gleason (resized).jpg

Hey I know Jerry, and he has always been a fair person, he is meticulous at having things on the games he restores better than perfect, and refuses to use second grade parts. Also he's been burned from sellers on ebay as well as you, so I'm surprised he wasn't willing to work with you...unless you came out looking for a fight.
That being said, I'm quite surprised he would even sale a board like that, it's junk, unless someone thought it might be good for parts.

Popcorn (resized).jpg

Yikes...Over twenty bucks for shipping, too!

It may very well be junk, but he posted clear, high resolution photos that clearly show the corrosion. That you failed to properly examine the photos and then had buyers remorse on an unreturnable item isn't the fault of the seller. Then you come here, and everyone tells you that you need to own your mistake, and you continue to push this narrative that he's somehow lying without showing any evidence of it. Do you have any reason to believe that the board he shipped you is different than the board in the pictures? If not, suck it up and move on... no returns means no returns. You gambled on what you thought was a deal (again, after failing to do your own homework) and you rolled snake eyes. Seller owes you absolutely nothing.

Dude... *I* wouldn't pay that for that board, and you obviously wouldn't either, but he's quite clear on it not likely working. ("You should assume it will need to be trouble shot and repaired."). He could ask a million dollars for it, and if there's someone out there stupid enough to pay that, good for the seller. You don't get to decide what he asks for his goods... you only get to decide if the price is what you're willing to pay for it or not. That's the beauty of capitalism.

You're right about that. What you're doing to him isn't slander, it's libel.

You did nothing wrong, libel my ass! The guy ripped you off plain & simple, some people will always side with the crook.

Let's again review the actual wording from the sale, SHALL WE????:

-"used and untested condition" (fact, not subject to speculation)
-"you should assume it will need to be trouble shot and repaired" (fair warning by seller)
-APPEARS to be in good overall condition BUT I have no means to test it (speculative observation with warning that seller has no idea of the working condition)
-AS IS (means you are purchasing AS IS)
-No warranties (obviously)
-No returns (clearly)

Conclusion: You bought an overpriced POS. You admit that you didn't look at the photos well enough.

Get over this "good overall condition" thing that you're hanging your hat on. There are other words AROUND that fragment that complete a full sentence and a clearer picture of what you're buying.

You're right about one thing though. The guy IS selling junk.

Libel? Where did I mention that?

Good luck to you on your Paypal dispute, bud.

Ah. I was just quoting the most recent post. Don't care about "libel" and frankly don't care about this entire thread anymore. Why? Because PayPal will find in your favor. Not because you're right. It's because they're a bunch of pansies.

Make sure you report back with all the good news, bud.

The seller knows that it's junk that's why he doesn't want to take it back. Offered to eat the shipping I bet he still wouldn't take it back

Being from a newspaper family, just for shits and giggles, could you explain to me what you think 'libel' means?

It's not surprising so many people have issues selling on ebay. If the seller had posted "for parts not working" then I would totally be on his side. He didn't. On top of that he described the board as good condition. Sellers know putting "for parts, not working" kills the value of an item, as a lot of people clear it out of their search results. One of my side companies had 4.8 mil go through our eBay account last year, and rarely if ever has an issue. My guys also post 20-30 images in the ad, so there usually is no question of condition. Simple fact is seller threw up 3 shit pics, sweetened up the description, and is frustrated that the buyer is coming back at him. Amazing....play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Remember the auctions for PlayStations that were actually for PlayStation BOXES? Those were classic.

I dunno man.. pos board or not, there's pictures, besides the corrosion the board DOES appear to be overall ok-- could be much worse, could have cracks or lots of hacks, and he clearly stated it prob needed work and no returns.

I think it's fair to say it's a gamble - if you think you can fix it based on pictures knowing what you get is what you get -- no returns.

If he sent a different board or something, totally grounds for a claim. Or if he said it works, or there's no corrosion, etc.. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. I don't think your entitled to a refund/return.

I can clearly see the corrosion in the photos. You have admitted that you can clearly see the corrosion in the pictures. How much higher resolution do you want? The seller posted excellent photos, and didn't mislead in the description of the board. You obviously overpaid for the board, but that's a different matter. As I said before, we can argue about what constitutes "good" till we're blue in the face-- it's a subjective term.

"Bad" like "good" is subjective. I have seen and even owned some boards with objectively worse corrosion and acid damage that still worked perfectly. If he doesn't get to decide what constitutes "good", you don't get to decide what constitutes "bad". He didn't try to sell it as a working board, he posted high resolution photos, you just don't like what you got and now you've gone from wanting him to refund 1/2 of your money *and* letting you keep the board to trying to keep the board and get all of the money back.

You just proved it yourself. You disagree with him. That doesn't make him a liar. You've made unfounded accusations for the entire world to see.

It appears to me that you have a perfectly repairable board.

I'm fine with him asking $500,000 for it. The market will determine if he's priced it right or not. You seem to fail at basic economics here.

Trust me, the feeling is mutual palooka. You've done so much damage to your own reputation with this thread, and you don't even realize it.

Vdo...

