(Topic ID: 172473)

Documenting entire life of MMR Medieval Madness Remake On Route now 24,233 Plays


By Okarcades

3 years ago



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  • 264 posts
  • 98 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 35 days ago by Okarcades
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#101 2 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

Unfortunately no mylar won't work. I put mylar on the outhole before ever routing it and it's still chipping under the mylar. And that is just from the ball rolling over it.

Interesting. Worked great on the chipping that started on my games. Maybe the chipping just stops after a bit. Shrugs.

#102 2 years ago
Quoted from kapsreiter:

i don't think mylar is a solution
when the ball hits the edge
Cliffy where are you

I'm here. I tried my stern outhole drain on my own MM with not so good results. The semicircle routing of the drain creates a triangular contact area for the ball so it will hang on a slow roll. I have a new design idea though and I'm working on it. Pic attached shows the hang problem. I plan to make one narrower so it doesn't hide the artwork and longer to prevent the hang

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#103 2 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

6,300 plays. is that a lot by 90s B/W standards?

no. I have a NF with a nearly perfect playfield and the counter shows almost 50k plays

#104 2 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

6,300 plays. is that a lot by 90s B/W standards? i have literally no idea. i know there are old EMs with hundreds of thousands on the odometer.
it certainly seems like it's on the high side for a modern game on location these days given the timeframe, but i'm sure it's nothing compared to the beating games used to take.
it's interesting that the thick clearcoat is chipping in a way that i don't remember seeing on 90s B/W games. this same chipping seems to be happening on Stern games too, in the same kinds of places. Is it still happening on JJP playfields? i remember early WOZ games had this problem, too. seems like the manufacturers' quest for more resilient playfields has resulted in an unexpectedly brittle top layer.

Original routed MMs could easily have 40,000 plays on them.

My original routed MM came to me with about 18,000 on it. No chipping anywhere near that bad.

#105 2 years ago

We'll see what mine looks like at 30,000 plays. My Star Trek is at 15,000 plays and seems to be in better condition as far as clear coat.

3 weeks later
#106 2 years ago

Our mmr has over 7000 plays and starting to show its longevity.

1. Left troll bracket broke and head was completely loose, both wires had broken off of switch. We temporarily fixed it with a switch bracket till we order a new troll bracket.

2. Clear coat by left troll chipped, not sure if it was from the broken head hitting it or from natural game play. Either way still not impressed with the clear coat.

3. Location had informed us of the drawbridge making "the castle scream of death" sound. Witch we later traced to a loose screw on the draw bridge motor. The screw that was loose was behind the gears. Made it very difficult to tighten. Disassembleing the gear box enough to access the screw took about 15 min. Tightened it and took about the same amount of time to put back together. Afterwords it still made a little bit of noise but seems to be working itself out.

Overall still fairly happy with this machine. But does not seem to be lasting as good as our stern star trek.

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#107 2 years ago

Thx for the update! I really appreciate these threads.

Maybe it's the optimist in me, but it looks like that MMR is lasting pretty well and is comparable to ST (needs more plays for more data in order to be able to see how it's lasting... and compares) . A broken troll bracket, a minor edge chip and a loose screw doesn't sound like much to me (yet).

As for the troll bracket, that failure caused those other related problems. I don't know if this is a known failure point but since these pieces are the same as MM then that history should tell you if this happens or was a one-off.

Edge chipping seem to be happening on new pinball machines from all the main players; Stern, JJP, PPS/CGC. That new chip is hidden by the troll flap and isn't bothersome to me (yet). ymmv

Loose screws are the bane of pinball machines, but essentially cost free and can never be a problem again with a little blue loctite thread sealant.

I'll be interested to see your further updates and especially as it gets to 14k+ plays, to see how it's lasting.

Cheers!

#108 2 years ago

I'm not too worried yet but the clear is chipping all around the edges of the wood which my Star Trek is not. The main areas of the playfield is pretty much in the same condition on both games.

