the vision I had for it and has no major flaws (well one bug cropped up that I want to address). However, that does not mean that I won't do more.
Although I am currently knee deep in Oktoberfest, I continue to add ideas and thoughts to my Houdini list. Now that I have one at home, I see things I'm just not totally happy with it, maybe something that did not work as I had envisioned, or maybe something that is just off, and I will also get new ideas on how to give things more pizzaz or even ideas for new rules. And while many of these things will likely make it into the game, that does not mean that I consider the current iteration has being incomplete, although I am sure plenty of you would find things that you feel make it otherwise.
As far as what else is this thread, I find it much of it amusing since most of the people here have no clue as to what is involved, what is happening, the challenges that exist, what the developers goals were, etc. I love when you can read two posts back to back, that state the exact opposite things about a game, and both believing they are right and the developer is wrong, since they did not do what you think should be done. The word 'polish' has become some catch-all used when someone feels the game is not compete in their mind or just does not do what they thing it should. The reality is you can take any machine ever made, and if you want, you can find something you can say is 'incomplete' or 'needs more polish', ultimately that is the eye of the beholder. Sure, sometimes a game is clearly missing things, but that is far more often the exception than the rule, despite what reading pinside might make you think. I am sure there are plenty of times the developers would like to do a little more on some of their machines, tweak a few things, add a few things, but the reality is, none of that is really going to change what matters. If you don't like the way the game shoots, if you don't like the rules, than more 'polish' is not going to change that. Some games you are going to like and some you are not. Some rules you will find fun and challenging, and some won't be your cup of tea. If some missing light show or sound call is ruining the game for you, I suspect there more to it than that. The great thing is there are so many machines to choose from, that you will certainly find ones you like (or you need a new hobby).
For all you guys who think you know what a polished game looks like, I encourage you to try. There are now great resources and technology out there to let you do your own machine, so, rather then spending time on here dissing designers and developers, go try it for yourself. Maybe you will create the next great game or more likely you won't even get one close to being finished, let alone giving it 'polish'. But what is likely, is that you will gain a new appreciation for what designers and developers do, and why a thread with this title and some of this content, is insulting to those who work their assess off to bring these machines to life.

So are you telling us to go do programming ourselves? I thought that’s what we were paying for when buying a new pin. I think generally the pinside crowd is fairly patient as games continue to get software updates, but the delay on some pins is far too long. Pin prices continue to rise, and expectations along with them.

#121 9 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I spent $6k on my TNA, no regrets. I’ve been tempted by the AFM remake. The right game that’s fun doesn’t need insane depth.
But in general I hear you and agree. Pinball is crazy expensive and you want play time value for your money. If it’s “simple” that’s okay if it has replayability. That’s the sign of a good game, regardless of complication.
Replay is sort of nebulous, but a game with a “good soul” has it. I don’t hate of Sterns at all, but a lot of them for me are soul-less and not worth that money. Competent games, but lacking the spark to be worth it. That’s what I look for the most.

That's a great comparison, I know what you mean. I think all of JJP's games now have a "good soul" in my opinion as each contain deep as well as unique code that offers the player multiple paths and makes them work the playfield in interesting ways. Not all games need that level of code depth and do a great job with a smaller ruleset. If I had more room I would like to have a TNA in my collection.

Some Stern's offer a similar experience (Batman 66, Star Wars, Star Trek, TWD, etc) but like you said there's also those that seem soulless. Stern loves to code "super ramps", "super pops", "super spinners" etc type modes in many of their games that I think are incredibly boring, not unique (generic animations and sounds if any) and come across as filler modes. It's as if those types of modes are copied and pasted from one game to another. Hitting the same shot over and over again with the same animation and sound playing just isn't fun. Having to play 3 objective based modes to unlock a multiball or mini wizard mode is more fun and rewarding.

#122 9 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Some Stern's offer a similar experience (Batman 66, Star Wars, Star Trek, TWD, etc) but like you said there's also those that seem soulless. Stern loves to code "super ramps", "super pops", "super spinners" etc type modes in many of their games that I think are incredibly boring, not unique (generic animations and sounds if any) and come across as filler modes. It's as if those types of modes are copied and pasted from one game to another. Hitting the same shot over and over again with the same animation and sound playing just isn't fun. Having to play 3 objective based modes to unlock a multiball or mini wizard mode is more fun and rewarding.

In a few cases especially at launch stern has been lazy with the code copy and pasting. Those few games did eventually branch out and become very much their own though. I actually enjoy what you are calling filler modes. Stern uses them in conjunction with new ideas and code to give a throwback feel with a fresh approach a lot of times.

