(Topic ID: 337100)

Doctor Who vs. Whitewater

By steely_menace

1 year ago


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Topic poll

“Which pin is more fun?”

  • Doctor Who (1992) 35 votes
    27%
  • Whitewater (1993) 93 votes
    73%

(128 votes)

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WH20 (resized).jpg
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There are 61 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 1 year ago

IMHO, two of the best pins from 1992/1993. I’ve owned a Whitewater for over 10 years. In fact, it was my second pin (after Attack From Mars) and hasn’t left my collection. I recently picked up a really nice Doctor Who.

Before I share my thoughts, I’d thought I’d put it out there… for playability, fun and longevity, which pin do you like better and why?

#2 1 year ago

I love Doctor Who, the classic series. Mostly the Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker era. Its a good pin but should have been a great pin. So much material to use but the game focuses on the Daleks which makes for a lot of awful audio and they were some of the weaker story lines imo. I would think WH2O's more lackadaisical theme has more longevity. Ive owned both and would buy them both again.

#3 1 year ago

Well. The only thing that counts is what you think

For me, it’s WH20 by as far as you can go.

Dr Who has the record of being the game I purchased and sold the fastest. I enjoyed it until I owned it.

I’ve had WH2O for 15 years at least.

#4 1 year ago

Loops/Sonic Booms are just too valuable in Doctor Whom; overshadows the rest for me. Plus the audio is a little grating.

Wh20 easy for me

#5 1 year ago

Take a wild guess which one I'd go for. They're both awesome, but Doctor Who Is just too fun.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Loops/Sonic Booms are just too valuable in Doctor Whom; overshadows the rest for me. Plus the audio is a little grating.
Wh20 easy for me

You score a ton on jackpots. You score a ton on video mode. And yes, you score on those sweet sweet sonic booms. You can honestly do well with any of those strategies.

#7 1 year ago

I voted White H2O, but the Doctor was a close second.

#8 1 year ago

I like both. Good 3rd flipper action on opposite sides and each one is a nice compliment to my BSD. They are the only 3 B/W games I have the space for at the moment.

Pinsound with upgraded speakers is a must for Doctor Who.

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#9 1 year ago

Wow, great insight so far!

What I like about Doctor Who is the many ways to play it:
- Go for the O Ramp all day long
- Spell W-H-O and get the extra ball
- Go for multi-ball and shoot for Daleks
- Hit the Escape Targets and go for Video modes (video mode is pretty fun)

Repeating on the O-Ramp is still a thrill! -- the pin has to be set-up properly. Also, it is not a game for novices ‘cause the side outlanes are brutal! Also, it has lightning flippers.

What I like about White Water:
- Has great sense of humor and an excellent sound package
- Great ramps!
- Also, many ways to play it with the different modes: trying to 5x Playfield the multiball, or utilizing the various modes

I put a ColorDMD in both, and it really compliments the video mode in Doctor Who. Not necessary in White Water, but still an improvement. I also put in a PinSound sound, upgraded speakers, and added a stereo cable. Highly recommended upgrade for both! Doctor Who has some great community sound packages!

Still in the honeymoon phase with Doctor Who, and it has one of the best toys in all of pinball! (Not related to playability, but White Water does have a better topper and an iconic backglass!)

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Plus the audio is a little grating.

To say the least. Have owned both, sold the Doctor, and while I do miss the game, I don't miss that terrible audio.

#11 1 year ago

This isn't a fair fight, white water all the way. I like Dr who, but white water is classic.

#12 1 year ago

White Water for the win, and it’s not even close.

WH2O has (albeit subjectively) better flow, rules, music, and art. Multiple strategies, and quite a bit of depth.

#13 1 year ago

I have owned both for a while. No way WH2O does not kill this poll. It is considered an A title for its era. DW to me is a sleeper title from the 90's. It's like I500 ,as it isn not overly valued, but a lot of fun.

-6
#14 1 year ago

Doctor Who is ugly as hell and there isn't much to do. Had a chance to buy another one and passed. One of B/W's fails.