The earnings have slowed down because I put Attack from Mars right next to it and everyone liked it more! We will see how it plays on a more normal location that doesn't get played 100 times a week or more

#109 2 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

I'm not too worried yet but the clear is chipping all around the edges of the wood which my Star Trek is not. The main areas of the playfield is pretty much in the same condition on both games.
The earnings have slowed down because I put Attack from Mars right next to it and everyone liked it more! We will see how it plays on a more normal location that doesn't get played 100 times a week or more

Afm is awesome and i prefer it also

#110 2 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

I'm not too worried yet but the clear is chipping all around the edges of the wood which my Star Trek is not.

Ya, that edge clear chipping may be hit-and-miss on these new pins, and similarly so from all manufacturers. We need more plays and feedback from the rest of us to really figure out what is happening. Not optimal for sure, but not a big deal "yet" for me on your pin (ymmv). Thx for honestly posting this all and keeping track. I'm watching your Stern's too and enjoy all these pins as well. At least that MMR is earning fast .

LOL on AFM.

#111 2 years ago

I'm not here to make judgements of the quality either, I'm documenting everything I can find that goes wrong and will let the public decide. I will say Star Trek has given me less problems but mmr has more moving parts / toys to possibly break.

#112 2 years ago

wow, that's a lot of $ for two weeks. I might do btwn 50 - 150 every week on my MMR (never a consistent number). btwn all the machines I'm happy if it can cover the cost of buying a new machine or repairs. Its nice being able to have a game on location that actually works the way its supposed to. as far as how much the machine has made after the 50/50 split before taxes and maintenance time, I have the machine close to 3/4 paid off. had the machine on location since 10/2015. my pay schedule was $1 a play for the first 6 months, then I lowered it to 1-1 and 2-3. paid $7995 for an MMR LE from PPS shipping was around 250. the only game that makes the same or more for me is GOT.

The only things I've had go wrong on mine is all three pop bumper brackets have snapped at the same point. two happened during the warranty period and one after. Some of the led' were starting to give out near the slingshots and the troll fell off it's bracket because of loose screws. Used some thread locker. Lastly one of the speakers is starting to give out, I don't even have it that loud maybe on 10 or 11.

I took the machine off location for a month to put on a playfield protector. In my opinion the difference in plays is negligible, the ball has a little bit more spin. Decided to use these on all my machine especially the NIB's. I clean my machines on a regular basis, but even the most vigorous cleanings can't protect the playfield from a small metal ball beating the crap out of it. I even installed a timer on the machines recently so they turn off at 3am and come back on at 10am. tried to put 2 games on one timer that was a huge mistake, think the startup current was to much and it burned up 5 coils and blew two fuses. waiting on the intermatic talento smart timers to come out so I can adjust the times via smart phone. These are fine for now since they auto adjust to daylight savings amazon.com link »

great game.

1 month later
#113 2 years ago

Hadn't seen any updates recently and was wondering how the MMr is holding at the location.

#114 2 years ago

This post inspired me to put an MMR on route. Excited to see your next update. So far I'm about 200 plays in. Long ways to go.

#115 2 years ago

Last seen may 15th so he is still on pinside. Hopefully we get an update soon

1 week later
17
#116 2 years ago

Hey guys! I'm still around but I got married a few days ago and have been very busy with my real job so I haven't gotten a chance to get up there and take pictures or collect and money! I should be up there in about a week so an update will be coming soon!

#117 2 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

Hey guys! I'm still around but I got married a few days ago and have been very busy with my real job so I haven't gotten a chance to get up there and take pictures or collect and money! I should be up there in about a week so an update will be coming soon!

DOOD - Congrats - enjoy!

1 month later
12
#118 2 years ago

Absolutely nothing to complain about this month. 400 more plays and not a single thing has gone wrong. Not even a loose bulb. Just gave it a quick wax and collected the money and got a few games in.

