(Topic ID: 76377)

Doctor Who Owners Club.....Time Lords Welcome!

By HoakyPoaky

10 years ago


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#3951 3 years ago

Here is a ready to use Cricut for the opto shield template with scoring built in so it's super easy to fold! Based on Scott Garret's PDF template.

https://design.cricut.com/landing/project-detail/5e89ee21de49110b747b7020
Opto Carrier Doctor Who (resized).pngOpto Carrier Doctor Who (resized).png

#3952 3 years ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

The diode check on many meters should help determine if that bridge is ok. While those large caps can definitely age I don’t usually see any of those bridges fail unless overfused. I think it was mentioned that it was slightly overfused. Even so if the higher value fuse was less than the current rating of the bridge then there is a good chance it’s ok.
If you replace the caps be careful not to damage the board or through hole plating. Safest method I’ve found is add extra fresh solder on each lead so there is plenty for heat transfer. Then use TWO irons and heat up both leads. Have a helper pull the cap. You can use the desolder station and solder wick to clean up afterwards. Same goes for the Large two caps on the sound board. So far I’ve never had any issues this way.
I’ve fixed a few driver boards and a lot of the sound boards. On those with prior work almost all were damaged when someone had tried to recap or install bridges. The leads on the caps are often press fit and even trying to desolder first the plating gets ripped out. Doesn’t seem to happen using the two irons method.

I really like the idea of 2 irons!

Ive been pre-heating with my hot air station and then using my vacuum station for solder removal.
Then hot air again for removal on large caps and bridges with the assistance of an iron to heat the leads directly.

Hot air is nice as I can gently warm both sides while taping off to protect the rest of the components with red tape. 350 degrees seems gentle enough.

#3953 3 years ago

Update: On a hunch, I rechecked my voltages at J118-2(Grey/Y wire) 14 volts

Opto interface Board J3-2 (Grey/Y from J118-2) 3.9 volts. So, I will be replacing that wire, since I have resistance in it.

Also, can someone confirm this plug, it is a 2 port plug, which has Black and Grey/Yellow and is tied to J118. Mine only has a Black coming out of the one side.
20200405_134235 (resized).jpg20200405_134235 (resized).jpg

#3954 3 years ago

That black and grey connector is the same on mine. Only the 1 black wire coming out. No idea where it goes...

#3955 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

That black and grey connector is the same on mine. Only the 1 black wire coming out. No idea where it goes...

I figured it was for an extra plug n play connector that was to be added later.

#3956 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I really like the idea of 2 irons!
Ive been pre-heating with my hot air station and then using my vacuum station for solder removal.
Then hot air again for removal on large caps and bridges with the assistance of an iron to heat the leads directly.
Hot air is nice as I can gently warm both sides while taping off to protect the rest of the components with red tape. 350 degrees seems gentle enough.

I've used my hot air station to remove some other components but two irons and a helper to pull out the caps has worked the best so far. It helps adding a bit of additional fresh solder first to help with heat transfer.

#3957 3 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Opto interface Board J3-2 (Grey/Y from J118-2) 3.9 volts

On the opto board
Definitely should be 12v there and at J118-2, maybe run a long jumper to test it out?

The little 2 wire connector looks like its just a termination/splice point.

I wonder what one could hook up there?
Is it coded in the software?
20200405_163707 (resized).jpg20200405_163707 (resized).jpg

#3958 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

Here is a picture of the original (broken) plastics I had on my Dr Who. As well as the pinball center versions.
I'll post scans of the ministry of pinball ones when I get them.
Notice the pinball center versions are missing part number and the colors are slightly different.
Color differences could be due to age...
[quoted image]

The plastic itself will yellow with age so maybe the original blue will start to turn to a teal perhaps. They don't look to bad lying flat. The ones I bought from marco look good too. Its when they are installed and back- lit that you see the difference. I put a blue led underneath and that helps.

