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(Topic ID: 272885)

Does anyone else just like modern games?


By Jeffswack

3 months ago



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  • 74 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 84 days ago by Tranquilize
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    There are 137 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    #1 3 months ago

    I've tried but I just can't get an appreciation for most games made before 95 or so. I love the stuff JJP and Stern is doing these days. Even the heyday WPC machines like Medieval Madness, Congo, AFM, etc while I find fun I wouldn't want to own in a home setting. As I was looking to expand my collection--i just keep coming back to newer stuff.

    I know there is lots of hate for newer games but can anyone else just not get into EM/SS/EarlyDMD games?

    #2 3 months ago

    The larger your collection gets the more you will appreciate the pick up and play nature of older games. When you have 15 games to choose from and only a couple of hours to play, a super deep complex game will force you to neglect a lot of your collection. This is only theoretical of course since I have a small collection, but I assume this will be the case. Older games were not designed to be played at home, a large collection more closely resembles the amount of time one has to dedicate to a single game at a bar.

    44
    #3 3 months ago

    I’m actually the opposite. I can’t really get into the new stuff.

    23
    #4 3 months ago

    Well, usually newbs like newer games. No disrespect, of course, I like newer games myself! I used to feel exactly like you do. However, time will pass and you will learn to like older games. Trust me. It will happen. Patience, my friend.

    -3
    #5 3 months ago

    Woodrails, sure they have great art work, but playwise, nup....

    31
    #6 3 months ago

    After collecting for nearly 20 years I like having diversity in my collection. I have games from meteor to the latest JP. I went through phases of Williams dmd, modern sterns and then all classic sterns/Bally’s. The right answer for me was a mix of all of them. All era of games bring something to the table.

    Mike

    11
    #7 3 months ago

    The games you mentioned are considered classics by most serious pinball enthusiasts/players these days.

    You mentioned the phrase "Get into". Once I play a single ball for 20+ mins on a game, I have to try to make the game harder by removing posts or something else crazy. Unless the game is brutal, the pinball experience is just not very satisfying for me.
    Generally speaking, the newer machines have MUCH longer ball times (especially true with JJP titles).

    Myself, I can't really "get into" games where a 4 player game takes an hour. I do like some of everything and have owned a lot of games over the years. One reason I had to sell TSPP is that as time went on learning the game became an extremely long playing, drawn out, monotonous experience. You may like a game that is nearly impossible to reach the end mode(s) on. Those games remind me more of a RPG style video game more than a classic pinball experience.

    When I think of crazy action and a pinball arcade experience I tend to gravitate towards games like Stern Tron or AFM. They are non stop action and are over the top and cheesy as hell. It's just what I like. It reminds me of the brutal nature of the old school arcade. You are trying to keep that ball alive so that you get your money's worth out of the arcade operator whose pockets you are filling. For me, that experience is completely lost on titles with ball times and video enhancements that are meant to engage the player away from the actual physical action and physics of pinball.

    It seems like you know what you like and you don't have to waste and money or time owning those titles you mentioned. You are a step ahead of a lot of others in the hobby. Seems like others buy games just to try them out, only to be disappointed and they don't figure out what they really want out of a game until they make a lot of mistakes buying and reselling many titles.

    When I started out collecting, I really thought Monster Bash was a fantastic title and always thought I would own one some day. As time went on, I realized it's just not the game for me. It's fun but it is not a title I see myself playing again and again. I just don't feel like I would get my money's worth out of it, after playing it at other venues, homes, and tournaments hundreds and hundreds of times. Certain games just lose their appeal after time goes bye. Other titles I never thought I would like are games that I will likely never let go.

    13
    #8 3 months ago
    Quoted from Jeffswack:

    I've tried but I just can't get an appreciation for most games made before 95 or so. I love the stuff JJP and Stern is doing these days. Even the heyday WPC machines like Medieval Madness, Congo, AFM, etc while I find fun I wouldn't want to own in a home setting. As I was looking to expand my collection--i just keep coming back to newer stuff.
    I know there is lots of hate for newer games but can anyone else just not get into EM/SS/EarlyDMD games?

    I’ve found with most the longtime old-school collectors (20+ years in the hobby) they always tend to go back to the roots. Some of them are even collecting pre-war games now! Talk about dull!

    However, I think the reason why people seem to start with modern and stick for a while is the learning curve. Modern games have a more directed approach to their features. They basically tell you what to do. Even though I find them very difficult and confusing; the gameplay is straightforward and the difficulty is in figuring out what order to play and how to progress to obtain the deeper modes with higher scoring opportunities.

