(Topic ID: 201862)

Documenting the entire life of a Metallica Pro on Route now 11,209 Plays

By Okarcades

3 years ago


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  • 149 posts
  • 48 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by bernieberg
  • Topic is favorited by 96 Pinsiders

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There are 149 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 3 years ago
Quoted from SuperDaveOsbourn:

Interested in the total cost of acquisition (purchase, taxes, transportation, installation time and travel/gas), gross revenue installed, net revenue installed, and cost of maintenance (parts, labor), split percentages at various sites (50% or varied). I'm curious as to the actual numbers on this experiment. Tx.

That's a little too much for me to keep track of. If the basic question is.... "does it make a lot of money?" the answer is no

#102 3 years ago

Does it pay for itself, may be a better question

#103 3 years ago
Quoted from Beaumistim:

Does it pay for itself, may be a better question

easy to do the general math.

11 months on route. Say 5k for the game for simple math.
$2750 total earnings to date.

Assume ~$150 in sales tax off the top
Assume 50% split with location
__________________________
Leaves you $1300 or approx $120 a month for your effort at that point.

Assume ~$100 in insurance (assuming split over multiple games it comes out to around $100 per game per year)
Assume ~$100 for small parts and flipper rebuilds per manufacturer spec
Pray for no major issues beyond normal wear/tear.

___________________________
Down to $1100 or approximately $100 per month.

How many times do you need to go to the location to maintain the game each month. Proactive maintenance would be 1x per week. After the bugs get worked out for any game you could likely get away with 1x per month.

Assume 2hr minimum between travel and maintenance and 6hr on the high end per month.

you are making $16 to $50 and hour on your 5k investment and of course quite a bit of time.

The TLDR version >> yes, it will pay off the game in approx 4 years. That means zero payment for your time.
If you have a better split then less time.

You still own the game afetr it is all said and done but that game will have 25,000 plays on average and you can expect some major failures over the 5 year span that are going to cost you way more time than your monthly avg.

#104 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

easy to do the general math.
11 months on route. Say 5k for the game for simple math.
$2750 total earnings to date.
Assume ~$150 in sales tax off the top
Assume 50% split with location
__________________________
Leaves you $1300 or approx $120 a month for your effort at that point.
Assume ~$100 in insurance (assuming split over multiple games it comes out to around $100 per game per year)
Assume ~$100 for small parts and flipper rebuilds per manufacturer spec
Pray for no major issues beyond normal wear/tear.
___________________________
Down to $1100 or approximately $100 per month.
How many times do you need to go to the location to maintain the game each month. Proactive maintenance would be 1x per week. After the bugs get worked out for any game you could likely get away with 1x per month.
Assume 2hr minimum between travel and maintenance and 6hr on the high end per month.
you are making $16 to $50 and hour on your 5k investment and of course quite a bit of time.
The TLDR version >> yes, it will pay off the game in approx 4 years. That means zero payment for your time.
If you have a better split then less time.
You still own the game afetr it is all said and done but that game will have 25,000 plays on average and you can expect some major failures over the 5 year span that are going to cost you way more time than your monthly avg.

But you don't sell it once it's paid off. You add its income to the others to get another and grow. Just like rental properties. You decide when you are at a good max and then either upgrade what you own, or just maintain.

#105 3 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

But you don't sell it once it's paid off. You add its income to the others to get another and grow. Just like rental properties. You decide when you are at a good max and then either upgrade what you own, or just maintain.

yeah, but my illustration of general numbers was just too point out... yes, you can pay it off very slowly but I dont suggest doing it without the realistic expectation that you are doing it with love and to help grow pinball. Your time is better spent with pretty much every other possible side hustle.

Pinball can be profitable in very few areas or the exact right location, but it is still fun if you go into it with the right understanding and expectations.

#106 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

yeah, but my illustration of general numbers was just too point out... yes, you can pay it off very slowly but I dont suggest doing it without the realistic expectation that you are doing it with love and to help grow pinball. Your time is better spent with pretty much every other possible side hustle.
Pinball can be profitable in very few areas or the exact right location, but it is still fun if you go into it with the right understanding and expectations.