#3959 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

On the opto board
Definitely should be 12v there and at J118-2, maybe run a long jumper to test it out?
The little 2 wire connector looks like its just a termination/splice point.
I wonder what one could hook up there?
Is it coded in the software?
[quoted image]

I know 12 volts but nope. I have new wire ordered, I am going to run a jumper this week, but I am pretty sure this wire is the problem all along.

Just had to keep digging. It was odd, because all my notes had all the voltages being correct and I just kept coming back to this wire as being the main source of the issue. Crazy how ya get a feeling and sure enough, you get the data to prove it out.

Well, if you needed to pick up 12 volts for a mod, that is a spot.

#3960 3 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

I know 12 volts but nope. I have new wire ordered, I am going to run a jumper this week, but I am pretty sure this wire is the problem all along.
Just had to keep digging. It was odd, because all my notes had all the voltages being correct and I just kept coming back to this wire as being the main source of the issue. Crazy how ya get a feeling and sure enough, you get the data to prove it out.
Well, if you needed to pick up 12 volts for a mod, that is a spot.

I feel your pain lol.

I found so many bad wires and connectors during my restore.

I finally broke down and ohmed out every single wire and connector in the game.

Its way easy when the harness is out of the game!

Digging into a mounted attached harness is a nightmare and the manual schematics are often not up to date with the production models.

Just today a pinsider located a wire that Im missing on a flood damaged Funhouse Im restoring now.

Ive been puzzling on it for 2 weeks and it turns out that my game never had the wire in the first place!

Lots of fun....

#3961 3 years ago

Is there a trick to get perfect Mylar adherence? My biggest issue is the edges don’t fully stick down.

FF2CAEE3-D5D1-4D5D-8B55-8CB5C3559AD9 (resized).jpegFF2CAEE3-D5D1-4D5D-8B55-8CB5C3559AD9 (resized).jpeg
#3962 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

Is there a trick to get perfect Mylar adherence? My biggest issue is the edges don’t fully stick down.[quoted image]

Did you clean the surface with alcohol first?

I use rapid prep application fluid.

Warm it with a hair dryer and firmly roll it down or rub it with a brayer.

I use a felt squeegee.

Pop any bubbles with a new exacto knife tip.

Really push on it but dont mar it.

Any left over areas roll down with the ball later.

#3963 3 years ago

Didn’t do alcohol but it was waxed a few times with blitz carnuba, let me look up that application fluid

#3964 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

Didn’t do alcohol but it was waxed a few times with blitz carnuba, let me look up that application fluid

waxing is to keep it from sticking on old school painted surfaces

Waxing does not apply to clearcoat. Dont do it. Freeze spray removes old mylar from clearcoat easily.

make a new mylar, remove all the wax with naptha or ronson liquid lighter fluid.

Clean it with alcohol.

Stick it down with an application fluid (rapid-tac, ammonia free windex, soap and water etc).

Warm it with a hair dryer, firmly roll or squeegee it down. remove all air bubbles. rub it down until its mostly dry.

Let it dry, warm it again and roll it down again.

When cutting mylar dont use scissors they roll the edges. Use a mylar cutter or brand new exacto knife.

#3965 3 years ago

Will do! I just ordered that rapid-tac application fluid, seems to have very good reviews.

#3966 3 years ago

So I went from two of the opto buttons on my MPF 5 mushroom target to none working after swapping out to the pindorabox new opto boards.

The interesting thing is, on the old and even the new opto boards I could never see anything in the LED's using my camera.

They should have glown blue like i've seen in the photos.

They light up right away when you power on the machine right? I went into switch test, and they still weren't lit up when viewed from a phone camera.

I've tested continuity from the connector on the MPF to the end points on the pindora boards to make sure the solder connections are good and all the E1-E5, C and A1-A5 markings on the old boards matched up to the new pindorabox boards so I wired them the same way as the old.

