(Topic ID: 236793)

Does beating the Wizard Mode kill a game for you?


By sethi_i

7 months ago



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“Does beating the Wizard Mode kill a game for you?”

  • Seeing the Wizard Mode means sell 23 votes
    16%
  • It doesn't change a thing 69 votes
    48%
  • When I get to one, then I'll decide 53 votes
    37%

(145 votes by 144 Pinsiders)

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#1 7 months ago

I finished GotG SX for the fifth or sixth time. Those games were amazing, but they are obviously very rare. Friends asked if that means I'm going to dump it for something else. No Way! I still love playing it. As long as it's still fun, I'm going to keep it! Most of my games don't even get to CB multiball.

Once you've beaten a game, is the luster gone (or maybe just tarnished)? Does "finishing" a wizard mode even factor into your sell decision?

#2 7 months ago

I think to a certain degree some of the luster is lost. But since it is such a rare occurrence ( on my games anyway) it tends to always be somewhat special. Plus there is always a high score to chase!

#3 7 months ago
Quoted from Apex:

Plus there is always a high score to chase!

Exactly. This latest completion barely cracked 4B. My best finish doubled that.

#4 7 months ago

Beating a wizard mode does not kill a game for me. As a tournament player I like to just play the game for points try out different strategies and enjoy the game.

#5 7 months ago

It doesn't for me, unless it becomes a very frequent occurrence. I've gotten to Valinor on LOTR, but only once. The X-Men and Ghostbusters wizard modes are challenging to get to as well, so they both keep me coming back for more. On my Ripley's I've gotten Atlantis a few times now, but it still isn't easy and Atlantis itself is hard to do well in too, which makes it even better. Plus I've still only gotten Frog Frenzy once ever. My sell decisions are based on how much the game is still challenging me, how much I like an overall game and of course how badly I want a different game instead.

#6 7 months ago

It depends on the game. I think getting beat down over time trying to get to s final wizard mode and then know you’ll NEVER get there, is worse.

#7 7 months ago

Wait!! What?? The pinball machines have wizard modes??? Just kidding...

My only machine is the No Fear and it is not so hard to get the "Meet your maker". It don't get old for me at all.

For virtual pinball, on other side, when I beat a table usually it means I will not play it for a long time.

This happens probably because each virtual table is affordable and I can buy or download a new one to play.
If the money won't be a problem this could happen to the real machines also...

#8 7 months ago

I’ll let you know when I do

#9 7 months ago

It doesn’t for me unless I can get it everytine I play a machine which almost never happens.

#10 7 months ago

For the most part yes, in a long game that might take an hour plus to achieve once I get to wizard or beat it its just a matter of time, a short amount of time but some games, especially older games like TS, DM and JM I didn't mind getting to the end and doing it over and over still its on its way out after that. Thing is lets say LOTR's. I completed that final wizard in just shy of 2hours and sold almost immediately but I'm ready for the challenge again so like video games after a grace period (couple years) its fun to go back in.

#11 7 months ago

It depends. If getting to a games wizard mode is a regular occurence I would say yes.

Keith Jonhson mentioned on a podcast a year or so ago that he looks at mini wizards modes such as Destroy the Ring and Battle the Wicked Witch as having a great game. Super wizard modes like Valinor and Somewhere over the Rainbow are then modes for a game of a lifetime.

At today's NIB prices a game has to have a mini wizard mode, ideally 2 or more, and a super wizard mode for me to pull the buy trigger. Oops, just realized I'm still waiting on Are you a God to be coded for Ghostbusters lol.

#12 7 months ago

If the game is fun all around, I’ll keep it. The difficulty of reaching/beating the Wizard mode is not the deciding factor.

In addition to some of the well known “deep games” I still own games like TAF, AFM for example because I enjoy them; the wizard modes are certainly not considered difficult. Many people reach those wizard mode multiple times in a game.

There is this increasing emphasis on deep code as is if that correlates to more fun. I think a lot of the games have objectives that are absurdly repetitive, or hard for the sake of being hard. Sadly, the journey is usually not rewarding-how often do we see the phrase “wood chopping.”

To make it worse, after chopping a forest, and without naming games (and starting a game/coder debate), I’ve reached a few wizard modes and said, “that’s it?” Now to be clear, it’s obvious that most design should focus on front end candy. But my point is the reward is often not commensurate with the effort to get there and the journey not that fun.

At first I am usually focused on reaching “the goal”. After a while I can gauge if it’s reachable with my skill set. Then I start more critically looking at the other basic features.