#15 1 year ago

3 years ago I would’ve said white water. But now, I’m 100% for Who.

Once you make the loops harder to make and change a couple other settings, the game is very balanced on scoring, and very challenging.

White water is two shots over and over again. While fun, it’s one of my least favorite games to play in a tournament, and I typically skip it if I’m on location.

#16 1 year ago

Having played both and enjoy both. White Water is limited in the fun factor. I am a biased Doctor Who fan of both the series and the pinball. Dr Who has a complex set of rules that many do not want to get invested in learning. White Water is geared more for the just play and hit the silver ball (both on PF and upper MPF. Dr Who has so many levels of play. Sure the Ramp shot multiplies the score, but that is only one way for those desiring scores. Playing the video screen is one aspect. Repeating the 3 levels of MPF for multi-balls is another. A color DMD, a Pinsound+ with 12 Doctors sound track, a shaker motor, a motorized Dalek Topper are all the way to go. How can a static lit WH2O topper be a better than a moving talking flashing light Dalek robot??? Those that are DW haters like simple play and just bashing flippers. Dr Who is also a complex Mechanical nightmare for those not willing to keep up with repairs. The motor unit that operates the MPF really needs the help of the ULF smooth lifter kit. Older not maintained units that have caked old grease or worn rollers cause many issues. The multiple Optos are another maintenance item that needs replacing as the Optos age (like any light bulb). Both games as well as any WPC game suffers resets from aging boards and low voltage issues. The GI circuit can also cause melted connectors. The original sound boards were so bad they updated them in future machines.

On the happy side, the OP has too great games to enjoy!

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#17 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Once you make the loops harder to make

Lightning 3rd flipper?

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

3 years ago I would’ve said white water. But now, I’m 100% for Who.
Once you make the loops harder to make and change a couple other settings, the game is very balanced on scoring, and very challenging.
White water is two shots over and over again. While fun, it’s one of my least favorite games to play in a tournament, and I typically skip it if I’m on location.

Mind sharing HUW yours is set up.

Love my DW, and would probably take it over w20. DW is not the most complex, but the things it does, it does amazingly well. Maybe one of the best combo/flow set ups IMO (the W-H-O shot) And with the time expander you get 3 different playfields in 1!

That said WH20 is one of the next on my list, but I wouldn’t sell DW to get it.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from sunnRAT:

Lightning 3rd flipper?

I adjusted the flipper so it sits off the guide a tiny bit. You have to hit the ball on the end of the flipper to make the loop. Very small margin for error.

At first I had it too far off the wall and make the loop almost impossible. This way is better imo. The best players can get 30-50 loops maybe, but nobody is getting 100s of loops anymore and it makes some players consider other options.

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#20 1 year ago

Have both in the lineup. Great games!

#21 1 year ago

Yeah, WhiteWater does seem to be winning the poll.

For WhiteWater, the recommended pitch (6.5 degrees) is so important for the game -- more so than other games. And, also important is how the ball shoots out of the scoop! I used to be able to catch it from the right flipper consistently, but it made the game (i.e. Whirlpool mode) a bit too easy. So now, the coil is more powerful so there's the right amount of chaos.

For Doctor Who, I found that I liked the pin a little steeper than the recommended pitch (in my room set-up, anyway). I spent a lot of time levelling it, trying to get the O-ramp just right.

(I also put "Good scores and Great scores" tags on my pins for new players so they have an idea what to aim for. For Doctor Who, I put 120 million and 200 million + for those scores, and WhiteWater has 90 million and 150 million +.)
DoctorWho (resized).jpgDoctorWho (resized).jpgWH20 (resized).jpgWH20 (resized).jpg

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

White water is two shots over and over again.

I'm surprised to hear this. I always thought White Water's rules does a really great job incentivizing all shots on the playfield.

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

I'm surprised to hear this. I always thought White Water's rules does a really great job incentivizing all shots on the playfield.

I stay on the upper playfield all day and most copies I can get 500-700 million fairly easily if the 5x playfield arrives timely. You don’t even need to shoot River stand ups if always going through the lit inlanes.