True. If I wanted to make decent money out of this, I'd just get a second job. Nobody is getting rich that I know of routing games, but for me it's more for the hobby than the money.

-1
#107 3 years ago

The honest truth is what it is, there is little to no money for routing pinball at all, at any level really.
Large collections, small, medium and professionals (real vendors, real guys and gals with full time
jobs doing it, 18 hours a day over worked, and with 1800+ machines or more in their collective
possession [pins, vending, pool, etc])... Its slave labor for their employees, over worked and underpaid,
non technical work cleaning, polishing, moving heavy stuff in trucks... Same for small to medium
vendors, and about the only way it can make any money at all is like VFW or PHoF, and the former
isn't doing it as a job, and the latter is charity no labor costs (for the most part). Sadly, it just doesn't
seem to pan out as a profit maker for anyone other than GaryCo and maybe JJP. The rest are hobby businesses,
and even those two companies sell mostly to hobbyists via distributors, so they too are hobby businesses with
a twist on the meaning.

1 month later
#108 2 years ago

5,998 plays. Only the button fell out this month. New flipper but installed and ready to rock.

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4 weeks later
#109 2 years ago

Nothing wrong at all. 7089 plays. This game seems to be holding up better than any other stern Ive purchased. Metal ramps are cool!

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#110 2 years ago

Might want to replace that magnet core. Could be getting air balls off it.

#111 2 years ago

Quick question and kind of a sidebar, really don't mean to derail your thread...

What is your take on Stern possibly putting a pin on-line? Would you visit less? Of course, not entirely a fair question since you would have to go for other pins not on-line regardless.

#112 2 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Quick question and kind of a sidebar, really don't mean to derail your thread...
What is your take on Stern possibly putting a pin on-line? Would you visit less? Of course, not entirely a fair question since you would have to go for other pins not on-line regardless.

You mean like on the pinball arcade app?

#113 2 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

You mean like on the pinball arcade app?

Not sure what that app is.

There's been a thread here discussing the possibility on Stern's future games being on-line. Maybe automatic code updates, spot a common problem in order to remedy future issues, whatever they see fit, etc. Speculation is routers can track how much money is in the machine, would know about maintenance issues before they went to check on a machine, etc. Even talk of on-line of high score tracking. But on the flip side, Stern could have the inside track of what you're doing, may start to use this as another revenue source, the list goes.

I don't have a dog in this, fight - just was curious how it might affect your business model.

P.S. Thanks for the thread - interesting reading.

#114 2 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Not sure what that app is.
There's been a thread here discussing the possibility on Stern's future games being on-line. Maybe automatic code updates, spot a common problem in order to remedy future issues, whatever they see fit, etc. Speculation is routers can track how much money is in the machine, would know about maintenance issues before they went to check on a machine, etc. Even talk of on-line of high score tracking. But on the flip side, Stern could have the inside track of what you're doing, may start to use this as another revenue source, the list goes.
I don't have a dog in this, fight - just was curious how it might affect your business model.
P.S. Thanks for the thread - interesting reading.

Probably won't affect me at all from the sound of it. Haah!

#115 2 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

5,998 plays. Only the button fell out this month. New flipper but installed and ready to rock.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I remember the first time that happened on a routed game I was playing. I thought I broke something serious. I was relieved when they told me it happens pretty frequently.

1 month later
#116 2 years ago

Nothing broken and no changes to the game at all. Someone at the bar must have reset the nunber of plays so I'll have to add 7089 to that number since that's the last documented number.

New play number is 8,297

Most reliable new game I've gotten from stern.

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#117 2 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

Nothing broken and no changes to the game at all. Someone at the bar must have reset the nunber of plays so I'll have to add 7089 to that number since that's the last documented number.
New play number is 8,297
Most reliable new game I've gotten from stern.
[quoted image][quoted image]

They probably updated the code.

#118 2 years ago

Now they can set new high scores.

1 month later
#119 2 years ago

Alls well and nothing wrong! Havent had to fix anything with this game in a really long time!

And remeber the last count stopped at 7089.