My guess at this point is that it's the 10 optobank board I need to swap out.

BTW, i'm testing this by hooking only the 5 bank opto cable back up to the unit, everything else is still disconnected from the MPF if that matters...

Thoughts?

#3967 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

So I went from two of the opto buttons on my MPF 5 mushroom target to none working after swapping out to the pindorabox new opto boards.
The interesting thing is, on the old and even the new opto boards I could never see anything in the LED's using my camera.
They should have glown blue like i've seen in the photos.
They light up right away when you power on the machine right? I went into switch test, and they still weren't lit up when viewed from a phone camera.
I've tested continuity from the connector on the MPF to the end points on the pindora boards to make sure the solder connections are good and all the E1-E5, C and A1-A5 markings on the old boards matched up to the new pindorabox boards so I wired them the same way as the old.
My guess at this point is that it's the 10 optobank board I need to swap out.
BTW, i'm testing this by hooking only the 5 bank opto cable back up to the unit, everything else is still disconnected from the MPF if that matters...
Thoughts?

Yes you only need to plug in the opto carrier 12 pin cable.

It doesnt even have to be mounted on the MPF.

Check continuity all the way from the opto carrier boards thru to the 10 opto board connector

If you have no lights on rhe emitters, check for 12v at the 10 opto board and at J118-2 and at +12 on the carrier opto boards.

The schematic is helpful here.

#3968 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

So I went from two of the opto buttons on my MPF 5 mushroom target to none working after swapping out to the pindorabox new opto boards.
The interesting thing is, on the old and even the new opto boards I could never see anything in the LED's using my camera.
They should have glown blue like i've seen in the photos.
They light up right away when you power on the machine right? I went into switch test, and they still weren't lit up when viewed from a phone camera.
I've tested continuity from the connector on the MPF to the end points on the pindora boards to make sure the solder connections are good and all the E1-E5, C and A1-A5 markings on the old boards matched up to the new pindorabox boards so I wired them the same way as the old.
My guess at this point is that it's the 10 optobank board I need to swap out.
BTW, i'm testing this by hooking only the 5 bank opto cable back up to the unit, everything else is still disconnected from the MPF if that matters...
Thoughts?

Opto emitters light up clearly on my phone camera, recievers do not light up.

I replaced my 10 opto board with the homepin one.

It has socketed chips and a power on led.

#3969 3 years ago

Getting 14.7v to J3-2 on the Opto 10 Board, and 13.9v on the J2-9 output to the 5 carrier opto board. Will check continuity on everything after.

#3970 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

Getting 14.7v to J3-2 on the Opto 10 Board, and 13.9v on the J2-9 output to the 5 carrier opto board. Will check continuity on everything after.

See these boards worry me. If 2 were working on his old boards, then 2 should work on the new boards. I ran into the same issue with Pindorabox boards. Did not work for me. I even tried them on my bench and could not get them to work, so I gave up.

#3971 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

So I went from two of the opto buttons on my MPF 5 mushroom target to none working after swapping out to the pindorabox new opto boards.
The interesting thing is, on the old and even the new opto boards I could never see anything in the LED's using my camera.
They should have glown blue like i've seen in the photos.
They light up right away when you power on the machine right? I went into switch test, and they still weren't lit up when viewed from a phone camera.
I've tested continuity from the connector on the MPF to the end points on the pindora boards to make sure the solder connections are good and all the E1-E5, C and A1-A5 markings on the old boards matched up to the new pindorabox boards so I wired them the same way as the old.
My guess at this point is that it's the 10 optobank board I need to swap out.
BTW, i'm testing this by hooking only the 5 bank opto cable back up to the unit, everything else is still disconnected from the MPF if that matters...
Thoughts?

Can you take a pic of your new boards, I am curious to see them, since mine had same labeling for both boards.