Yeah you can make the scoop kickout gnarly, but the game is less fun that way.

White water is one of those games that’s either too easy, or so hard it’s not fun anymore.

#24 1 year ago

I've owned both games in the past and don't really miss either of them. If I were to get one back it would probably be DW just because the game feels more balanced and it's more challenging. I don't think either is worth the current prices. I think WH20 is a fun game for casuals/guests but I found it too easy/repetitive when I owned it. I was getting Vacation Jackpot pretty regularly and for big scores the game was all dependent on getting the 5X playfield stack.

#25 1 year ago

Dr. Who is a great game and much easier to shop. Whitewater is a much better game and much harder to shop.

#26 1 year ago

White Water +1
We’ve owned 4 DW’s (and sold them all within a year or two of each purchase) and our one and only WH2O which we picked up around 15 years ago is still hanging strong in the game room.
DW is definitely a good game IMO though.

#27 1 year ago

I was so psyched to restore a WH20, then once it was finished and I started it up it hollered “HOWDY PARTNER” and started up some of the worst pinball music I have ever heard. Guess I’m the past is only played in noisy arcades or shows, but damn!
It’s certainly fun and “feels” like the theme, but I bored of it pretty quickly, which really surprised me. Another “grail” I could never afford for myself that I was able to let go of once I had one in the shop.

I’ve only played DW at shows or on location so who knows if it would hold up for me if I had one here, but I love that it builds on the PinBot mechanism so satisfyingly, the side ramp to flipper combo is terrific, and it really drew me in just by way of casual play and trying to figure out the shots. I’ve never played it and understood what I was doing, but again, it was at shows and the like when I did play it.

Current prices on both are insane if you ask me. Whitewater requires substantial maintenance and cleaning, and there are a lock of boat anchors out there selling at prices that are divorced from any grounded definition of value. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

White water is two shots over and over again.

Three shots surely… got to get on the upper playfield first.

Both DW and WW reflect the fairly simple rules and playfields of the era. Both have scoring exploits that limit what you shoot for. I sold DW pretty quickly even though I’m a big fan of the theme.

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from 7oxford:

Three shots surely… got to get on the upper playfield first.

Shot to the VUK, VUK feeds upper flipper, shoot whirlpool or waterfall ramp. Two shots. Repeat.

And don’t call me Shirley.

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

and started up some of the worst pinball music I have ever heard.

Gotta make your way down the river! Every raft adds an instrument and by the time you’re at Wet Willies, the music cranks!

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

Gotta make your way down the river! Every raft adds an instrument and by the time you’re at Wet Willies, the music cranks!

Yeah, the music in WH20 is great. The only problem I have with the sound is the "waterfall" sound effect that sounds more like static than water.

While I do like the DW machine, WH20 is so much better...

#32 1 year ago

Wh20 is a game I wish I could love more. I just get bored. I’d like to play a well maintained one.

DW is super fun. Not deep, but satisfying. Plus I’m a huge fan of the sounds.

#33 1 year ago

Owned both briefly.

Both are limited in the fun and get old fast.

I prefer 50 others over WW and DrW all day.

Can we get a third option to vote on? lol

#34 1 year ago

Tough crowd here! I have a WH20 and have enjoyed it for years. I have no plans to sell it anytime soon. I think it is one of the better 90s classics.

#35 1 year ago

Dr. Who is 0ne of the best games from the early 90s

#36 1 year ago

I had no delusions that Doctor Who would get smoked in this poll, as White Water is incredible, but I'm sorry to see a few people dunking on it. It is such a fantastic experience. I love that there really is no "end" of it. You keep going and scoring incrementally more points the farther you get. Love it love it love it.

#37 1 year ago
Quoted from Doctor6:

I love that there really is no "end" of it. You keep going and scoring incrementally more points the farther you get.