No wear. Nothing broken. Decals are perfect

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#119 2 years ago

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#120 2 years ago

Where is this MMr? Hopefully still in Sioux Falls?

I'm going to be out there next week for work. Would love to drop a few quarters.

#121 2 years ago

Super thread... really good to see how new games wear on location

#122 2 years ago
Quoted from Elicash:

Where is this MMr? Hopefully still in Sioux Falls?
I'm going to be out there next week for work. Would love to drop a few quarters.

It is in Sioux Falls at hydra beer company. There's also an awesome Addams family there too.

#123 2 years ago

I'll be going through Sioux Falls in about six weeks. I'll be sure to donate to the cause.

So, what's the operator scene like in SD? Competative? I've heard that in my area Dakota Music has a mini monopoly going. They supply everything to bars (pool, darts, games, etc) and if any other operator tried to put a game on location, they would pull all their other equipment. Is the Addams yours? If not, how many operators supply to this location? I've been curious about how to break into operating with the goal of supplying the area with some decent pins and then having the machines at the end. Hobby level stuff like what you're doing.

Also, have you identified anything specific about this location that makes it so successful?

#124 2 years ago

Music service has a monopoly on most games. I got lucky enough to find a few places that were new and didn't have music service locked already contracted. I'm on a hobby level and not trying to expand right now. I make a bit of side money and make sure my games are tip top.

#125 2 years ago

Cool thread, I enjoy it. Is that shooter lane damage getting worse and worse? Not sure if you saw a recent thread of someone making a clear polycarbonate to protect an area like this? https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nudies-clear-shooter-lane-eject-protectors

It would be a good test of his product with how many plays you get. But I do not know if he has any for your machine.

3 weeks later
#126 2 years ago

I have one on lease that has over 10K plays and only a few issues so far.....

1 month later
10
#127 2 years ago

Not a dang thing wrong at all except 1 spring in the right flipper needed to be replaced. Easy deal. 9,012 plays now.

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#128 2 years ago

As someone who owns several arcades and is looking at adding pinball, I cannot thank you enough for this thread. It really helped me make my decisions about whether to add pinball and which games to add.

Thanks so much.

#129 2 years ago

I have not read all of this posting but I noticed you are on a 50/50 split. I hate to tell you this but with that split you are losing money. I was a operator from 1969 until 2016. I operated all types of equipment, pool tables, video games, cranes, redemption games, jukeboxes and of course pinball. During that time I learned a lot about the economics of this business. Operating pinballs has changed a great deal. In order to operate pinballs correctly in today's environment you must get at least 80%. I stopped giving the location 50% in 1990. 27 years ago. 5 years ago I went from 80% to 100%. How could I pull that off you ask. The answer is very complicated and too much to go into here. But it can be done. If you or any of the other collectors reading this post want to operate a few pinballs I encourage you to do so. But don't think you are making money with a 50/50 split. Take a good hard look at your true expenses. If you want to operate a few pinballs for fun, great. If you want to operate to make money be careful. If true operators ever decide to start operating pinballs again you as the little guy don't stand a chance. Most operators are shrewd and tough businessmen. My post probably sounds arrogant and as if I am a know it all. I hope you all don't take it that way. Believe it or not I'm on your side. I got into the amusement business because I love pinball. I operated the other equipment because I had to in order to compete. Ok I did enjoy operating jukeboxes. I 'll follow this thread for a little while (going to Expo without a computer) and try to answer any questions with short responses. Thanks for reading.

#130 2 years ago
Quoted from fingersport:

If true operators ever decide to start operating pinballs again you as the little guy don't stand a chance. Most operators are shrewd and tough businessmen.