20200203_144627 (resized).jpg20200203_144627 (resized).jpg
#3972 3 years ago

Yeah, the labeling is messed up on these boards. One one side they have the E1-E5 labels, but then on the back side they have what appears to be the proper labels. I went with the back side labels instead and soldered everything based on the backside labels. Who knows, if the labels are wrong on the front side, the labels might be wrong on the back side too.

IMG_0299 (resized).jpgIMG_0299 (resized).jpgIMG_0300 (resized).jpgIMG_0300 (resized).jpgIMG_0301 (resized).jpgIMG_0301 (resized).jpg
#3973 3 years ago

I just messaged the pindorabox folks to look at page 80 of this forum now that we have multiple people having problems with these boards.

#3974 3 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Can you take a pic of your new boards, I am curious to see them, since mine had same labeling for both boards.[quoted image]

Quoted from Xantari:

Yeah, the labeling is messed up on these boards. One one side they have the E1-E5 labels, but then on the back side they have what appears to be the proper labels. I went with the back side labels instead and soldered everything based on the backside labels. Who knows, if the labels are wrong on the front side, the labels might be wrong on the back side too.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from Xantari:

I just messaged the pindorabox folks to look at page 80 of this forum now that we have multiple people having problems with these boards.

This could be a problem!

I ignored the labels on the boards and used a large hemostat to keep them aligned and then just soldered them on.

Also the boards I got are different, they have the red emitters.

One other person has them all working.

I wonder if he did what I did and just transferred the wires without looking at the labels on the boards?

#3975 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

Yeah, the labeling is messed up on these boards. One one side they have the E1-E5 labels, but then on the back side they have what appears to be the proper labels. I went with the back side labels instead and soldered everything based on the backside labels. Who knows, if the labels are wrong on the front side, the labels might be wrong on the back side too.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

maybe solder the old boards back on and see if they work at least partly?

#3976 3 years ago

I tested the pins on these new pindorabox boards and all the connections match my old boards. I really wish these boards had one end with the dark color receivers as they both look like they are transmitters, which is wrong. The green one is supposed to be a transmitter. Looks like I have another order into pinball life or marco. Here are the receivers and transmitters:

https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-led-receiver-for-opto-assemblies.html

https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-led-transmitter-emitter-for-opto-assemblies.html

Kinda frustrating these boards weren't made correctly.

It could also be that the anvil and cathode ends of the LED's are swapped around in an assembly error. Let me see if I can test that theory.

#3977 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

I tested the pins on these new pindorabox boards and all the connections match my old boards. I really wish these boards had one end with the dark color receivers as they both look like they are transmitters, which is wrong. The green one is supposed to be a transmitter. Looks like I have another order into pinball life or marco. Here are the receivers and transmitters:
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-led-receiver-for-opto-assemblies.html
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-led-transmitter-emitter-for-opto-assemblies.html
Kinda frustrating these boards weren't made correctly.
It could also be that the anvil and cathode ends of the LED's are swapped around in an assembly error. Let me see if I can test that theory.

The new boards are supposed to have a stronger, higher quality IR's, according to their tech support.

#3979 3 years ago

There should never be a case for these boards, that have a narrow beam to have shrink tubing placed around the IR's. That is what frustrates pinheads, thus is supposed to be plug and play, not plug in, modify, try more modifications. It is absurd that Pindora made this garbage and their answer is just send then back and we will replace them with the same kind. Total BS.

#3980 3 years ago

Still testing, but put in an order for these just in case. Cheapest is from Mousser.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#3982 3 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

There should never be a case for these boards, that have a narrow beam to have shrink tubing placed around the IR's. That is what frustrates pinheads, thus is supposed to be plug and play, not plug in, modify, try more modifications. It is absurd that Pindora made this garbage and their answer is just send then back and we will replace them with the same kind. Total BS.

I agree.

These boards are so incredibly simple, I could perf board a set in 30 mins.

How could they possibly be f#cked up?