Do people really want to go on some mode based adventure every time we turn on a pinball machine? Isn't there room for all of the other styles of games and isn't it good that we have options? You clearly like JJP and especially Keith games the best, but there are a lot of people that are not into that. Pinball has likely never been so diverse which is great. For some reason pinside always wants to stack them up and prove to each other that one is superior to the other which is silly and impossible. People can count coils, lines of code, toys, etc, but not of it matters. The only thing that matters is if it's fun. I do not have anymore fun on my JJP games then I do Embyron. All of the prices now are stupid so the only thing I think about is will it be as fun as my other games to me.

#123 9 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

. The right game that’s fun doesn’t need insane depth.
But in general I hear you and agree. Pinball is crazy expensive and you want play time value for your money. If it’s “simple” that’s okay if it has replayability. That’s the sign of a good game, regardless of complication.
Replay is sort of nebulous, but a game with a “good soul” has it. I don’t hate of Sterns at all, but a lot of them for me are soul-less and not worth that money. Competent games, but lacking the spark to be worth it. That’s what I look for the most.

13
#124 9 months ago
Quoted from JoinTheCirqus:

So are you telling us to go do programming ourselves?

no, just saying there is a great opportunity now, that did not exist several years ago, to create your own. So, for those who think they can do better, that they can create a great layout or great set of rules, you can go for it. That is what I did, when I realized I could now do something I had dreamed about since being a kid. TNA would not exist if not for that, and in a likelihood Iron Maiden as well (which was originally the custom game Archer), nor would TBL. The options are many, whether expanding rules, like epthegeek did on CCC, or a game from scratch like TNA, NBX, Doom or a re-theme of an existing game, with all new rules like Buffy The Vampire Slayer or even just re-theming an EM, where it just about an art package (which was my first step in doing this). Doing any of these kind of things will give you a different perspective on things.

Quoted from Dr_Smith:

That's not the way it usually comes off in my view, it usually makes me feel like "hey, we already have your $, so we are not in any rush to fix/finish anything". It leaves a bad taste in my mouth to be left feeling like I'm being put off to the back burner while their time is being spent on the next latest/greatest game instead of fulfilling their obligation to people who have already paid for something that is left unfinished.

Some are trying to twist my words, the case I was referring to was AC/DC, where Lyman at one point explained inserts were not being used since the code went a different direction. We have seen more than one game get a major code refresh that took the game to new heights and in different direction. I think that it is better to do that (and possibly have an unused insert, that some find beyond appalling), then stick to a path that will result in a game not living up to its potential.

Games should absolutely get finished, and ideally a developer should be able to finish a game before being pulled in another direction. It is one of the reason we brought Joe "Ferret" Schober on board, so I could continue to spend some of my time on Houdini while we were bringing Oktoberfest to life. It is also great to have a partner who sees things a little different, and we are able to challenge each other to make things better.

Just because game does not sell one, does not mean it should not be finished. I think the changes in the marketplace are having the positive impact in changing that. The opposite is true as well, there is nothing wrong with a real selling game to get some updates to make it even better. I think when you look at the manufacturers today, some are forced to keep feeding the production line differently than others, which then forces them to move resources to feed the line. So for some companies putting out games a slower pace, the developers are able to get it to where they want and not cut corners and be able do things they had planned.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I hope you can step back and realize how ludicrous it is to have any insert on a playfield not coded into a game. If the coder has decided to go a different way then the obvious answer is that the company needs to figure out their cycle time better and ensure they actually have the basic code framework fully mapped BEFORE they release the damn game and before they build out 1000 blank playfields.

Quoted from Whysnow:

Sorry but to most of us, if a game comes out with an insert... it damn well better have some code associated with it, or we are going to rightfully see the game as unfinished (or in your case I guess just the cop out that things went in a different direction).

based on comments here and the dozen or so PMs I got since yesterday, not sure that 'most of us' find this 'ludicrous'. There is no way a company is going to go back and re-engineer a playfield, art, light loads, wiring harnesses because a programmer decided the rules would be better in a different way and there is an insert that no longer make sense. So the choice would become, stick to the original rules concept or have an insert not used, I'm betting far more here would prefer the latter, again AC/DC being the prime example. Of course the other option is to find some way to use it, that is not really a fit, but too make people happy that all the inserts are used.

Just to be clear, Houdini and Oktoberfest have no unused inserts. Regardless, calling it a cop out is silly. You are trying to stick to a position that makes little sense, as I believe the majority would rather have great rules and an unused insert, then mediocre ones where every insert has a purpose. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but seems AC/DC sold pretty darn well when there still inserts not being used. Obviously there are some here with extreme views on many of these things, and some might find it ludicrous, and that is their right, but I don't think they speak for the majority.

Quoted from Whysnow:

It will be interesting to see if you really do that the constructive feedback the community has given about your code. I think it could be a great game (I like the layout and think the them could be fun), but it will firmly reside on how well the code gets "polished" that decides the fate of your sophomore attempt.