I have a friend who is one of the largest operators in Minnesota, if not THE largest. Your second sentence in the quote above seems to be the reason why true operators (those who do it for a full time living) will NOT get back into pinball anytime soon. At least from talking to him, the labor cost of maintaining and repairing just do not make business sense, when redemption or other non-pinball machines can rake in the cash at a fraction of the labor costs. That seems to be why small "side hobby" operators have sprung up all over the country. Many feel that they don't mind spending 10-15+ hours a week working for less than minimum wage hourly rate, because it's a hobby and passion for them. As a collector and route player, I can tell you that I am glad those people are out there, or we wouldn't have many pins at all on route.

#131 2 years ago
Quoted from lancestorm:

Cool thread, I enjoy it. Is that shooter lane damage getting worse and worse? Not sure if you saw a recent thread of someone making a clear polycarbonate to protect an area like this? https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nudies-clear-shooter-lane-eject-protectors
It would be a good test of his product with how many plays you get. But I do not know if he has any for your machine.

As an alternative, I recently completed a Black Knight playfield swap, I had an issue with the cliffy for the shooter lane, my fault as I did not install it correctly so the ball would not pop up 100% of the time, I now have a custom cut piece of 3M clear auto bra type material in my shooter lane and I really like it. The material has a bit of a cushion. I also use this 3M material on my LOTR Palantir target as I have a custom decal and with just laminate the metal piece in the middle was wearing through. So far so good. Based on this thread, if I purchased a NIB MMR I would consider installing custom cut 3M pieces in the shooter lane, trough and around the perimeter of the Merlin hole and locktite on those darn Troll brackets.

#132 2 years ago

Pinzap, I agree with your comment about operators not keeping the pins on location in proper working order. I and a few other operators around the country were the exception. However operators are starting to take notice of the return to pinball by players. They know how much money it takes to operate each game in a location. When the amount of money in the cash box exceeds the cost to operate they will be back. By the way, we arrived at that point about 3 years ago. So why are they not operating many pinballs today? Simple, the 50/50 split. I talked to a operator today. He's on a 80/20 split. Is he making money. Yes. Should he be taking 100%? Yes. Why? Its a better business model. For him and the location. When I would talk to a location about pinball I would tell them to think of me (my equipment) like a band that they would have come in to generate customer traffic. I would ask them "do you want the Rolling Stone, Led Zepplin, Metalica, or do you want Al's Garage Band. In order to give them top equipment and rotate a new game in every 60 to 90 days I need 100%. The 20 to 50 per cent they give up means nothing to them. They made way more money on the customer traffic the games generated. If you ask a full line distributor they will tell you the same thing.

2 weeks later
#133 2 years ago

Your theory of taking 100% is good. In real life it doesn't work. My locations that I split 50/50 are the best and anything less than 50% for that location and they would just buy their own games.

It's easy to say 100% is better than 50% but in my market it just doesn't work like that.

I'd rather have 50% of a great market than 100% of nothing.

#134 2 years ago

If the location is getting 0% then they are losing money. Space and electricity. That's why it doesn't work and if it does then that 100% is far less than what my 50% at a great location makes.

#135 2 years ago

I love both of your machine threads....they are my favorite of Pinside.

#136 2 years ago

The game works perfectly! The clear coat chipping has stopped and it's only on the edges. I'm not worried about it any more.

The bill acceptor and one coin mech bit the dust before anything else in the game. I need to swap them next week since I totally forgot them this week.

Other than that I'm happy as heck and the game is at 9,746 plays so far!

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#137 2 years ago

Nice! Thx for the updates.

I'm still looking forward to the eventual 14K play comparo to ST.

Cheers

#138 2 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

The game works perfectly! The clear coat chipping has stopped and it's only on the edges. I'm not worried about it any more.
The bill acceptor and one coin mech bit the dust before anything else in the game. I need to swap them next week since I totally forgot them this week.
Other than that I'm happy as heck and the game is at 9,746 plays so far!

If its a Mars, MEI bill acceptor we are a service center for them if you want to send it in for repair we can fix it.

JJ

#139 2 years ago
Quoted from Gexchange:

If its a Mars, MEI bill acceptor we are a service center for them if you want to send it in for repair we can fix it.