Still maybe check the wiring locations?

in post #3741 he got them working without sleeves or anything. He had a bad chip on his opto board.

#3983 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I agree.
These boards are so incredibly simple, I could perf board a set in 30 mins.
How could they possibly be f#cked up?
Still maybe check the wiring locations?
in post #3741 he got them working without sleeves or anything. He had a bad chip on his opto board.

He actually says he removed the sleeves? I did not see that part

#3984 3 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

He actually says he removed the sleeves? I did not see that part

Yes, i tried to post all 3 of his threads.

Including success at the end

#3985 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Yes, i tried to post all 3 of his threads.
Including success at the end

I just read he had success after fixing the opto board

#3986 3 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

I just read he had success after fixing the opto board

I think its helpful to see that at least 1 person got the new clear version opto boards working with relatively few problems.

#3987 3 years ago

I took a 5V power source and a 100 ohm resister and put it on a breadboard and tested the LED's on my old board, all 5 LED's lite up purple on my iphone camera. Did the same thing with the pindorabox ones, and found that the LED's were soldered to the board in reverse. So I should be able to desolder them and solder them back the right way.

EDIT: I screwed up, it seems the LED's are fine. I didn't test them right. In my haste I seen one of the LED's blow out though then I was testing without the resister, sigh. My old board works fine, I found the broken solder point on the old optoreciver. Just going to resolder it and hope that starts working again.

Now I need to figure out how to test the receivers on my old unit and compare to the new pindorabox receivers.

Didn't know how to test these, but it appears I need a logic probe to do it. I don't have one. Sigh. Another purchase.

#3988 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

I took a 5V power source and a 100 ohm resister and put it on a breadboard and tested the LED's on my old board, all 5 LED's lite up purple on my iphone camera. Did the same thing with the pindorabox ones, and found that the LED's were soldered to the board in reverse. So I should be able to desolder them and solder them back the right way.
Now I need to figure out how to test the receivers on my old unit and compare to the new pindorabox receivers.
Didn't know how to test these, but it appears I need a logic probe to do it. I don't have one. Sigh. Another purchase.

Try the pindorabox ones after soldering them in correctly.

They may be just fine.

Faz's guide talks about testing optos.

You can use an ohmmeter.

#3989 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

I took a 5V power source and a 100 ohm resister and put it on a breadboard and tested the LED's on my old board, all 5 LED's lite up purple on my iphone camera. Did the same thing with the pindorabox ones, and found that the LED's were soldered to the board in reverse. So I should be able to desolder them and solder them back the right way.
Now I need to figure out how to test the receivers on my old unit and compare to the new pindorabox receivers.
Didn't know how to test these, but it appears I need a logic probe to do it. I don't have one. Sigh. Another purchase.

Is the board silkscreened wrong? All IR's have a flat for the correct placement on boards that signify the cathode ( - )

#3990 3 years ago

No, the points on the board are correct. I edited my post above. The LED board is fine. But I ended up blowing out one of the LED's. Sigh. Now that I examined the older boards better I found where the solder point died which is why only two of the 5 buttons were working. I should be able to recover the old boards.

#3991 3 years ago

Fixed the solder point on the old receiver board, and tested the receivers using an ohm meter as suggested, that works just fine. It goes to 0 ohms when you cover up the receiver, otherwise they have a value. So it looks like I can get my old boards back in business! Going to go work on wiring them up now so I can try it in the switch test.

#3992 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

Fixed the solder point on the old receiver board, and tested the receivers using an ohm meter as suggested, that works just fine. It goes to 0 ohms when you cover up the receiver, otherwise they have a value. So it looks like I can get my old boards back in business! Going to go work on wiring them up now so I can try it in the switch test.