If you followed along on Houdini you would know this has been the case. Recently had one of the top players in the world give a dozen different ideas and comments about Houdini. Some were ideas I thought were great and I implemented them, some where areas he felt scoring was too low relative to other game play, some were bugs, and some were ideas I felt were not a fit. Ferret and I every day debate things, give each other feedback on the parts of the game they are working on, brainstorm new ideas, in order to make the game as good as possible. We listen to all feedback, sometimes we will take action and sometimes we won't.

I'll move on now, since I have bunch of PMs to respond to, since just like I listen to feedback, I will respond to everyone who reaches out to be share ideas and thoughts.

#125 9 months ago
Quoted from rosh:

based on comments here and the dozen or so PMs I got since yesterday, not sure that 'most of us' find this 'ludicrous'. There is no way a company is going to go back and re-engineer a playfield, art, light loads, wiring harnesses because a programmer decided the rules would be better in a different way and there is an insert that no longer make sense. So the choice would become, stick to the original rules concept or have an insert not used, I'm betting far more here would prefer the latter, again AC/DC being the prime example. Of course the other option is to find some way to use it, that is not really a fit, but too make people happy that all the inserts are used.
Just to be clear, Houdini and Oktoberfest have no unused inserts. Regardless, calling it a cop out is silly. You are trying to stick to a position that makes little sense, as I believe the majority would rather have great rules and an unused insert, then mediocre ones where every insert has a purpose. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but seems AC/DC sold pretty darn well when there still inserts not being used. Obviously there are some here with extreme views on many of these things, and some might find it ludicrous, and that is their right, but I don't think they speak for the majority.

There is no excuse for leaving out an entire wizard mode that is spelled out as a main feature of the game, like in Ghostbusters. None.

-1
#126 9 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

There is no excuse for leaving out an entire wizard mode that is spelled out as a main feature of the game, like in Ghostbusters. None.

Throw out your rules card. Done. All references to are you a god are gone.

#127 9 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

But shouldn’t a HUO game be fun and have a long time commitment to explore everything?
o

Spoken like a man who has never owned a Stars.

There is almost zero correlation between how "deep" a game is and how much fun it is. I can marathon a great classic game for hours.

#128 9 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I've never understood why some of you are so black and white on this stuff. Keith's games are great but I dont want to play them all the time. Stern games are great but I dont want to play them all the time. 1980 Bally's are great but I dont want to play them all the time. 1990's B/W are great but I dont want to play them all the time. So I own some of all of them and I seldom get bored. Cant you guys just enjoy pinball without always having a side?

Spot on. I don't want every game to be the same and there is definitely an art in making a good pin. Just because a pin has deep code doesn't make it good nor does a shallow game mean it gets old fast. Every pin has it's flaws and everyone has their own preferences. Sometimes it's the dumbest things that make me enjoy a pin - a certain callout, a certain shot, a goofy theme, etc. We are lucky to have so much talent in the field and it's always exciting to see what they come up with. New pinball companies are starting up and everyone is stepping up their game. My biggest complain is not having the funds and space to grab all these great games.

#129 9 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I've never understood why some of you are so black and white on this stuff.

Amateur hour.

#130 9 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Spoken like a man who has never owned a Stars.
There is almost zero correlation between how "deep" a game is and how much fun it is. I can marathon a great classic game for hours.

I hit the roving special last night in my tournament, on complete accident (i.e. not aiming for it as it just came on), collected the 100k which doubled my score and issued the death blow to my opponent. Very rewarding experience.

#131 9 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

There is no excuse for leaving out an entire wizard mode that is spelled out as a main feature of the game, like in Ghostbusters. None.

I think that is something almost everyone, if not everyone, can agree on. I would hope and expect that it will get in there at some point, obviously a lot later than most think it should be.

Quoted from jawjaw:

Spot on. I don't want every game to be the same and there is definitely an art in making a good pin. Just because a pin has deep code doesn't make it good nor does a shallow game mean it gets old fast.

While I tend to believe a game geared towards the 'home' typically should have a deep and varied rule set, what really matters is that the game entertains, is fun to play and keeps you coming back for more. I have a few 70s and 80s game in my collection and some will never leave. They are not deep, but I love to play them and they never seem to get old. I don't always want to play a game that is going to being a long journey, sometimes I just want an adrenaline rush or not want to have to think to much, and just flip. I'd like to think that TNA and Beatles, will introduce a lot of guys to the joys of older style games, at the same time, part of me hopes it won't, since that will drive prices up.

#132 9 months ago
Quoted from imharrow:

Throw out your rules card. Done. All references to are you a god are gone.

Don't be silly.

We spent a lot of money on Ghostbusters and Stern set an expectation about what would be in the game. So far, they have not honored that expectation. I, honestly, don't think they will do any more code updates. It doesn't mean I have to like it or accept it.

