It all depends on how you look at it tho.

I bought a Tron pro and spent 1500 in mods and sold it 7 years later for $2000 more than I paid.

I bought STLE and sold it for same as I paid (including mods) after 4 years.

those 2 games example had owned 11 years cumulative and made $500 while playing more than a thousand games.

Now it's true the purchase price is not in line with a $1200 old pin but the cost of ownership was nil.

true that I lost money on a few pins like XMLE but overall not really lost much, I own my Potc going on 14 years now and can sell it for maybe 700 less than I have spent on it would be less than $1 a week of ownership. (I actually over paid when I bought that because I didn't know about direct purchases so I bought it retail form a pin shop and paid sales tax and delivery so it was 5200 back in 2006 had I bought it direct I'd probably be even money).

I've been collecting 16 years now and probably spent over 100 grand on pins but factoring in bought and sold (gain and loss) the cost was probably less than $500 a year.

I have two small flipper EM where there pucker factor just ratchets to 11 when the ball drops down into the flipper zone.

Just a brutal feeling as you try and loft the ball back where it will do the most good. High risk/reward shots for sure. SDTM should you fail. Love it.

I don't get the criticism for long ball times. You love pinball, but playing it more upsets you?

I like fast, short games too, but a long-assed game on IMDN hits the spot just as well.

Banning. The best all in one place.

My pinball taste has evolved in my life and it is still going. I seem to love all pinball.

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I totally get this.

There are 0 games in my collection that I played when I was a kid. Certainly no themes I was familiar with as a kid.

Ninja Turtles looks like a fun pin, but I can't say I'm one of the guys out there who are clinging to their TMNT bedsheets and action figures with undying love. I grew out of that shit when I hit double digit age.

Can I still get a Death Wish pin? When I was 12, I watched a Death Wish II VHS at my grandpas house when no one was watching me. That was a cool moment from my youth. Too bad that theme doesn't measure up to the mass commercial appeal of almighty Turtle Power. Bummer dude!

Upvoted for the Saxon shirt.

I was going to post something along the lines like this.

Ironically my DMD games get played the least and when I do play, right now, it's only for a short time since my life is getting busy again. The newer Stern bank that I have gets used even less. Not because I don't like Sterns or DMDs, it's just that when I enjoy them, I try to to their fullest extent. For those newer games, I need to spend a greater deal of time on one game to try for all the modes etc.

I like/love/appreciate games from the 30's to today. Soon I can appreciate pins that span over a century!

My oldest pin: 1956 Williams Hot Diggity.
Newest Pin: 2019 Stern Munster Premium
Variety of EM, SS and DMDs in between. Sometimes want to turn on a game that is gorgeous, fast and loose, hit the start button immediately and be finished in 5-10 minutes. Sometimes want to turn on a game thats attractive but more refined, matured and sophisticated, let it slowly boot up, and stretch play for 45-60 minutes. It's nice to have a varied stable of options

I can pretty much make the following statement without a doubt in my mind. “If it wasn’t for Neil Shatz, I probably would have never played and EM in my entire life, let alone own a bunch over the years.”

That was quite a few years ago when I though EMs were a bore. I changed my mind very quickly once I realized that you have to approach older games with a different skill set. It has very little to do with competently playing MODERN pinball.
Playing ONLY modern games is fine if you only play and like those games. The desire to own and master EMs in the pinball community has a lot more to do with the current state of competitive pinball over embracing “an earlier time” and “old man nostalgia”. Some probably are in that “old man pinball group” but around here in the Midwest, most EM owners compete in some sort of competitive pinball... League, tournaments, $1 games at the bar.

I’ll say this:
Most older games, and especially EMs, have sexualized or vaguely (or overtly) racist themes or art. I get that they are a product of their time and this is not a comment on their layouts or rule sets, but in my house, in the time through which we are living - it’s a no go.

Of course there are exceptions but I suspect the above may be a factor in what ends up in the garage/basement/cave.

False.

I'm older. My 1st job at 14 was working at a swim club our neighbor owed. This was 1974. For $1.50 an hour my duties were to skim dead squirrels out of the pools, fix umbrellas that wouldn't raise and maintain the pins and record the play meter total. Bonus was I could play for free and swim an hour a day and get paid.

When he showed me how to lift a PF to check a dead flipper, I was enthralled. The smell of an EM never leaves you with a PF up. The wiring and all the relays looked overwhelming. Caught that same smell 34 years later when I bought my 1st game "Flying Carpet".

Newer games, amusing but not for me. I'll drop quarters but lose interest quick after 2-4 minutes on ball #1 trying to figure out what I should shoot at next. I don't want to spend 5 minutes trying to decipher what the instruction card says before dropping my coins.

Yeah, I'm old but feel free to walk on my lawn. I won't bitch.

You have it backwards. There are exceptions that are non-PC, but the majority are just fine.

One of the most inaccurate and uninformed nonsense posts that I have ever seen on this site.

There are some that did not age so well “in the times that we live” but it’s more like 1-2 percent of all machines ever made and you would really have to seek them out on purpose to find one. NOT MOST!
Posting things like this may seem like no big deal but it is so bad for the site and for the public opinion of pinball in general. It’s like people are trying to burn down the hobby.

I'm sure Bospins will get right on taking the Jungle Queen they own to the dump with a sexist depiction of a woman as a theme.

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My apologies gents.

As you were!

I would say 70's and 80's pins are the more sexualized. The amount of rock hard nipples makes you think we went through an ice age during that time.

I prefer the 70' and 80's art.