Crossing fingers lol

#3993 3 years ago

The only good thing about this COVID-19 quarantine is that I finally have time to work on my DW. I have played it for years and never thought there was any problems other then the time factors advancing more then once with each mushroom hit. I thought I had a light leak so I was never concerned. I ran the tests and found Switches L1 and L2 were not working. I also found that string 1 and 2 (brown and orange) of my GI was completely out, but the topper lights where always on. My understanding is that the topper lights are on string 2. They stay on during all five GI string tests and never dim. I got my Faz guide and I am diving in. Wish me luck.

#3994 3 years ago

And all 5 opto switches are alive again!! Using the old boards. It was a couple broken solder points on the receivers! Switch tests 71-75 now pass! Happy.

I've noticed that if I turn the mushroom targets around, there is a certain point where they get stuck in the swinks opto carrier and don't pop back out.

My guess is the mushroom target stems are no longer straight.

Is that normal? Didn't test my old carrier enough to notice that same thing happening.

#3995 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

And all 5 opto switches are alive again!! Using the old boards. It was a couple broken solder points on the receivers! Switch tests 71-75 now pass! Happy.
I've noticed that if I turn the mushroom targets around, there is a certain point where they get stuck in the swinks opto carrier and don't pop back out.
My guess is the mushroom target stems are no longer straight.
Is that normal? Didn't test my old carrier enough to notice that same thing happening.

Did you follow my recommendations?

Start reading here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/doctor-who-owners-clubtime-lords-welcome/page/69#post-5362413

#3996 3 years ago
Quoted from Docbeaks:

The only good thing about this COVID-19 quarantine is that I finally have time to work on my DW. I have played it for years and never thought there was any problems other then the time factors advancing more then once with each mushroom hit. I thought I had a light leak so I was never concerned. I ran the tests and found Switches L1 and L2 were not working. I also found that string 1 and 2 (brown and orange) of my GI was completely out, but the topper lights where always on. My understanding is that the topper lights are on string 2. They stay on during all five GI string tests and never dim. I got my Faz guide and I am diving in. Wish me luck.

Check for burned GI connectors.
Especially the one next to the CPU board on the left.

Its mostly always burned off.

The topper light is on its own wire and sometimes its z connected to the display power.

Took me forever to sort it out lol

I have some posts on this.

#3997 3 years ago
Quoted from Xantari:

And all 5 opto switches are alive again!! Using the old boards. It was a couple broken solder points on the receivers! Switch tests 71-75 now pass! Happy.
I've noticed that if I turn the mushroom targets around, there is a certain point where they get stuck in the swinks opto carrier and don't pop back out.
My guess is the mushroom target stems are no longer straight.
Is that normal? Didn't test my old carrier enough to notice that same thing happening.

Have to raise the green board off of the carrier. I used a piece of fish paper and a template to make a shim on only the green LED board and that solved the issue, otherwise they rub the IR LED.

Also, @pinballreno and myself had to wrap sandpaper around a drill bit and lightly deburr the holes as well.

#3998 3 years ago

My lifter kit and replacement motor board are on the way.
This whole thread gives me a heart attack.
If I did not love this game I would run away.
My MFD works fine but I want to be ready to do a rebuild.
I am going to try and talk Pinballinreno to rebuild mine for me as he is the Dr Who master here.

#3999 3 years ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

My lifter kit and replacement motor board are on the way.
This whole thread gives me a heart attack.
If I did not love this game I would run away.
My MFD works fine but I want to be ready to do a rebuild.
I am going to try and talk Pinballinreno to rebuild mine for me as he is the Dr Who master here.

Did @pinballreno use Ulf's kit? I know I did and I can't be happier. And if he did, he will do a fantastic job. We are all here to assist in any way possible.

#4000 3 years ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

My lifter kit and replacement motor board are on the way.
This whole thread gives me a heart attack.
If I did not love this game I would run away.
My MFD works fine but I want to be ready to do a rebuild.
I am going to try and talk Pinballinreno to rebuild mine for me as he is the Dr Who master here.

Are you trying to kill me? lol

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