Life is too short for waging an eternal war against your eBay enemies. At this point it might be time to let this one go.

We've seen your pics of the board and the picture you took of your mobile device showing the auction item, which is (extremely) lo-res, how about showing us a link to the actual auction so we can see the pictures the seller put up for the item ourselves... Also, if you are experienced (and it sounds like you are) and know that boards can be roached when you buy them, why did you not ask the seller for more photos of the boards in question before clicking the buy it now button?

Freaking Levi the king of confrontation with eternal words of wisdom for the buyer. Big thumbs up.

He already said he looked at the lower rez pix on his phone. Jeez, let's just drop this whole thing. It really doesn't matter what EITHER side thinks. If the buyer FEELS the item was Not as HE felt described the No Returns don't mean anything in Ebay's eyes.
Just work it through and let this die....JMO

ebay.com link: Williams Police Force Pinball MPU Board Used

Did you miss this?

As both a long time seller & buyer on eBay (over 17 years of selling with 50,000+ transactions on 5 users) I can relate to both sides of the story.

The issue I would have with the sellers listing is he says NOTHING about battery damage and he should have disclosed that (as anyone in the hobby knows). On the flip side it was sold as-is (no returns) and to me that is a red flag regardless of anything else said.

As far as the buyer - I can't blame him for being upset but I also don't agree with him wanting his money back. Buyer should have emailed an asked for more specifics, better pictures, etc. But siding with the buyer - when a seller has great feedbacks sometimes we get careless and don't do what common sense tells us should be done.

There is no black & white answer here - just shades of grey. My best advice to buyers - especially when it comes to eBay - is ask questions & avoid sellers that state NO RETURNS in the text of their listing. Unless a seller is selling something he expects buyers to have an issue with there is no reason to make a return policy a big deal.

I don't doubt Paypal or eBay will side with the buyer - they typically do. But the drama here is just unnecessary. My advice to the buyer is to just fight the battle behind closed doors from this point on. It was nice that you posted a warning about this seller but going back & forth on this is just a waste of your time at this point. People on Pinside have been warned about the seller - just let it go as that and move on.

Maybe they'll listen to you....

Excellent.

You'll win, because paypal always sides with the buyer, not because you are right.

Sooooooo...how about them Mets??

I'm not going to go as far as to say he's right. It's obvious he didn't do his due diligence after seeing some corrosion on the board.

That said, the seller was CLEARLY trying to hide the extent of the corrosion damage on this board. NO mention of widespread corrosion and no close-up photos.

I've been a victim of similar auctions, but in the end I only had myself to blame for not asking questions or getting better pics. I hope you get your refund. He should have been honest about the condition.

Oh, sorry. Wrong thread. Super Flite doesn't even have boards.

s-l1600 (resized).jpg

In the end, especially on eBay, it is 'caveat emptor'. I feel for the OP though, don't get me wrong, as I probably would have done the same thing.

I got burned once as a seller where I transferred tickets (that I sold at a loss-wasn't scalping for a profit) to a buyer and when the show was over they claimed the seats were bad (it was at the United Center in Chicago and I provided the section number) and eBay/PayPal refunded the money even though the concert was over, and the tickets were used. So they got a free concert, and I got nothing, and eBay wouldn't even refund my seller fees and PayPal wouldn't refund their transaction fee....so in addition to being out the ticket cost, I was out another $15+ in fees.

Shucks, I was only quoting you, and then you go and libel me as well. You're really doing a great job of dirtying your own reputation in the hobby.

As I see it, the seller was quite honest about the condition of the board. The pictures show the extensive corrosion, and he wasn't trying to sell it as a working board-- and in fact says in the listing that a buyer should assume it needs repair. The only variable as far as I'm concerned is about the use of the word "good"-- which as already noted, is an inherently subjective term.

I think you both have made your point...redundantly. Agree to disagree. One of you spent money and feel like you got hosed, the other did not. And to boot, if somebody selling items such as boards and pinball parts has any knowledge of the hobby and game components and yet still "underdescribes" the condition...that is shady and they are bullshitters. Simple. I see a ton of people (that I know have been in the hobby and know what they are talking about) list boards as "untested and not sure if working" that they know are trash. It happens all the time, and there's probably hundreds of them on eBay. People trying to get money out of something they know cannot be repaired or just scrap.

As somebody said above, just sell it as "for parts". As for this board in question, it had damage and the seller's ad did have questionable language, particularly if he knows boards, components and condition.

And please stop with throwing the word libel around with improper usage. It's a noun, not a verb (well, can be under certain usage and circumstances). You don't "libel" somebody. And the actual meaning in the profession in which it matters (the law) is a slanderous comment made in writing, causing PROVABLE detriment to the referenced person and/or subject. The important thing with libel AGAIN is provable and substantiated pecuniary loss (financial). Good luck proving substantial economic loss over a $175 board, or that posts in a pinball forum cost you your house, car and all means of economic income or support. In most jurisdictions it costs about $200 to $300 to even file a complaint and get litigation started.

If you all want to start lawsuits or throw meaningful amounts of money at litigation over nothing, please call me. I'd be happy to help.

beating dead horse.gif