Add 2304 and that comes out to 9393 plays!

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#120 2 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

5,998 plays. Only the button fell out this month. New flipper but installed and ready to rock.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Harbor Freight E clips for less than 10 cents each are tailor-made for the cheap operator that doesn't want to replace a whole flipper button for a couple bucks.

#121 2 years ago

Around what point/plays will you replace the sparky magnet?

#122 2 years ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

Around what point/plays will you replace the sparky magnet?

I guess as soon as it effects game play or before it starts damaging the play field. Whenever it makes sense I suppose!

#123 2 years ago

Please buy black knight 3 and put it in The Bonus Round

#124 2 years ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

Please buy black knight 3 and put it in The Bonus Round

You just might be pleasantly surprised soon!

#125 2 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

I guess as soon as it effects game play or before it starts damaging the play field. Whenever it makes sense I suppose!

Well, your customers may not be complaining about it, but that domed magnet core is affecting game play by making it harder to score a hit on Sparky. Balls going over the top of the magnet with any force at all will go airborne and not break the opto beam in between Sparky's feet. When I had Metallica on location, that Sparky magnet core was removed, and ground flat three times in the first 10,000 plays. It isn't hard to do, just buy one magnet core and keep recycling a fresh one in when it becomes domed over.

2 months later
#126 2 years ago

7089 was last play count before it got reset. Now 4419.

For a total of 11,208 plays. Whoop. Nothing wrong again. This thing is either a tank or super basic and not much to go wrong. Either way it's great for route. I perso2think the game is boring but it doesn't matter what my opinion is lol.

Playfield is becoming super dimpled.

I don't care at all.

Happy with longevity and earning.

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#127 2 years ago

Thanks for posting.
Cha-Ching

#128 2 years ago
Quoted from SuperDaveOsbourn:

The honest truth is what it is, there is little to no money for routing pinball at all, at any level really.
Large collections, small, medium and professionals (real vendors, real guys and gals with full time
jobs doing it, 18 hours a day over worked, and with 1800+ machines or more in their collective
possession [pins, vending, pool, etc])... Its slave labor for their employees, over worked and underpaid,
non technical work cleaning, polishing, moving heavy stuff in trucks... Same for small to medium
vendors, and about the only way it can make any money at all is like VFW or PHoF, and the former
isn't doing it as a job, and the latter is charity no labor costs (for the most part). Sadly, it just doesn't
seem to pan out as a profit maker for anyone other than GaryCo and maybe JJP. The rest are hobby businesses,
and even those two companies sell mostly to hobbyists via distributors, so they too are hobby businesses with
a twist on the meaning.

L O Fucking L

My Deadpool and Ghostbusters combined alone pay my mortgage and utilities monthly...

My Addams and Dracula pay the rest of my life expenses monthly.

Yeah yeah most pinball and arcade games don't do that but some still can hahahahaha!

#129 2 years ago

And they say dimples level out over time.

#130 2 years ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

And they say dimples level out over time.

They Will. Check out this star trek pro with over 30,000 plays. You can read the thread and look at all this pics for proof.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-star-trek-with-4938-plays-pics

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6 months later
#131 1 year ago

any updates on this game?

#132 1 year ago
Quoted from AJB4:

any updates on this game?

I always forget to take pictures. It's honestly the #1 game for reliability we have ever had. A rubber falls off now and there are so few moving parts we don't have to deal with much!

I'll get updates next time

#133 1 year ago

It was at 4,119 last time. Most likely double by now.

#134 1 year ago

Love this thread, it’s cool to see “route life”

4 weeks later
#135 1 year ago

Sorry this thread is so boring. The dang thing never breaks. The only thing that broke since last time was the left flipper button wore out so I replaced it. Took 1 minute.

Since the game plays reset at 7089. I'll round up to 7100 plus 8100 so over 15k plays now.

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#136 1 year ago

I forgot a few pics!

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#137 1 year ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

Sorry this thread is so boring. The dang thing never breaks. The only thing that broke since last time was the left flipper button wore out so I replaced it. Took 1 minute.
Since the game plays reset at 7089. I'll round up to 7100 plus 8100 so over 15k plays now.[quoted image][quoted image]

You are making out on this machine.