#133 9 months ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

Don't be silly.
We spent a lot of money on Ghostbusters and Stern set an expectation about what would be in the game. So far, they have not honored that expectation. I, honestly, don't think they will do any more code updates. It doesn't mean I have to like it or accept it.

No you don’t have to, but you can stop buying nib until games are fleshed out.

#134 9 months ago

Stern should ship us the games at their cost and when they're done with the Code in 2 years i.e. GB, then we will then pay them in FULL!

#135 9 months ago

OR PAY them 1/2 now and then 1/2 when they finish

#136 9 months ago
Quoted from underlord:

No you don’t have to, but you can stop buying nib until games are fleshed out.

100% Agree. I bought it used, but your point is taken and I won't buy another NIB pin until the code is what I consider to be feature complete.

#137 9 months ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

100% Agree. I bought it used, but your point is taken and I won't buy another NIB pin until the code is what I consider to be feature complete.

Pinball collectors together: strong

#138 9 months ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

Stern should ship us the games at their cost and when they're done with the Code in 2 years i.e. GB, then we will then pay them in FULL!

You can actually do better than this right now -- don't buy the game until you're satisfied with the code, and you won't even have to put half down. If you buy HUO, the savings only increase!

#139 9 months ago

I TOTALLY agree with you...and that's actually what I've done

#140 9 months ago

I agree, will not buy another stern until game is complete.

#141 9 months ago
Quoted from mzhulk:

I agree, will not buy another stern until game is complete.

You guys act like this is just a stern problem. TH just recently got to a really good point, how long ago did it get announced? RZ just got an update to fix several major bugs that have been lingering for close to a year.

12
#142 9 months ago
Quoted from imharrow:

Throw out your rules card. Done. All references to are you a god are gone.

Technically it's in the audits too

IMG_20190111_124930 (resized).jpg
-8
#143 9 months ago
Quoted from TheArrrrrcade:

Technically it's in the audits too
[quoted image]

careful... Rosh will tell you that you just need to play better to see that mode.

remember, if code is incomplete are a game sucks then it is just because we are no good and not because the game has a flaw.

#144 9 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

remember, if code is incomplete are a game sucks then it is just because we are no good and not because the game has a flaw.

Well I know I probably will never make it there when it eventually is added. But if anyone asks, the answer is yes. I am a god.

#145 9 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

You guys act like this is just a stern problem. TH just recently got to a really good point, how long ago did it get announced? RZ just got an update to fix several major bugs that have been lingering for close to a year.

I was making my statement about buying NIB for all manufacturers.

I don't own a Hobbit, but what major feature was it missing until recently? I thought they reworked some things and added "polish." But, were modes completely missing?

13
#146 9 months ago

The fact that Hilton needs to remind us how “serious” and “honest” his concerns are every other post proves he’s absolutely not trolling. And I guess always trolling otherwise?

23
#147 9 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

careful... Rosh will tell you that you just need to play better to see that mode.
remember, if code is incomplete are a game sucks then it is just because we are no good and not because the game has a flaw.

Dude, stop with the vindictive bullshit already. Your thread started off good; now you're acting like a child.

#148 9 months ago

What I find funny is the “we” comments that lumps all us pinheads together as being passionate assholes, which, if you READ these threads, is proof positive evidence of the same.

I look at this historically, that is, the only time code got fixed in the old days was if there was a real bad bug, or a rule or code exploit that was causing ops to loose money... but today the ops only have to up free replay levels or adjust the boosts and so now code changes are pretty much not required by ops, they just raise the back legs, open the side drains, put the boost at something stupid and let us players on site flounder.

Deep or simple, We have way more fun now than we had in the 70’s... Try going from Ghost Busters to a Bally Air Aces and wrap your head around how f’ing simple those rules were, yet we had fun in the day flipping it. Still do when I play my brother’s AA.

#149 9 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

What I find funny is the “we” comments that lumps all us pinheads together as being passionate assholes, which, if you READ these threads, is proof positive evidence of the same.
I look at this historically, that is, the only time code got fixed in the old days was if there was a real bad bug, or a rule or code exploit that was causing ops to loose money... but today the ops only have to up free replay levels or adjust the boosts and so now code changes are pretty much not required by ops, they just raise the back legs, open the side drains, put the boost at something stupid and let us players on site flounder.
Deep or simple, We have way more fun now than we had in the 70’s... Try going from Ghost Busters to a Bally Air Aces and wrap your head around how f’ing simple those rules were, yet we had fun in the day flipping it. Still do when I play my brother’s AA.

Passionate assholes together: strong.

#150 9 months ago
Quoted from TheArrrrrcade:

Technically it's in the audits too
[quoted image]

Well damn lol. The wait for Ghostbusters code is ridiculous at this point.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 28.00
Playfield - Other
Pin Monk
There are 345 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 7.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside