(Topic ID: 76377)

Doctor Who Owners Club.....Time Lords Welcome!

By HoakyPoaky

10 years ago


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#3701 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I installed the shaker.
Its amazing and adds tons of drama.
Problem is trying to find the time to dial in the shakes.
Does anyone else have shaker settings to share?

I have my shaker set to activate when the time expanded moves up or down. Adds an amazing dynamic to the game!

#3702 4 years ago
Quoted from rgb635:

I have my shaker set to activate when the time expanded moves up or down. Adds an amazing dynamic to the game!

Makes total sense! Great idea

#3703 4 years ago

Update: No luck. Same results. No optos registering in switch test( 5 target and MPF home).

MPF can't find home position.

Professional Service Tech is next option.

Totally bummed out, plus my DMD gassed out, but that'a okay, I can get the color DMD now.

#3704 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Update: No luck. Same results. No optos registering in switch test( 5 target and MPF home).
MPF can't find home position.
Professional Service Tech is next option.
Totally bummed out, plus my DMD gassed out, but that'a okay, I can get the color DMD now.

Sounds like you are getting close, with all of the bad wire repairs finished.

Do you have continuity from all of the actual LED pins/pads to their pins on the CPU board? (im thinking you do since you pulled the harness etc...)

I checked mine from the leg of the led to the end of the wire in the harness. And then from the leg of the led to the pin on the CPU board with the connector slightly pulled out.

Do all of the opto transmitters light up? (I checked with my phone camera)

Do all of the opto transistors change resistance if a penlight is applied to them? (this is an interesting test that keeps you on track and to keep you from going crazy)

If you pull the opto boards assembly completely out of the system, and out of the carrier, and butterfly them out, plug them into the game "live and in edge test mode" do you get any sounds? (you should not)

Then (while plugged in) if you rub the 2 boards led to led all around, in and out, do you get sounds? (you should be able to get some or all of the optos to respond. You might have to unplug and replug to get them to trigger)

If not, and they are dead, the problem might be J206/208 on the CPU board or loose corroded pins/contacts.

#3705 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Sounds like you are getting close, with all of the bad wire repairs finished.
Do you have continuity from all of the actual LED pins/pads to their pins on the CPU board? (im thinking you do since you pulled the harness etc...)
I checked mine from the leg of the led to the end of the wire in the harness. And then from the leg of the led to the pin on the CPU board with the connector slightly pulled out.
Do all of the opto transmitters light up? (I checked with my phone camera)
Do all of the opto transistors change resistance if a penlight is applied to them? (this is an interesting test that keeps you on track and to keep you from going crazy)
If you pull the opto boards assembly completely out of the system, and out of the carrier, and butterfly them out, plug them into the game "live and in edge test mode" do you get any sounds? (you should not)
Then (while plugged in) if you rub the 2 boards led to led all around, in and out, do you get sounds? (you should be able to get some or all of the optos to respond. You might have to unplug and replug to get them to trigger)
If not, and they are dead, the problem might be J206/208 on the CPU board or loose corroded pins/contacts.

Done all the above 4 and 5 times. No corroded pins, ALL repinned.

#3706 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Done all the above 4 and 5 times. No corroded pins, ALL repinned.

Swap CPU board?

#3707 4 years ago

Swapped MPU and Power Boards. Trust me, I have tried it all.

#3708 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Swapped MPU and Power Boards. Trust me, I have tried it all.

If you are confident about the CPU/Driver/power boards and ribbon cables,

The only other piece is the 10 opto board and its connectors/wires.

You reported that you got a blip when either lifting the playfield or manipulating the harness.
You gotta be close by...

#3709 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

If you are confident about the CPU/Driver/power boards and ribbon cables,
The only other piece is the 10 opto board and its connectors/wires.

Brand new, repinned, checked continuity, inspected/repaires all wire looms, voltages. Like I said, outta my control.

#3710 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Brand new, repinned, checked continuity, check all wire looms, voltages. Like I said, outta my control.

Its an interesting puzzle.

Open another dedicated thread about this so others can chime in.

I dont think its impossible, just frustrating.

Someone on pinside has seen this before, im sure.

#3711 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Its an interesting puzzle.
Open another dedicated thread about this so others can chime in.
I dont think its impossible, just frustrating.
Someone on pinside has seen this before, im sure.

I did, no one responded.

#3712 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

I did, no one responded.

I didnt see it !
Bump it and use more caps in the title.
Itll get attention.