The best games are ones where you finish and tell yourself “wow, so close, I gotta try that again”

#13 7 months ago

Wizard modes are like albino animals. People say they exist. I believe they are real. But I’ve never seen one.

I’ll go back to practicing now.

#14 7 months ago

Sometimes I find that the game loses much of its interest once I've "seen it all". PotC was gone within a week of getting to the wizard mode. GoT lasted a bit longer.

#15 7 months ago

Ive only beaten Wizard Modes on 2 games in 46 years...boy, do I suck!

One that killed me, is I had a dream game STTNG come in, and the person that delivered it said,
"let me show you how to play this" In a short period of time with the glass off, he showed me all modes, and finale...I never liked the game after that.

Discovery of modes is the joy I get....I wont watch a video of someone else at all achieving this.

#16 7 months ago

Man, you guys gotta stop thinking about pins like they are video games. There's always replay value in terms of strategy and high scores. The "Ball is wild" and no game is ever exactly the same.

#17 7 months ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Ive only beaten Wizard Modes on 2 games in 46 years...boy, do I suck!
One that killed me, is I had a dream game STTNG come in, and the person that delivered it said,
"let me show you how to play this" In a short period of time with the glass off, he showed me all modes, and finale...I never liked the game after that.
Discovery of modes is the joy I get....I wont watch a video of someone else at all achieving this.

I know exactly how you feel.
Same for me. Got that feeling after watching a very complete run down of
Star Trek(pro) gameplay.
Seemed to loose something for me after that.
Same goes for me achieving any wizard mode.
A little less luster for any machine. Does not "kill" the game outright though.

#18 7 months ago

If it’s the first time I’ve played the game, pretty much yeah.

#19 7 months ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

In a short period of time with the glass off, he showed me all modes, and finale...I never liked the game after that.

For me STTNG is like watching Seinfeld-it never gets old

#20 7 months ago

LITZ will never get old for me.

#21 7 months ago

some games wizard modes are boring and easy to get. some are boring and hard to get. some are easy to get and really fun. my favorite wizard mode it MB. i can get it 3 times in a game and it never fails to put a smile on my face. the music, call outs, light show, everything. that wizard mode i will always love.

#22 7 months ago

Sometimes.

When I finally got the SJ of 100 million of FT I was ready to sell.

But, after a few weeks of not playing it, couldn't wait to do it again!

And now I want the 200 million SJ and then the 300 million

When I finished TAF - tour the mansion - I was done with the game.

#23 7 months ago

Nope.
Do it again with a better score, do it twice in one game.

#24 7 months ago

It depends on the frequency. Any modern Stern....No

All of the Bally/Williams titles- Yes I got rid of all of the BW titles except IJ because they started to get a bit too easy. Its a shame, because they have a lot more charm than the Stern titles do, but they don't get played at all.

#25 7 months ago

Nope for me. A wizard mode is just a mode, it's not some magical marker of beating a game. Touring the mansion in TAF was always fun and then it became the challenge of how many points I could get in the mode, the number of times one could do it in a game or getting there more often. Now for a lot of games if you are getting to the Wizard modes a lot it means you pretty much got all the shots down and are having super long games -- that I can see as a factor in getting rid of a game. The whole, I've seen all the game thing, kind of confuses me. I hate to break it to people but if the only thing you haven't seen in LOTR is Valinor you've actually seen 99.9999 percent of the game already. Same with most games with an ultimate wizard mode. I mean another multiball is great and everything . . .

#26 7 months ago

I suppose it depends, if it becomes routine then maybe but it also depends on the game...I, like most can make it to the end of Scared Stiff quite often but love the game and will keep it in my collection.

#27 7 months ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Ive only beaten Wizard Modes on 2 games in 46 years...boy, do I suck!
One that killed me, is I had a dream game STTNG come in, and the person that delivered it said,
"let me show you how to play this" In a short period of time with the glass off, he showed me all modes, and finale...I never liked the game after that.
Discovery of modes is the joy I get....I wont watch a video of someone else at all achieving this.

It's cool how everyone plays pinball for a different reason. For me pinball is more of a skill based game -- just because I've seen someone hit a cool shot in pool, or a huge drive in golf doesn't mean I'm not going to get a big thrill of accomplishing the goal myself or even enjoy doing it multiple times. Same thing with achieving a mode in pinball. The light show and the DMD/LCD screen stuff is all just a nice bonus to heighten the mood. The main feeling of joy comes from actually doing it myself, or more accurately, the hypothetical possibility of maybe doing it myself someday (it could happen, right?).

#28 7 months ago

It definitely does depend on the game - games which have a real deep wizard mode, sometimes I *immediately* feel like "I'm done with this game" as soon as I get to, or (way more rarely) beat the big wizard mode. I only have room for 5 or 6 games, so it's actually beneficial to feel like I'm done with the game. Right now, I'm stuck with 6 games I never want to get rid of (TZ, MB, DW, Houdini, TH, WOZ), so I'm not sure what will happen there... I really want a POTO as well but no space for it.

Sometimes I get there though and it's a great rush - like MB which has Monsters of Rock, but since that is quite easy to get to, I don't feel like "oh man I never want to to go through that slog again..."

#29 7 months ago

Depends on the game, but usually yes.

I was close to buying a GotG, but got to borrow one from a friend for a week - having completed SX half a dozen times I was glad to see the back of it.

AS I've got on long term loan from another friend - again having completed Final Tour a number of times, if it was mine it'd be out the door. Others that have suffered the same fate have been LotR, TSPP, GoT, SM, BDK, BBH, pretty much all Bally/Williams machines.

However others, I still just want to carry on playing over and over - AcDc, TWD - because they're fun, and it isn't just about getting to the wizard mode.

One thing is guaranteed - I won't get rid of a game until I've reached wizard mode or accepted I'm never going to get there, PotC falling into the latter category - WPT & IMdn falling into the former.

#30 7 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Nope.
Do it again with a better score, do it twice in one game.

True, but I'll bet Munsters starts to get flipped fast. There's a line between "discovery" and "shallow."

If you play alone a lot at home, points just aren't as much fun as discovery.

#31 7 months ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

True, but I'll bet Munsters starts to get flipped fast. There's a line between "discovery" and "shallow."
If you play alone a lot at home, points just aren't as much fun as discovery.

Yeah, it's a bummer that level 2 and level 3 Munster character modes and the wizard mode all play very similar to the level 1 modes based on reports I've read. Having to repeat the same mode again with less time or more shots isn't fun and it hurts the value of the game in my opinion.

#32 7 months ago

Not really as long as it's not too easy. A fun game is a fun game. I find it more frustrating when a wizard mode is practically impossible to get to than one that is doable. That's when games get old for me - when it's just so much work and a chore to plow through the game to get to a wizard mode.

#33 7 months ago

being not a great player, I’ve only reached a couple wizard modes on a handful of games. Could be years before I do it again. So doesn’t bother me at all.

#34 7 months ago

I never understood why beating a wizard mode would kill the game for someone, if playing the machine is fun to them why wouldn't reaching the ultimate goal of that machine be even more fun? So wouldn't the act of playing the same game over and over to get to the wizard mode be boring and old since they have done it before? A lot of the time the wizard modes them selves are exciting and enjoyable such as getting to the world cup or LITZ.

#35 7 months ago
Quoted from TheRookie:

I never understood why beating a wizard mode would kill the game for someone, if playing the machine is fun to them why wouldn't reaching the ultimate goal of that machine be even more fun? So wouldn't the act of playing the same game over and over to get to the wizard mode be boring and old since they have done it before? A lot of the time the wizard modes them selves are exciting and enjoyable such as getting to the world cup or LITZ.

Depends on why you are playing. If it is purely for points, then it doesn't matter. In a home environment though, a lot of times those games are single player games, and sometimes you are playing for the journey and not the score. Two of my favorite games are CV and Whitewater. I was joining the Cirqus almost every other game (sometimes twice in a game), and absolutely crushing Whitewater on a regular/gamely basis. I miss both of them until I play them somewhere else, and am reminded why I don't own them anymore. It isn't that they aren't fun games, its just they take up space for games that I haven't taken the journey with yet.

#36 7 months ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

True, but I'll bet Munsters starts to get flipped fast. There's a line between "discovery" and "shallow."
If you play alone a lot at home, points just aren't as much fun as discovery.

A good points about points at home, frankly, it's kind of one of the weakness of owning pinball machines at home in general is that you're really only competing against yourself for high scores. It's one of the few things that digital pinball does better, it can be an extra reason to keep trying playing, to creep up the leader board or to crack the top 100. My brother and I would sometimes pick a random pinball arcade table and say the high score after seven days wins. I got a lot of enjoyment out of some pretty mediocre tables doing this.