    Old games, especially early SS games and the classics of the 80s or the ubiquitous games of the 90s, they are simply playing, but scoring is not so intuitive. To understand and dominate those games it’s less about modes and knowledge of the code, more about player skills and ball control. Execution and handling skills are king for dominating the classics.

    Ball saving really didn’t become standard till 93 or so. Even Twilight Zone didn’t have it till the new and improved code came along. If you lost the ball that was IT. This challenge enables the player to be more deeply involved with the game in my opinion. It’s truly man vs machine.

    Being only a decent player myself, I have found my deep love for the SS classics stems from the ingenuity. They are clever and fresh. They were willing to experiment. Some things flopped and companies folded. The absolute necessity of the 80s arcade and the video game and arcade crash REQUIRED tradition to get tossed in favor of the next BIG THING. The wide array of absurd features that we never see repeated again adds to their allure!

    There’s a lot to love about all of pinball, the most basic truth I find for why anyone doesn’t enjoy certain machines, is mainly lack of true understanding. Not in a rude way, just that even 70s EMs require a totally different mindset from Early SS games. The late 80s games play nothing like games of the kid 90s
    Games from the 50s and 60s baffle me, but having someone knowledgeable to explain them in detail has piqued my interested.
    When you get down and *really* understand a game, when the lightbulb goes off and you can envision the path to a replay, truly I think you can enjoy almost anything.

    #9 3 months ago

    I've had pins at home for 18 years, and I've always been a DMD and newer guy.

    I remember games from the late 80s on location, but T2 was the first game that really got me into pinball.

    I can appreciate and have fun playing older games from earlier eras...especially with a group of people, but don't have a big desire to own any.

    #10 3 months ago

    I'm curious as to what it is that doesn't appeal to the OP on pre-1995 games? Gameplay, wear and tear, rulesets, lack of modes, lighting, toys/gimmicks?

    I like games from all eras, but they are incredibly different from one another as to how you approach them. For me, variety is the spice of life. Having a larger collection would certainly make it easier to expand out and enjoy pins from all eras, however.

    #11 3 months ago

    Obviously there are different groups, eras, and generations of games. It seems like some or most folks want to classify themselves as loyalists to a certain brand or type of game but I just can't do that. Pinball is pinball for me. Every machine is different and has something to offer.

    #12 3 months ago

    Any games that require strategy and difficult shots can be fun. IMHO, if you don't find other machines fun, you're simply not getting it. I was in the rut for a while with only playing 90s w/b until tournament play forced me to learn older games. They are just different. Equally fun, but refreshingly different, even ems are fun. New Stern's are great to learn trap and shoot. Again, different and fun.

    My Genie has been non stop fun since purchase.

    #13 3 months ago

    How old are you?

    #14 3 months ago

    I myself got into pinball pretty late in life compared to most (late 30s). Having a limited amount of room (enough for 3 pins) I tended to lean towards flashy lights and color screens, etc. I very much agree with the poster who mentioned if you had a large collection it would make sense. If I had the room I would absolutely have a more diverse collection.

    So I guess I agree with you, but if I had the room I certainly wouldnt fill it all up with new games.

    11
    #15 3 months ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    When you get down and *really* understand a game, when the lightbulb goes off and you can envision the path to a replay, truly I think you can enjoy almost anything.

    I have 60's through present day pins, they all have their various charms and appreciate what each generation brings to the table.

    #16 3 months ago

    Im pretty much the same way. Im 39 and just starting collecting 2 years ago. I much prefer the last decade of games, but enjoy things going back to MM/AFM. Rarely will I spend much time on and 70s/80s machine when I play on location. My favorite old one would be Diner.

    As for collecting i have 3 new sterns and a virtual to play all the old ones. I would like to get a MM but want the remake.

    #17 3 months ago

    When I started playing, the lineup at the local arcade was Black Knight 2K, Addams Family, Whirlwind, Earthshaker, T2, Riverboat Gambler, and Dr. Dude. So I started on a variety of machines. We had taken some trips to Wildwood, NJ and the pinball machines in some of the arcades on the boardwalk just overwhelmed me. They were almost all the early SS machines, and they just all seemed like the same game to me at the time.

    Now I own a Whirlwind and an Earthshaker, but my first game was a Whitewater. Bought it without ever playing it until i tested it out at the guy's house. I just picked up a Dialed In earlier this year, so for me I tend to like games from the late 80's and newer. I'm sure that when i have a larger collection, there may be an EM or late SS mixed in there. So for me, it seems that it's where I started playing.

