Quoted from underlord:
I’m just teasing you, but you need to understand we do KNOW deep rules and just plain polish when we play that.
We, as a hobby are very passionate about our collections and no one wants to feel strung along, regardless of how tough programming can be.
I get you are teasing. I just think guys get way too focused on little things that don't really matter and let that stand in the way of enjoying a game or worse, let it get in the way of others enjoying it. I agree games should be complete and if a company says there is more to come, then they need to deliver on that. No game should leave an owner feeling it is incomplete. But getting hung up on insert that does not get used in game play or that the light shows are not wow enough, just seems to go a little too far. There is little doubt that Stern left some games feeling incomplete and certainly seems they have tried to correct that, but seems some of this stuff is beyond that, and again, a thread with a title this this is inappropriate, imho.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion on a game and if they want to say they think it needs more 'polish' that is their right to say so, but seems some guys take that too far and turn into something else, and that is what I object to. Just too much nitpicking at time, its pinball for crying out loud, some of these guys need to step back and just enjoy wonderful renaissance we are enjoying. Time is a constrained resource. Designers. developers, artist, animators, composers, etc. due as much as they can to make the best game they can with the time and other resources provided, and within the constraints that are given to them. Seems some guys here lose sight of that, when they look for some thing to pick at. I guess that is why most people in the industry don't spend time here. I was a collector before I was started working in this industry two years ago. I like to try to bring some of what goes on besides the scenes here since I know I enjoyed that. I also like getting feedback and idea, plenty of Houdini owners can point to things they suggested that made it into the game, but there are certainly times when I get why so many don't spend time here.
Hilton has not liked Houdini or AP from day one (and guessing me either for that matter). He seems to seek out opportunities to criticize us. I get that he does not like Houdini, he finds the shots are too tight and challenging, and seems to have never had a good game on it. He is certainly entitled to that opinion, but seems he looks to find reasons to rip on it to somehow justify his feeling about it. That is also his right, but I don't get why he has that need and what void he is trying to fill.
As many of you know I listen to feedback, whether positive or negative, sometimes I agree with it and will take action and sometimes I don't, but I will certainly listen. Some people people love Houdini and some don't, pretty much like every game. There are many folks on Pinside or who I know outside of it, who's opinions I respect, and that has not changed based on whether they like Houdini or not. However, some folks like to be bombastic and over the top, just to get attention or maybe they believe that their opinions are so great, that they need to be shared at every opportunity, and that all of the rest of us would be lesser for not having heard them, when in reality it is the opposite. These are folks whose opinions carry zero weight with me, whether about Houdini or anything else.
It is always easier to tear things down, then to build them -- which is also the case when doing a playfield swap .
Quoted from paul_8788:
I have nothing but respect for the designers and coders, I am sure they put in tons of time and have lots of passion for their products. On the flipside as a consumer, buying a product for several thousand dollars, and knowing there are bugs in it that you hit consistently, and waiting years for those to be fixed (if ever) isn't something that should be okay because it is pinball and the guys doing it had a ton of passion along the way.
And while I personally have never written code for a pin I have lots of experience dealing with customers using products I have created. While "try and do it yourselves" has gone through my mind while listening to them complain about something, it isn't what I would say to people who pay the bills.
I agree, bugs that are hit consistently and cause issue need to be fixed and I don't think Dwight or anyone else does not want to fix those. I have not met anyone in the industry who does not take pride in what they do, and want it to be as good as it can be (given the constraints, resources, etc.)
My point was there is great opportunity for folks to make their own games and doing so will give you far greater insight into what is involved and what goes on and will give them a new appreciation for what is in front of them. Talk to any custom game builder and they will tell you how it was far more difficult and involved then they had imagined. And I can tell you from personal experience going from custom to commercial, takes it up another notch.