Ya I'd like that. I have another I can toss it. The problem is every dollar only gives 1 pulse instead of 4. Doesn't matter what the dip switch settings are it only gives 1 pulse.

#140 2 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

Ya I'd like that. I have another I can toss it. The problem is every dollar only gives 1 pulse instead of 4. Doesn't matter what the dip switch settings are it only gives 1 pulse.

Can you Change the pricing setup in the game to work with that? I'm not sure it has a setting for bill acceptor only.

Let me ask me MEI guy about that

JJ

#141 2 years ago
Quoted from Gexchange:

Can you Change the pricing setup in the game to work with that? I'm not sure it has a setting for bill acceptor only.
Let me ask me MEI guy about that
JJ

Is it Interment or all the time that is pulses 1? My guys says likely the credit relay on the board.

#142 2 years ago
Quoted from Gexchange:

Is it Interment or all the time that is pulses 1? My guys says likely the credit relay on the board.

No matter what I set it up as its only 1 pulse - 1 Pulse Doesn't work because I have a coin mech and I have the game set up for $1.

#143 2 years ago
Quoted from Okarcades:

No matter what I set it up as its only 1 pulse - 1 Pulse Doesn't work because I have a coin mech and I have the game set up for $1.

Send that puppy in.. If you need we have advanced replacements

#144 2 years ago
Quoted from Gexchange:

Send that puppy in.. If you need we have advanced replacements

I have a few spares! Ill get it in the mail after I pull it from the game

#145 2 years ago

Great thread. This and your ST one are really cool. Thanks for keeping us updated.

#146 2 years ago

Very interesting hearing about the operation side. Coming from a position of ignorance I'd assume a big difference in operating today is that you could operate a machine like MMr for 4 or 5 years even and then sell if for not to much less than what you originally purchased it for? Back in the 80's and 90's you might be taking a big hit on the value after a few years compared to what you paid NIB? Then I guess depreciation comes into the equation with tax etc.

#147 2 years ago

this thread is fantastic. such a boon to have long-term public data like this. a few observations:

1. what is up with modern clearcoats? they seem to do an excellent job of not wearing through to wood, but they chip like crazy around any edge or hole! seems to be common between every current manufacturer, and unlike whatever clear they used up through the 90s, which would usually wear down a groove or rounded edge around holes, but not chip like that.

2. that playfield looks bumpy as hell! i have listened to people complain about dimples, and listened to people with tons more experience than i repeatedly reassure people that they will even out over time. i admit i probably leaned towards trusting their insight, but after almost 10,000 plays, this playfield just looks like the surface of a golf ball. if THIS game shows zero sign of this "evening out" process, then none of our games ever will.

closeup of this playfield:
https://images.pinside.com/a/8c/b5/a8cb539778ca34cbc9e5131bad338feb19f5fea6.jpg

3. on the positive side, this should put to rest some of the more apocalyptic pronouncements about the engineering behind the remakes, saying that giant board wouldn't last, or that the game was not up to professional standards. it seems to be holding up about as well as a normal pin would.

#148 2 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

2. that playfield looks bumpy as hell! i have listened to people complain about dimples, and listened to people with tons more experience than i repeatedly reassure people that they will even out over time. i admit i probably leaned towards trusting their insight, but after almost 10,000 plays, this playfield just looks like the surface of a golf ball. if THIS game shows zero sign of this "evening out" process, then none of our games ever will.

Patience Grasshopper

#149 2 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

what is up with modern clearcoats? they seem to do an excellent job of not wearing through to wood, but they chip like crazy around any edge or hole! seems to be common between every current manufacturer, and unlike whatever clear they used up through the 90s, which would usually wear down a groove or rounded edge around holes, but not chip like that.

maybe curing time? perhaps wms let the fields sit around for a bit longer than the new manufacturers.

#150 2 years ago

I'm thinking it is EPA regulation related.

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