(Topic ID: 220300)

AFM has as many rules as Tron/IM (true or false)?

By rai

5 years ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by jfre81
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    #1 5 years ago

    I just ordered my AFM remake LE , I have played AFM and most of the older games such as TAF, MM, AFM, TOM (etc..) and have owned CFTBL, TOTAN, TZ. But not really played the pins I didn't own a lot. I mean say AFM, MM, TAF played 40-50 games ever.

    I just played an older pin Whirlwind (I am not really familiar with the earlier pins pre DMD so can't decide if AFM is deeper than these type system 11 pins).

    I hear people say AFM is *short on rules* meaning it's not TWD, Woz, Lotr crazy deep.

    I'd like to know what people think regarding is it any less than Tron or IM? (I can't decide if Tron has more rules than IM or the same)

    Tron has a inset tree with 9 inserts (plus the Wizard portal) but some of these inserts for Tron can be as simple as one shot for Flynn for example so the qualifications for Portal is not as hard as say starting EOTL (Met) or LMS (on TWD).

    So can someone rank where AFM falls in relation to amount of rules compared to:

    Potc (Stern)
    SM
    Tron
    IM
    CFTBL
    TOTAN
    MM
    TAF

    I not counting the other pins like TWD, Woz, AcDc, Met, Tspp, Lotr which are deeper, longer and/or more complex.

    #2 5 years ago

    Comparable to MM, maybe a little less deep. But MUCH more fun.

    #3 5 years ago

    It is a lot easier to explain some pins to non pinheads, like PotC with the compass easy to explain exactly what to do to light the several modes. Other pins like TWD, AcDc are more complex so I just tell them the basics and don't even try to explain what's going on to get to the end game.

    I believe AFM would be super easy to explain and thus leads to my non pinball family members and non pinball friends being able to get up and play and figure what's going on.

    #4 5 years ago
    Quoted from pinlawyer:

    Comparable to MM, maybe a little less deep. But MUCH more fun.

    thanks.

    Specifically does AFM compare to Tron/IM in the rules? These two pins are nice that the Wizard mode is possible but I don't get there too often (I am talking Jerico and DOD hurry up not DOD MB).

    Does AFM have more or less than Cftbl (an example of a DMD game that I'm quite familiar with).

    #5 5 years ago

    In terms of depth, AFM doesn't come close to any of the modern Sterns you listed. They just weren't making games like that back in the 90's.

    #6 5 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    In terms of depth, AFM doesn't come close to any of the modern Sterns you listed. They just weren't making games like that back in the 90's.

    But are you saying Tron is deeper than AFM? How much does Tron have in the rules more than AFM?

    I really said not to compare to the LOTR, Tspp, AcDC and other pins with 20 page rules sheets.

    I mean PotC does not have a lot of rules (IMO) sink the ships 6 different times is not much different than destroy the saucer 6 different times. Pots pop bumper hits = one insert, hit the the ramp to the disc = one insert, hit 6 stand up targets = one insert. Ship, Kraken and Davey Jones are three inserts but are the same shot.

    #7 5 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    But are you saying Tron is deeper than AFM?

    That's exactly what I'm saying. Of course, it all depends on how you define depth. You can make it to the wizard mode faster on Tron, but there are so many more nuances to the rules. To me, a deep ruleset is about the overall journey, side goals, mini-wizard modes, etc ... This is where pretty much any modern game will shine compared to the 90's games.

    #8 5 years ago

    I realize that I'm not answering your question, but I'll throw this thought out there. Deep ruled games are fantastic for sure and do make for long term keepers, however, if all you have are deep games, your collection could become a grind to play. IMO you need some just pure fun games that you (and your guests) can step up to for a short time and bang out some pure classic pinball, without any real commitment to reaching some deep goals. AFM and MM are perfect games for that role.

    #9 5 years ago
    Quoted from bigdaddy07:

    I realize that I'm not answering your question, but I'll throw this thought out there. Deep ruled games are fantastic for sure and do make for long term keepers, however, if all you have are deep games, your collection could become a grind to play. IMO you need some just pure fun games that you (and your guests) can step up to for a short time and bang out some pure classic pinball, without any real commitment to reaching some deep goals. AFM and MM are perfect games for that role.

    That’s what I was thinking as well.

    #10 5 years ago

    AFM's fundamental rules aren't that far removed from early SS pins. If you ignore the Martian ship toy, it's laid out like one too.

    What's harder for newbies to get about the game is, for example, why you shouldn't focus on the ship or the forcefield gate until you have a multiball, and to get good at that lock shot because you'll never have that good of a score without it.

    #11 5 years ago

    Bump for the Monday morning crowd.

    I’m trying to see how does Tron have more code than AFM.

    #12 5 years ago

    IMHO, Tron isn't deeper than AFM. About equal, actually.

    -1
    #13 5 years ago
    Quoted from pinlawyer:

    IMHO, Tron isn't deeper than AFM. About equal, actually.

    I'd agree with this. Any differences in depth are pretty minimal really. That's part of Tron's appeal, that it's a straightforward game.

    #14 5 years ago

    I see mention of how shallow AFM is on here quite often, but I always considered it to be one of the deeper B/W pins. It is a Lyman game. In addition to an awesome wizard mode, there are 3 multiballs to progress towards and a ton of stacking strategies. I had IM for a while and that didn't really seem to have more depth to me. Stern has some games with incredibly deep rulesets, but most of them are just a basic '2 multiballs and some modes' level code.

    #15 5 years ago
    Quoted from Betelgeuse:

    I see mention of how shallow AFM is on here quite often, but I always considered it to be one of the deeper B/W pins. It is a Lyman game. In addition to an awesome wizard mode, there are 3 multiballs to progress towards and a ton of stacking strategies. I had IM for a while and that didn't really seem to have more depth to me. Stern has some games with incredibly deep rulesets, but most of them are just a basic '2 multiballs and some modes' level code.

    Mainly because MM makes it seem a bit shallow in comparison.

    Both are masterpieces of simple complexity, if that could exist. Both games are so easy for a complete pinball newbie to pick up, yet deep enough for hardcore players. Not sure of anyone other than Lyman and Brian Eddy who pulled this off so well, let alone twice. They're atop the PS ratings for a reason.

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