#3713 4 years ago

Had some weird behaviour tonight.

Opto (time expander factor) targets were registering when mpf was down. Maybe from vibration e.g. hitting mpf posts and or orbit transmat ramp above mpf.

Is this a loose connector somewhere, I’d rather not have to pull the mpf out...

#3714 4 years ago

Sounds like the mushroom targets may be sticking and not returning to home or optos are out of alignment.

#3715 4 years ago
Quoted from ignat:

Had some weird behaviour tonight.
Opto (time expander factor) targets were registering when mpf was down. Maybe from vibration e.g. hitting mpf posts and or orbit transmat ramp above mpf.
Is this a loose connector somewhere, I’d rather not have to pull the mpf out...

Could be opto flickering.
What do they look like in test?
They should be stable if you press the flipper buttons in the switch test and not flicker.

How do the respond on the MPF test?

#3716 4 years ago

Flipper alignment question. Should the tips be pointed (centered) at the holes in the playfield? Right now, mine are lined up where the guide rails are flush with the flippers. If I were to point the flippers at the holes, they look like they would be pretty droopy compared to the guide rails.

3A54F394-82A5-408C-A8A8-7F913AC92377.jpeg3A54F394-82A5-408C-A8A8-7F913AC92377.jpeg6E9CF67D-85C4-4566-B48E-26183175C6FB.jpeg6E9CF67D-85C4-4566-B48E-26183175C6FB.jpeg
#3717 4 years ago
Quoted from Jakers:

Flipper alignment question. Should the tips be pointed (centered) at the holes in the playfield? Right now, mine are lined up where the guide rails are flush with the flippers. If I were to point the flippers at the holes, they look like they would be pretty droopy compared to the guide rails.[quoted image][quoted image]

toothpick between the rubber and plastic on the flipper, in the hole.
Yes they will droop slightly, it part of the game design.

The droop helps you to make the hang-on lane, and who ramp easier.

#3718 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Could be opto flickering.
What do they look like in test?
They should be stable if you press the flipper buttons in the switch test and not flicker.
How do the respond on the MPF test?

Did a bit more testing. Everything looks stable in switch test. No flickering.

I did notice however when I really hit all of the optos hard one at a time L2 will almost always also register with the one that was pressed.

I’m assuming my L2 target is overly sensitive which might be my problem. Is this a MPF pull out job?

I was hitting the MPF chassis quite hard and it never false registered only when I depressed another opto did I get a false reading on L2

#3719 4 years ago
Quoted from ignat:

Did a bit more testing. Everything looks stable in switch test. No flickering.
I did notice however when I really hit all of the optos hard one at a time L2 will almost always also register with the one that was pressed.
I’m assuming my L2 target is overly sensitive which might be my problem. Is this a MPF pull out job?
I was hitting the MPF chassis quite hard and it never false registered only when I depressed another opto did I get a false reading on L2

light bleed?
Loose connector/wire?
Alignment issues?

#3720 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

light bleed?
Loose connector/wire?
Alignment issues?

Bit more testing. If I tap the ball in certain spots on the MPF that overly sensitive opto fires. I’m going to pull the MPF out soon. I think there is a loose solder joint.

#3721 4 years ago
Quoted from ignat:

Bit more testing. If I tap the ball in certain spots on the MPF that overly sensitive opto fires. I’m going to pull the MPF out soon. I think there is a loose solder joint.

Sounds like something isnt quite right.

Optos fire when they are turned on and off due to faulty connections.

#3722 4 years ago
Quoted from ignat:

Bit more testing. If I tap the ball in certain spots on the MPF that overly sensitive opto fires. I’m going to pull the MPF out soon. I think there is a loose solder joint.

If It was me, and I was removing this MPG, I would go ahead any buy Swinks' opto carrier and new Pindora boards. Eliminate the guessing, am I right @ pinballreno?

#3723 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

If It was me, and I was removing this MPG, I would go ahead any buy Swinks' opto carrier and new Pindora boards. Eliminate the guessing, am I right @ pinballreno?

Absolutely.
It only took me 2 months and $150 to figure this out lol.

#3724 4 years ago

With all my messing with the minpf
I now don’t have my right eject hole working. I see a purple wire that leads no where now. Did it goto to the left kicker solenoid as chain for power ?

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#3725 4 years ago

If it is the same wire color, yes

#3726 4 years ago
Quoted from harig:

If it is the same wire color, yes

The other end of it goes to the right eject solenoid

#3727 4 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

I see a purple wire that leads no where now.

Are you sure it's solid violet? I'm quite amazed at the level of detail in the manual and sometimes it's hard knowing where to look but the solenoid chart gives some awesome detail
WireChart (resized).pngWireChart (resized).png

The actual wiring later in the book.

Solenoid Wireing 1 (resized).pngSolenoid Wireing 1 (resized).png
Solenoid Wireing 2 (resized).pngSolenoid Wireing 2 (resized).png

Double check the color of the wire and note which is part of the daisy chain.
faz

#3728 4 years ago

I just fixed that same area and the 2 violet wires go together, the violet-yellow wire is a single wire. The solid violet wire is a daisy chain to the other side which has violet-green wire. Hope this helps

Ken

#3729 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

I just fixed that same area and the 2 violet wires go together, the violet-yellow wire is a single wire. The solid violet wire is a daisy chain to the other side which has violet-green wire. Hope this helps
Ken

I also had similar issues with crispy wire.

They kept breaking off in some areas, very brittle.

Recently one fell off the right kicker opto on the MPF.

So far its stable. If it continues I'm replacing the problem wire with silicone replacement wire.

#3730 4 years ago

Alright, making progress! I soldered on my new Pindora PCBs and transferred my mushroom targets over to the new Swinks carrier. I used a piece cut from a sheet of packing foam stuff (like new electronics, such as a Blu-Ray player or something, come wrapped in) to space my receiver board. I REALLY like this opto carrier, it's SOLID. The light baffle things between each opto set is great, and it definitely adds to the structural integrity of this. I don't think I will ever have to worry about this thing flexing or changing shape and changing the alignment. I plugged in the connector to the game and was able to verify the function of my switches after a bit of fiddling. I did have to put a little bit of shrink tube on each of the receivers, as they WOULD NOT interrupt without it. (I neglected to take any pictures of this.) Just long enough to cover most of the side of each receiver. All but opto SW72 are working great...
SW72 was not working at all before i installed the new components, and still isn't working. I verified continuity from each of the termination points on my PCBs (A4/E4) to the opto board under the playfield, as well as continuity of each pin on the 10 opto board connector J1 and J2 to the first resistor in the circuit. All resistors showed the same value, and each junction point of the two resistors that goes to the U1/U2/U3 (-) pin shows continuity. All diodes check good, as well as continuity from each diode to the J3 connector. So, I guess my U1 chip is bad? Am I on the right track?
Thanks!
-Brian, getting closer...

IMG_3957 (resized).JPGIMG_3957 (resized).JPGIMG_3971 (resized).JPGIMG_3971 (resized).JPGIMG_3969 (resized).JPGIMG_3969 (resized).JPGIMG_3970 (resized).JPGIMG_3970 (resized).JPG
#3731 4 years ago

I wouldnt say its the IC yet.

If you had to put shrink tube on the leds, you might have a light refection/interference problem.

This will make you think you think it doesnt work.

Did you make a black paper shroud?

Optos are really frustrating.

Barring bad wires/contacts/traces etc. It should work.

Having a known good spare 10 opto board really helps.

I simply bought a new board.

They dont work right if:

1) They are always active due to reflection or light interference.

2) The beam cant be broken because it already is or misaligned.

So, either the beam cant be broken, or it already is.

Pulling the boards off the carrier and rubbing the transmitters and recievers onto each other during test can be enlightening.

Generally you can prove that each one does indeed work witj a little experimentation.

The rest is all about assembly tweaking.

Sometimes rebooting the game while testing helps to reset the game computer.

#3732 4 years ago
Quoted from RocketFromTombs:

Alright, making progress! I soldered on my new Pindora PCBs and transferred my mushroom targets over to the new Swinks carrier. I used a piece cut from a sheet of packing foam stuff (like new electronics, such as a Blu-Ray player or something, come wrapped in) to space my receiver board. I REALLY like this opto carrier, it's SOLID. The light baffle things between each opto set is great, and it definitely adds to the structural integrity of this. I don't think I will ever have to worry about this thing flexing or changing shape and changing the alignment. I plugged in the connector to the game and was able to verify the function of my switches after a bit of fiddling. I did have to put a little bit of shrink tube on each of the receivers, as they WOULD NOT interrupt without it. (I neglected to take any pictures of this.) Just long enough to cover most of the side of each receiver. All but opto SW72 are working great...
SW72 was not working at all before i installed the new components, and still isn't working. I verified continuity from each of the termination points on my PCBs (A4/E4) to the opto board under the playfield, as well as continuity of each pin on the 10 opto board connector J1 and J2 to the first resistor in the circuit. All resistors showed the same value, and each junction point of the two resistors that goes to the U1/U2/U3 (-) pin shows continuity. All diodes check good, as well as continuity from each diode to the J3 connector. So, I guess my U1 chip is bad? Am I on the right track?
Thanks!
-Brian, getting closer...[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

You can verify transmitters with a cell phone camera.

Receivers change resistance if a penlight is shined on them.

#3733 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I wouldnt say its the IC yet.
If you had to put shrink tube on the leds, you might have a light refection/interference problem.
This will make you think you think it doesnt work.
Did you make a black paper shroud?

Yes, I have done this.

Quoted from pinballinreno:

Pulling the boards off the carrier and rubbing the transmitters and recievers onto each other during test can be enlightening.
Generally you can prove that each one does indeed work witj a little experimentation.

This is how I started, just to prove if the pairs worked. I could get all of them to show a signal except SW72. This was also the case with my original 5-opto PCBs. I didn't put the shrink tubing onto the receivers until after I proved I could get the switches to show both clear and blocked (with the exception of SW72, which always showed blocked). I was unable to get any of the working pairs to show blocked without the shrink tubing. 4 of the 5 mushroom target switches are working perfectly now, but I have not been able to get any signal from the last one. As I said, this was also the case before I started working on the MPF. This leads me to believe that the problem is not with the 5-opto LED/receiver PCBs, and is somewhere upstream, i.e, the 10-opto board.

I will try verifying transmitter and receiver tomorrow before I get into swapping the IC on the 10-opto.

Thank you for your help!

-Brian

#3734 4 years ago
Quoted from RocketFromTombs:

Yes, I have done this.

This is how I started, just to prove if the pairs worked. I could get all of them to show a signal except SW72. This was also the case with my original 5-opto PCBs. I didn't put the shrink tubing onto the receivers until after I proved I could get the switches to show both clear and blocked (with the exception of SW72, which always showed blocked). I was unable to get any of the working pairs to show blocked without the shrink tubing. 4 of the 5 mushroom target switches are working perfectly now, but I have not been able to get any signal from the last one. As I said, this was also the case before I started working on the MPF. This leads me to believe that the problem is not with the 5-opto LED/receiver PCBs, and is somewhere upstream, i.e, the 10-oto board.
I will try verifying transmitter and receiver tomorrow before I get into swapping the IC on the 10-opto.
Thank you for your help!
-Brian

When I reached out to Pindora about the boards, I was instructed not to use any sleeves, as the new clear IR's emitters had a really narrow beam and light bleed was not an issue anymore. I am sure it is possible, and I am glad the sleeves worked for you.

As for SW 72, I bet you have a blown LM339, or bad diode on that opto interface board. Are you able to jumper the pins on the MPU in switch test and verify that SW 72 is working?

#3735 4 years ago

Tomorrow I will also jumper the pins during the switch test and see what happens. And I just checked my stash of ICs and discovered that I DO have a LM339 on hand, so that's a good thing, if I need it...

#3736 4 years ago
Quoted from RocketFromTombs:

Yes, I have done this.

This is how I started, just to prove if the pairs worked. I could get all of them to show a signal except SW72. This was also the case with my original 5-opto PCBs. I didn't put the shrink tubing onto the receivers until after I proved I could get the switches to show both clear and blocked (with the exception of SW72, which always showed blocked). I was unable to get any of the working pairs to show blocked without the shrink tubing. 4 of the 5 mushroom target switches are working perfectly now, but I have not been able to get any signal from the last one. As I said, this was also the case before I started working on the MPF. This leads me to believe that the problem is not with the 5-opto LED/receiver PCBs, and is somewhere upstream, i.e, the 10-opto board.
I will try verifying transmitter and receiver tomorrow before I get into swapping the IC on the 10-opto.
Thank you for your help!
-Brian

if this is the case and all test are completed.
I agree a blown LM339, diode or both, is likely the culprit.

They are a weak link and blow real easy.

#3737 4 years ago

Update: replacing asic chip, hopefully this works

#3738 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Update: replacing asic chip, hopefully this works

Really? Wow.

#3739 4 years ago

Yes. It only makes sense since I am getting data signal corruption.

#3740 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:Update: replacing asic chip, hopefully this works

Hmmmmmm.....Ok? Hope that works for you.