    #18 3 months ago
    Quoted from snowy_owl:

    Well, usually newbs like newer games. No disrespect, of course, I like newer games myself! I used to feel exactly like you do. However, time will pass and you will learn to like older games. Trust me. It will happen. Patience, my friend.

    This describes my experience accurately. Check back in another couple years.

    In the meantime, have fun!

    #19 3 months ago

    I own and enjoy games from the 70's through present.

    As others have said, all eras have their charms and strengths.

    EM's have a completely different feel and nudging skills are paramount for many of these.

    In the early SS era, engineers who had worked for decades with the more limited EM technology embraced the new technology and there was a kind of Renaissance explosion in design and imagination. Not all these ideas worked in the end, but this may be the most creative era for basic audacity of design of shots and PF.

    In the alpha-numeric era into the DMD era (Whirlwind and until BW went under), the idea of a larger-scaled "story" of modes to accomplish and wizard modes to ultimately aim for came into being, so the narrative of games had a larger canvas to "paint" on. This resulted in a more integrated approach. Add ball saves to this, and you have an experience that emphasizes both the classic shots of the early SS era but with more depth.

    Modern pins (generally WOZ and beyond) have been both more forgiving (ball save and potentially long ball times) and more brutal insofar as the player really needs to know the ruleset to be able to excel. This, to cater to the HUO and collector market. Players who will own games for years want something new to challenge them when they've played a game 3,000 times.

    IMO, they're all good. It depends on my mood. Sometimes I really need a few games of EL Dorado EM and I laugh out loud if I get a house ball or manage to knock down all the targets and reset them. Other times, I'm loving the simple challenge of trying to rack up the bonuses in Fathom. The basic yet challenging aspects of Fish Tales keep me laughing or coming back for more. Another time, I might be in a mood to attempt to crack open a huge score in BM 66, trying to go through the main Villain modes, pick up Minor villains and crank the bonus multipliers in a 20 minute long game.

    If you're talking about a collection, it depends on how much space you have. IMO, the fewer spaces you have, the less luxury you have to have older games. So few spaces = recent games. If you have the space and money, you're probably going to want a bit of everything for the sake of variety.

    #20 3 months ago

    As a collector, buy what you enjoy.
    As a casual player, play what you enjoy.
    As a tourney player, sometimes it is necessary to play games one would never choose to play, let alone buy.

    12
    #21 3 months ago

    The longer you’re in the hobby, the more nuanced your tastes become. You begin to appreciate the simplicity of the older games - it’s a more pure pinball experience.

    And you don’t stop liking new stuff, you just expand.

    #22 3 months ago

    Play whirlwind and see if you still feel the same way

    #23 3 months ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    The longer you’re in the hobby, the more nuanced your tastes become. You begin to appreciate the simplicity of the older games - it’s a more pure pinball experience.
    And you don’t stop liking new stuff, you just expand.

    Ripping the spinners in Night Rider and hearing the reels and chimes trying to keep up is just such a treat, worth a game in itself. And then trying to get all the drops down to light the bonus is pure marksmanship pinball.

    #24 3 months ago

    I want to like SS/EM games but not happening. I grew up mostly in the SS era but don't have any memories of pins until late 80's sys11. Pins that really caught my attention where early 90's dmd. They had integrated themes with music, callouts, humor, display animations, and incredible toys.

    #25 3 months ago

    I appreciate the simplicity of some older games and I enjoy playing them, but I just wouldn't want to own one in my home. More modern games (DMD and beyond) with their more complex rule sets create more repeat playing enjoyment. If I had unlimited resources, both money and an airplane hanger sized game room, I wouldn't mind a collection with older games, as some are fun to play and the art work is stunning at times. With that said, I find the newer games are the ones that get the most quarters from my pocket when I'm out playing and are really the only ones I would consider buying for home.

    #26 3 months ago

    I recently picked up a Tag Team just to add something a little different. Can't stop playing it. Such a rush to rip a good spinner shot.

    #27 3 months ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    I want to like SS/EM games but not happening. I grew up mostly in the SS era but don't have any memories of pins until late 80's sys11. Pins that really caught my attention where early 90's dmd. They had integrated themes with music, callouts, humor, display animations, and incredible toys.

    Data East has some great titles for music, humor and display animations. I just picked up Torpedo Alley and have been playing the hell out of it, 8 different music tracks! They made the most out of the available tech at the time, also try DE Time Machine.