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To me, only liking modern machines is like only liking modern movies and music.

Look at modern movies vs old ones. CGI and amazing special effects. High def digital video and amazing sound. Some of them are visually stunning. And yet some older movies that aren't even in color, maybe even without sound can be as good or better.

Or music... 32 track, lots of technology and perfect production coming from multiple takes and overdubs, hi def digital sound on 4+ minute songs. Compared to songs under 3 minutes, 4 tracks, maybe even mono, done in 1 or 2 takes

Nothing wrong with either era. There are greats in both. There are dogs in both. But restricting yourself to one era of pinball is like refusing to watch a black and white movie. You're going to miss out on some good times

Isn't calling most of these recent games "modern" some kind of an oxy moron?

Seriously, in what universe is Willy Wonka or TMNT or any of these ancient petrified dinosaur themes modern?

Based on that logic, would 1917 not be considered a modern film because it's theme is 100 years old?

Wrong, I am up to 39 games and counting with zero interest in older games. To me older single level games are boring as hell and do nothing for me. Everyone likes different things and it is not 'wrong' if you do not care for older titles or if you prefer newer titles. One thing I am finding as my collection gets bigger is I pay way more attention now to themes and I now really prefer games I can relate to. Theme has become big for me in the last couple of years.

BTW O-din you know I am serious about Radical-pm me when you have had your fill (:

I call it the rule of thirds, the three elements that make a great pin.

Theme, sound and game play

Interesting. For me it's about 80% game play and 10% sound and 10% theme.

For me, the theme just has to "not suck". My 3 machines are MBr, EBD, and WH20. And I am not a fan of Movie Monsters, or Billiards, and I have never been whitewater rafting (though I'd kind of like to try some day). These machines all have great gameplay, but are not known for their great sound.

I am however, a huge Star Trek / Star Wars fan, but those machines don't get the gameplay nod from me (though ST:TNG and the Bally Star Trek are at least decent).

For me, that's a fine line there. As so many themes from the last few years have sucked so bad, in fact almost all of them, that whatever drug I had to take to momentarily imagine they did "not suck" just to be able to play something new, albeit not modern by any stretch of the imagine if theme is factored into the equation, no longer works.

But, it been a fun ride and great for quite a few laughs. I'd say theme choices have gotten downright pathetic as of late for the most part, but it takes more than that to wipe the smile and smirk off of my face.

Start a poll!

I believe he started this thread thinking everybody that read his initial post would end up with the same kind of pole he had.

But, too many of the responses must have left him a little limp. And thus bailed on what seemed like such a promising topic when he dreamed it up.

I agree. For example, Iron Maiden is a theme that "sucks". Even though the gameplay is quite good, the sucky theme prevents me from considering a purchase. As another example, BKSOR is an OK theme, but the gameplay isn't there.

If they would re-theme Iron Maiden as Black Knight, it would have purchase potential. For me, the theme just has to be OK, if the gameplay is worthy. But if the theme sucks...well, the rest of it won't matter.

I think that's not entirely true. sometimes the thirds can move around.

My BSD, love the hard gameplay,like the dark sound. But the theme...not really my cup
And my A13, gameplay is ok, sound is great as I love the movie, and theme? This game will never leave me. I'm too big of a rocket and space fan and it's standing right next to my displays of modelrockets.

So thirds is definately off sometimes

Its just a rule of thumb.

Sometimes great game play and sound can overcome a poor theme.

You get two areas that are weak though and the last third can't pull it across the finish line. I love Data East but not even considering a Tales from the Crypt as the theme does nothing for me and the whole Crypt Keeper shtick kills the sound portion, like nails on a chalkboard. Might be the finest pin DE made but the negatives kill it for me.

Other people love it I'm sure, there is something for everyone.

If you feel like you can’t get into older pins, I highly recommend going to Pinburgh. Playing an EM or SS pin competitively gives me an adrenaline rush. I fell in love with Sound Stage, Argosy and Triple Action at Pinburgh. I just finished restoring an OXO and it’s plenty fast - I had to move it off of high-tap so the game didn’t play itself.

I’ve gotten into a groove where I only play EM and SS pins during my workday breaks. Then when 5:00 comes, I crack a beer and settle into a nice long game of JP or AS or GOTLE. They’re all great. I feel sorry for people who can’t enjoy all eras of pinball. That said, I love visiting large collections with no DMDs. I can get my DMD fix on location; SS and EM are much harder to find in good shape.

I don't know about newbies only liking modern games.

I'm a novice, being quite young(ish) and growing up in the UK I don't remember seeing many pins and certainly didn't know what they were.

Yet I love EM's despite only being able to play at events and would also love an SS, probably old Stern.

However I also mostly dislike LED's and while I imagine the new Sterns play well I can't get into the same open fan design and art.
Themes are great but...

Still, my preference has zero clout compared to you guys when I don't get to play many and often.

I also like to play older games with friends. Ball times are much shorter and luck is a bigger factor.
I just can't play a longplayer with friends. They will be annoyed soon when they play for 2 mins and then they have to watch me play 20 minutes.

A well tuned EM is a joy to play, I found it puzzling to hear people state "they were slow and boring" till I went to my first pin show. If your opinions of EM is based on what you see and play at a show I think there lies part of the problem! The number of well playing EM I have seen at shows the last 3 years has been disheartening. I played one fully restored EM that was pitched so poorly the ball ambled around the playfield aimlessly. The machine looked great, pity the gameplay did not match.

Typical play on a well tuned EM should be a twitch-fest of speed. Deep? No but there should be plenty of excitement.

WRONG!