That's why I think internet linked high scores are going to be so cool. Sure there will be cheaters and no two tables play a like, but who cares as long as 90% aren't cheating -- it's still something to aim for. Also, having a pinside friends list for high scores would eliminate a lot of the BS. Again, it's not the same as competing head to head on the same machine, but still seems like a major reason to keep playing a table longer.

#37 7 months ago

Unfortunately i have to say yes.. Chasing points just doesn't excite me in the same way that getting to / beating a wizard mode does. Not to say that i will get rid of a pin in every case just because i beat the wizard mode, but it will get significantly less play than a pin in the collection that i have yet to beat.

#38 7 months ago
Quoted from iloveplywood:

Touring the mansion in TAF was always fun and then it became the challenge of how many points I could get in the mode

I always loved this one, but only if I did it with the intent of playing all of the rooms for max points. Touring the Mansion by just lighting and re-lighting the chair seemed like a hollow victory.

Quoted from WJxxxx:

I was close to buying a GotG, but got to borrow one from a friend for a week - having completed SX half a dozen times I was glad to see the back of it.

If I were hitting SX half a dozen times per week, it would definitely be gone for a new challenge. This was the fifth or sixth time in 11 months!!

Quoted from Guinnesstime:

If you play alone a lot at home, points just aren't as much fun as discovery.

Even when my friends are playing, it's never about points. They are drinking and banging the ball around. When I try to explain anything, it just ruins their fun. I told one to aim for the scoop. Her response...."how do you aim on a pinball machine?" It wasn't said as a question so much as it was a statement!!

#39 7 months ago
Quoted from TheRookie:

I never understood why beating a wizard mode would kill the game for someone, if playing the machine is fun to them why wouldn't reaching the ultimate goal of that machine be even more fun? So wouldn't the act of playing the same game over and over to get to the wizard mode be boring and old since they have done it before? A lot of the time the wizard modes them selves are exciting and enjoyable such as getting to the world cup or LITZ.

Some games aren't really about the points - take The Hobbit - that game is almost exclusively about getting through the "story" of the game. It's part of what makes it such an interesting machine.

Dialed In, which is the most "video game-y" of all recent pins IMO has a good mix of both. Points are fairly well balanced and there's still a semi-story and the "boss modes", and the Showdown mode really ups the ante. That can be so intense I dont' want to play the game for a week or two

#40 7 months ago
Quoted from pinmister:

For me STTNG is like watching Seinfeld-it never gets old

Me too. I think partially because it never really ends. The Final Frontier is just a mode where you can score a huge load of points but it feels so satisfying just to get there. It's the journey that counts in this game. Bringing in a billion or two from collecting artifacts is what makes the challenge.

#41 7 months ago

striving for the ending is the reason I play games. Once it's achieved i'm not as determined to play it anymore. But if I get to the ending and it's over before it really starts. Then i'm still on board as I really didn't get to see much of the ending to enjoy it. Which has happened to me before. I hope LOTR's ending is long and drawn out, since it's been 9 years and I still havn't been there. But it will happen eventually.

#42 7 months ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Once it's achieved i'm not as determined to play it anymore.

But collection size has to play a part as well. Having a collection the size of yours offers a lot more flexibility, I would imagine. If you "beat" a game, you could just ignore it for while and go back to it at a later time.

#43 7 months ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

True, but I'll bet Munsters starts to get flipped fast. There's a line between "discovery" and "shallow."
.

Haven't played it so can't tell...although I'm not really going to complain aboot the code of a game this early, you'd think people would learn at some point.
But hey, some games are made to be done multiple times....and some none at all.

#44 7 months ago

I usually take a break from playing the pin, let my fat ego-filled head shrink a bit, then back to it!

#45 7 months ago

What's "wizard mode"? Is it on my Bride Of Pinbot?

#46 7 months ago

Wizard modes are safe from me , however if I did reach it , it would make me want to play well enough to get there again and rack the score up even more !

#47 7 months ago

Was Black Knight 2000 the pin with the first wizard mode?

#48 7 months ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

Was Black Knight 2000 the pin with the first wizard mode?

That's what some say...I still kick rocks and think WW might be close enough for me.

#49 7 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

That's what some say...I still kick rocks and think WW might be close enough for me.

Whirlwind was a year later. I really need to get one, price keeps going up on it. Is the Super Cellar just an award then you start over again?

#50 7 months ago

My first Wizard Mode experience was on White Water. I got Vacation and the machine goes black.... Oh shit I broke it.... Then everything comes on and starts going berserk.... I jumped back almost fell down trying to get away from this possessed machine thinking Holy Shit! WTF! One of the best pinball experiences of my life!

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