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    #28 3 months ago

    I am way more into older games. Shorter, more brutal games appeal to me and I like the simplicity. I do have to admit that some newer games are pretty awesome though so a good mix would be perfect IMO.

    #29 3 months ago

    There’s nothing wrong with liking what you like, and don’t let anyone convince you otherwise.

    I shared a similar sentiment for a while. I wanted the deepest games I could get my hands on or afford. As my collection matured, and as I played more games, I started to prefer older stuff with shorter ball times and easier to understand rules.

    Give me BSD over GOT any day. They’re both damn fine games, but I simply don’t want to sit there and have to read a manual the size of a dictionary to understand what I have to do in order to maximize my scoring potential. This is especially true on location when I’m really just trying to have a good time and burn a few minutes and 50 of my hard earned cents.

    With a group or in multiplayer (which for me is when I have the most fun playing), I actually prefer multiplayer EMs or System 11s. No ball saves, quick turnaround, no one gets bored waiting for a player to play off their 3 extra balls they’ve won, and everyone can understand what they have to do.

    #30 3 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Data East has some great titles for music, humor and display animations. I just picked up Torpedo Alley and have been playing the hell out of it, 8 different music tracks! They made the most out of the available tech at the time, also try DE Time Machine.[quoted image]

    Don't think I have ever seen either of those games. They do look pretty fun. Love what you did with your Torpedo Alley. Beautiful!

    #31 3 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Data East has some great titles for music, humor and display animations. I just picked up Torpedo Alley and have been playing the hell out of it, 8 different music tracks! They made the most out of the available tech at the time, also try DE Time Machine.[quoted image]

    Yeah I’ve never seen one looks Awsome

    #32 3 months ago

    I have never played an EM game that held my attention long enough to drop a second coin. There are a few Solid State Pre-DMD games I liked, (Bonzai Run, High Speed, Whirlwind). But, I find that most of my time (90% or more) is spent on the more modern games like JJP's, Stern's Spike games, etc. Although, TronLE has long been my number #1 or #2 on the all-time favorite list. I think that I find great value in the additional modes, music, sound, bright lights, and overall modern feel of the game.

    #34 3 months ago

    I like every era of Pinball. Most of our modern and DMD era pins are in the house.
    The garage is mostly alpha numeric solid states, EM and a couple oddball DMDs.

    We have one friend who doesn’t even want to play anything in the garage and will go streight to the most modern machines. It’s bizare because there are machines in the garage he has never played and he just doesn’t care, “it’s not his thing”.
    @ajnada and I laugh about it because we’re like WTF, the garage is awesome because it’s like a time warp.

    Also, sometimes modern machines piss me off. Pinball is supposed to be fun and modern machines can be very intense sometime and boarder line stressful.
    It’s good to take a break from that and play older stuff. There’s something therapeutic about slower, simpler EM pinball machines. A really good alpha numeric solid state is just flat out fun.

    #35 3 months ago

    Absolutely love my Doctor Who.
    Its never leaving.

    #36 3 months ago
    Quoted from mbrave77:

    Im pretty much the same way. Im 39 and just starting collecting 2 years ago. I much prefer the last decade of games, but enjoy things going back to MM/AFM. Rarely will I spend much time on and 70s/80s machine when I play on location. My favorite old one would be Diner.
    As for collecting i have 3 new sterns and a virtual to play all the old ones. I would like to get a MM but want the remake.

    I love my diner!
    pinballgoddess says it will never leave.

    Simple yet brutal, no ball save.

    Really a fun game.

    #37 3 months ago

    Newer Stern games I would say are preferred by the vast majority of people who play pinball. Just holds their interest better. More flashy lights, video screens, multiballs, music, and for experienced players deeper code. I personally just don't like them that much. Vastly prefer my single level, I fully understand this game, brutal short ball fest. Its probably my era, or I just like simple, or I am just simple.

    #38 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    Absolutely love my Doctor Who.
    Its never leaving.

    I think DW is probably one of my favorites ever. Super shallow but so so satisfying. I cannot get into games much older than this. Maybe late 80s, but that's it. I tried to play older games and the bore me to tears. But games of the early 90s and beyond are where they're at for me. And this is coming from a guy that played NONE of these machines growing up, but only got into collecting around 2006 or so (so no nostalgia bug here, just love myself some good games because they're fun!).

    #39 3 months ago

    No.

    Most modern games have the same layouts with the worst themes ever, terrible artwork, and are built like crap.

    Can you say "phoned in"?