2 months later
#138 1 year ago

Looks like you might want to change out your magnet core there in front of Sparky. It looks like it is pretty mushroomed. I change this out periodically on mine. If you have access to a metal lathe the magnet cores are easy to reface and they look new again. Or you can buy a new one for $12 at Pinball Life.

#139 1 year ago
Quoted from ita47:

Looks like you might want to change out your magnet core there in front of Sparky. It looks like it is pretty mushroomed. I change this out periodically on mine. If you have access to a metal lathe the magnet cores are easy to reface and they look new again. Or you can buy a new one for $12 at Pinball Life.

How hard is it to change out?

#140 1 year ago

Curious to how bad the groove is getting at the top of the arch. Since it's a PITA to reach under there, I eventually mylar'd the area on mine. That and the pop bumper exit to the right seem to be the highest wear areas of the game.

#141 1 year ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

How hard is it to change out?

Easy if it's not so deformed it won't come out of the PF Having the right size wrench in a big form helps.. the lock nut can be pretty tough to break free from the factory installation. Tho I find most sterns are easy.. it's the older WMS/BLY ones that seem to have locktite or something on them.

If it's really mushroomed.. you have to push it out through the top of the PF.

#142 1 year ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

How hard is it to change out?

They are not too bad if you have a big wrench to break the locknut free. Once the locknut is free then screw the magnet core up and out the top. Screw the new core back in set the height and snug down the locknut. It’s is best to do before the core gets mushroomed too bad. I have seen some mushroomed so bad they actually dig into the playfield, which causes a lot of damage when you try to remove them. I also highly recommend the carbon fiber Cliffy protectors, I prefer the wider version. And set you magnet height flush with the top of the protector.

#143 1 year ago
Quoted from ita47:

Looks like you might want to change out your magnet core there in front of Sparky. It looks like it is pretty mushroomed. I change this out periodically on mine. If you have access to a metal lathe the magnet cores are easy to reface and they look new again. Or you can buy a new one for $12 at Pinball Life.

I purchased this machine from Okarcades. It is in overall very good shape. I replaced the sparky magnet core last weekend. Here is a picture of the old core and the new one.

20200509_213830 (resized).jpg
#144 1 year ago
Quoted from ita47:

They are not too bad if you have a big wrench to break the locknut free. Once the locknut is free then screw the magnet core up and out the top.

My lock nut came of easy, but I could not break free the core. I was able to budge it by taking the lock nut off of the grave marker magnet, locking both nuts together on the sparky core and moving it with a socket wrench. Once it broke free I was able to screw it out the top without an issue.

#145 1 year ago
Quoted from bernieberg:

My lock nut came of easy, but I could not break free the core. I was able to budge it by taking the lock nut off of the grave marker magnet, locking both nuts together on the sparky core and moving it with a socket wrench. Once it broke free I was able to screw it out the top without an issue.

Glad you got it out. I’ve never had one that tight.

1 month later
#146 1 year ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

Alls well and nothing wrong! Havent had to fix anything with this game in a really long time!
And remeber the last count stopped at 7089.
Add 2304 and that comes out to 9393 plays!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Did you replace the Sparky magnet yet?

#147 1 year ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

Did you replace the Sparky magnet yet?

Yup, one of the first things I did when I got it.

When I got the machine I replaced the sparky magnet core, adjusted the drop targets, cleaned the playfield, and replaced rubbers. Sparkys right foot is broke, so I have to find a way to secure it, otherwise everything is working great.

#148 1 year ago
Quoted from bernieberg:

Yup, one of the first things I did when I got it.
When I got the machine I replaced the sparky magnet core, adjusted the drop targets, cleaned the playfield, and replaced rubbers. Sparkys right foot is broke, so I have to find a way to secure it, otherwise everything is working great.

How many plays on it before you changed it out ?

#149 1 year ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

How many plays on it before you changed it out ?

When I got it Audit #16 was 8470. According to this thread I need to add 7089 to it. So it had 15559 when I got it.

There are 149 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.

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