That’s key. I had a TOTAN here for a couple years, it was on extended loan from a friend who knew it was a Grail for me.
I got so bored with it! It’s still a gorgeous machine, and the flow is great, I still love those things about it, but man, getting to the genie, losing, and then just starting back from square one? Or, just as bad, beating the genie and then just being all “well, I guess I’m finished now”, lol.

If I was gonna invest in a 90s pin, Dr.Who is a top contender. Up there with Judge Dredd and No Fear for me. (If No Fear had a cooler theme or said STAR WARS on it it would probably be more of an “A-List” game at this point!)

#38 1 year ago

If I had a billion dollars and was adding another to the lineup? Whitewater all day long. I think it is more fun and the theme does more for me. I like the skill shot (even if you can do it 50 times) the upper playfield, the multiball locks, and the ramps are fun. Doctor Who has lots to do on it and the toys are neat.

However... I could have left the Allentown show with a $4,000 Doctor Who, whereas Whitewaters go for $7,500+. Is Whitewater more fun than Doctor Who? Yes! Is it twice as much fun as a Doctor Who? No!

Doctor Who is a much better return on investment in fun for your dollar.

If you have more funds than space: Whitewater. If you have more space than funds and/or Doctor Who hits your nostalgia button, go Doctor Who. Both are good games.

#39 1 year ago

Oh WH2O. All day long. Mine is not moving. Love the upper compared to most out there.

#40 1 year ago

If I play both in a tournament, I do better on who than white water my last score on who was 18M

#41 1 year ago
Quoted from FalconDriver:

Oh WH2O. All day long. Mine is not moving. Love the upper compared to most out there.

The upper is lacking, yes you can hit the glass with the upper but 3 shots really?

#42 1 year ago
Quoted from Bmad21:

The upper is lacking, yes you can hit the glass with the upper but 3 shots really?

Yea I know but it is what it is. Still prefer.

#43 1 year ago
Quoted from Doctor6:

I had no delusions that Doctor Who would get smoked in this poll, as White Water is incredible, but I'm sorry to see a few people dunking on it. It is such a fantastic experience. I love that there really is no "end" of it. You keep going and scoring incrementally more points the farther you get. Love it love it love it.

Honestly, considering the lemmings mentality the Top 100 has, I am shocked DW is doing as well as it is.

#44 1 year ago

3 shots you can beat a bunch of C scrubs in WH20...which is the same number as Doctor Whom.
For me the technical aspect of it is funner on Wh20 in tournament but God damn I live shooting some Sonic Booms.
At home you gotta use us more of the PF of WH20.

Funny though they are similar with their cramped PFs.

Never owned a DW, so mostly just loops for me and them you back into a few MBs.

Edit: question is Lightening flippers on either...both?

#45 1 year ago

Lighting flippers on Doctor Who.

#46 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

3 shots you can beat a bunch of C scrubs in WH20...which is the same number as Doctor Whom.
For me the technical aspect of it is funner on Wh20 in tournament but God damn I live shooting some Sonic Booms.
At home you gotta use us more of the PF of WH20.
Funny though they are similar with their cramped PFs.
Never owned a DW, so mostly just loops for me and them you back into a few MBs.
Edit: question is Lightening flippers on either...both?

DW bottom flippers stock I think.

#47 1 year ago

Yeah I think DW Shipped with lightening installed but I can ne4ver remember if it was designed that way. FT def designed with normal Flippers.

WH20 has nothing to do with lightening flippers but a lot of people put them on.

#48 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Yeah I think DW Shipped with lightening installed but I can ne4ver remember if it was designed that way. FT def designed with normal Flippers.
WH20 has nothing to do with lightening flippers but a lot of people put them on.

DW was released the month prior to FT, so I don't think they were designed with it in mind. The story always seems to go with FT as the 1st though so I am curious as well.

#49 1 year ago

The story from Barry Ousler on lightning flippers, was that a European distributor wanted more revenue and less game time. The game was originally designed with normal size flippers. But was shipped with lightning bottom flippers and a normal size upper left flipper.

#50 1 year ago

My understanding is NO game was actually specifically designed for it, but they added them per request of an overseas distributor on BSD, FT and DW.

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