    12
    #40 3 months ago

    By all means, stay away from the older EM games. You won't like them and this will leave them for me. Seriously, I started out in your shoes but have come to find out how fantastic the earlier games can be. I started playing in the mid 70s and ignored all the older games. Big mistake, some of these older games had fantastic shots with challenging but unforgiving rules. I prefer a wild three minute ride to a thirty minute slog through a bunch of modes. Just me though...

    #41 3 months ago
    Quoted from GSones:

    By all means, stay away from the older EM games. You won't like them and this will leave them for me. Seriously, I started out in your shoes but have come to find out how fantastic the earlier games can be. I started playing in the mid 70s and ignored all the older games. Big mistake, some of these older games had fantastic shots with challenging but unforgiving rules. I prefer a wild three minute ride to a thirty minute slog through a bunch of modes. Just me though...

    Any recommendations for the OP to try?

    #42 3 months ago
    Quoted from Daditude:

    Any recommendations for the OP to try?

    #43 3 months ago
    Quoted from Daditude:

    Any recommendations for the OP to try?

    El Dorado - 15 drops simple, understandable rules
    2001 - 20 drops, 2 inch flippers but get your nudging skills tuned up.
    Klondike - wonderful risk/reward layout
    Hundreds of other ones if you give them the chance and they are set up properly.

    #44 3 months ago

    I got into buying machines in '97 which took me straight into the DMD era. I never was enthusiast about machines in the early 80's arcade era, was way too much into video games full stop. I remember playing pretty rarely and just never being impressed much by them. Totally different story in the 90's when I started buying for home use. If you're not into the WMS stuff of the late 90's as a 'modern' pin guy I'm kinda amazed. There's no way MM, AFM, CV, ToM, TAFG,IJ, or even FT won't have place in my collection no matter what any of the current makers put out. I'm probably more likely to shuffle a more recent pin out of my collection for a newer one than move on one of the WMS titles. With that said I do own a Haunted House that I'm slowly doing up and have always considered getting a Fathom. So I've definitely opened up to older SS titles in more recent years. It's true if you keep growing your collection it does make you consider more options.

    #45 3 months ago

    The great thing about this hobby, is that you can customize it to YOUR liking. I used to think newer was better but then I really took a deep dive on a Meteor and a Space Shuttle and forget about it! For me, early SS machines are like pinball distilled into all its best parts. But different things speak to different people and that’s cool. Enjoy the hobby.

    #46 3 months ago

    I have played the most modern game and it is bitchin'. BIG subwoofer. Hard to compare it to a game like Poker Face, but it does have a similar outlaw appeal.

    #47 3 months ago

    I’ve always jumped between era’s but I seem to have settled on a blend of newer games and early 80’s solid states. To me they both represent the best of pinball and give me completely different styles of gameplay.

    Of course I recognize the 90’s classics, and have owned most of them, but to me they just feel like shallow versions of current games without the better sound and lights.

    Recently I’ve decided the sweet spot of modern games are Sam system Sterns. I’m yet to be convinced the Spike LCD has introduced much to the game apart from making it look more modern.

    #48 3 months ago

    I really tried to get into older EM's, etc. and they just do not do anything for me. I can usually only stand to play a ball or two before I walk away. Lots of older games interest me with sounds and art(ie. Stars and Farfalla) but when it comes to gameplay they are a snooze fest for me. I bought a Skateball because I loved the theme and art-that ended up being a mistake for me and I could not wait to get rid of it. Then I bought a TNA and it blew my socks off. While it is a modern machine(hybrid), it does have a single level playfield but does not play anything like older EM's. While I do prefer modern machines -I do like variety. From Barbwire, NBA, WOF, Rolling Stones LE with power ball, etc. You can have variety in a collection without having to have different eras of pinball. I love modern machines

    #49 3 months ago

    50's, 60's, 70's aren't shit but to compare them at all would be just be foolish. Unless u grew up with them its doubtful one have any interest.
    80's has the best themes.
    90's had the best pins for arcades.
    modern stuff is the best for home use.
    That's my take but here's the big thing, what kind of jackass would limit themselves to one era of pinball?

    #50 3 months ago

    While I like pinballs of all eras (though admittedly I can't say that I have played many from the 50's or earlier), there are almost no "new" games that I would even consider purchasing (except for the CGC remakes).

    Maybe if I had room for 20 or more machines, I'd be willing to consider a DP or BM66, but as I can only fit a few games, that's not going to happen.

    My favorites are the 90's B/W, but I also love a lot of SS machines (like EBD and Centaur) and EM machines (like Atlantis and El Dorado).

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