#3741 4 years ago

Success!! I replaced the U1 chip, put the 10-opto board back in, and now all of my mushroom targets work wonderfully!
Now to put the mini playfield back together and install it, and make sure it goes to all three positions properly, and my game is ready to play. It's been a loooooong time, and I'm really looking forward to it.
Thanks for your help pinballinreno !

#3742 4 years ago
Quoted from RocketFromTombs:

Success!! I replaced the U1 chip, put the 10-opto board back in, and now all of my mushroom targets work wonderfully!
Now to put the mini playfield back together and install it, and make sure it goes to all three positions properly, and my game is ready to play. It's been a loooooong time, and I'm really looking forward to it.
Thanks for your help pinballinreno !

Yay!

#3743 4 years ago

Hi everyone,
I am finishing to restore a Dr who, which had not an esay life. I am almost done, but now, I have the (classic?) problem with the mini playfield.
It says error, direction reversed.
Powering up, it goes up and down normally, but fails to pass the test. During gameplay, as soon as the 2 balls are locked, it goes right to the upper position, but does not stop to the middle one.
I also noticed that there is not the sequence when you need to hit the grey targets after locking the 2 balls, it starts immedialtly the multiball...I don't know if it's related or not?
Do have any suggestions to help me? thanks.

#3744 4 years ago
Quoted from lanfeust:

Hi everyone,
I am finishing to restore a Dr who, which had not an esay life. I am almost done, but now, I have the (classic?) problem with the mini playfield.
It says error, direction reversed.
Powering up, it goes up and down normally, but fails to pass the test. During gameplay, as soon as the 2 balls are locked, it goes right to the upper position, but does not stop to the middle one.
I also noticed that there is not the sequence when you need to hit the grey targets after locking the 2 balls, it starts immedialtly the multiball...I don't know if it's related or not?
Do have any suggestions to help me? thanks.

You have a mushroom target problem.

If the left target is flickering or not working propely you will get immediate multiballs.

How does the MPF work in test?

In test 14 does everything work with no errors?

The mini playfield test on the game is very comprehensive.

In switch edge do any opto switches flicker or change when ypu press the flipper buttons?

Pay attention to the MPF optos.

They should not.

Did you replace the MPF motor?

Did you replace the 30 year old 10 opto board and motor controller boards? I would (and did).

Please post a video of test 14.

#3745 4 years ago

Can someone check the positioning of their rollers , specifically the you can see closer to the mini when raised. My rollers, and I assume all rollers do not have the same length of rolling surface on both sides. The side facing the washer on all 4 of mine is a longer surface than the side closer to the frame. I am curious if all 4 are supposed to be oriented this way.

698AFFEF-F60C-498D-9357-C395EDEB27FB (resized).jpeg698AFFEF-F60C-498D-9357-C395EDEB27FB (resized).jpeg
#3746 4 years ago

they look fine.
As long as they dont bind up on anything they are good.

Can you post a complete vid of the DMD during the min playfield test.

try to get it to complete with or without errors.

Its a very powerful tool and we can see what is going on.

#3748 4 years ago

Vid is short.
Everything looks like its working.

You can pause the test anytime and press the mushroom targets.

They also show on the test image.

The mpf is a bit rocky.

More tuning and adjustment is needed i think.

#3749 4 years ago
Quoted from lanfeust:

Hi everyone,
I am finishing to restore a Dr who, which had not an esay life. I am almost done, but now, I have the (classic?) problem with the mini playfield.
It says error, direction reversed.
Powering up, it goes up and down normally, but fails to pass the test. During gameplay, as soon as the 2 balls are locked, it goes right to the upper position, but does not stop to the middle one.
I also noticed that there is not the sequence when you need to hit the grey targets after locking the 2 balls, it starts immedialtly the multiball...I don't know if it's related or not?
Do have any suggestions to help me? thanks.

Failed opto in the MPF. Go into T.14 test mode and watch the indicators on your DMD to see if the optos are registering home position. Will be on the left side of DMD. I had a similar problem, go back and look through the posts in this group, I have a video

#3750 4 years ago

I spent a lot of time on my time expander.

3 days on the inner frame itself.

Mine rocks a tiny bit.

Yours rocks way too much.

Something is binding on the way up, then gets pulled down.

It really has to have zero binding or resistance.

Is the frame flat when layed down on a counter top?

I had flatness problems, squaring problems and roller mounting pins were not even close to square.

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