(Topic ID: 76377)

Doctor Who Owners Club.....Time Lords Welcome!

By HoakyPoaky

10 years ago


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#3351 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Lol, it happens...
These days I need a headlamp magnifying glasses, work lights, a helper....etc...

Amen to that! I am sooo blind in my old age.

#3352 4 years ago

Is there an easy way to get the inner bracket out of the outer for the time expander? I have a new inner I am putting in and I ended up bending the outer frame just enough to squeeze the old inner one out. That can’t be right though.
Do you need to have then crank at the lowest point ?

#3353 4 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

Is there an easy way to get the inner bracket out of the outer for the time expander? I have a new inner I am putting in and I ended up bending the outer frame just enough to squeeze the old inner one out. That can’t be right though.
Do you need to have then crank at the lowest point ?

If I recall correctly, you have to remove the whole bracket from the rest of the mpf and the smaller bracket slides up and out after you remove the E clips.

#3354 4 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

Is there an easy way to get the inner bracket out of the outer for the time expander? I have a new inner I am putting in and I ended up bending the outer frame just enough to squeeze the old inner one out. That can’t be right though.
Do you need to have then crank at the lowest point ?

You did it right.
You have to bend the outer frame a little and then bend it back.

Bend it as little as possible. Its hard the straighten a badly deformed bracket.

Also note that brand new inner brackets are not square at all.

It took me 3 hrs to get it aligned.

It has to be absolutely perfect.

Both inner and outer frames.

Tools I used were a vice, files, machinist square and a polished granite slab to check for flatness.

My inner frame from marco had to be completely reworked.

It absolutely cannot bind in any way.

Very tiny adjustments are needed and a lot if patience.

See my posts earlier in this thread.

Read Faz's guide.

#3355 4 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

If I recall correctly, you have to remove the whole bracket from the rest of the mpf and the smaller bracket slides up and out after you remove the E clips.

The outer frame has to be bent slightly to get the new inner one inside.

The new one doesnt fit as well and needs a bit of rework.

Even the pegs for the rollers are not square.

Nothing on mine was square. It was a mess.

#3356 4 years ago

Crap. I order the new one bc I thought it would be good to go. If that’s the case I would have spent the time trying to get the old one to work.
Also
When you used a 9volt adaptor to move the motor , are you just cutting the end of the adapter and separating the two wires ?
Thanks

#3357 4 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

Crap. I order the new one bc I thought it would be good to go. If that’s the case I would have spent the time trying to get the old one to work.
Also
When you used a 9volt adaptor to move the motor , are you just cutting the end of the adapter and separating the two wires ?
Thanks

I used the adjustable power supply from my workstation.

I highly recommend it. I also use it to test LEDs and light boards.

Just touch wires from the battery to the motor lugs.

You can solder wires onto the battery if you dont have a 9v battery cap/fitting.

I guess you can remove the pins from the connector too.

#3358 4 years ago

That may be a good tool to get
Appreciate it.
I shouldn’t have messed with to start it was working just tilted slightly. I figured it wouldn’t be a hard fix, and I was mistaken. Definitely need to run the motor with it out. Would
Have saved headache of installing in machine and then seeing i tweaked it incorrectly

#3359 4 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

That may be a good tool to get
Appreciate it.
I shouldn’t have messed with to start it was working just tilted slightly. I figured it wouldn’t be a hard fix, and I was mistaken. Definitely need to run the motor with it out. Would
Have saved headache of installing in machine and then seeing i tweaked it incorrectly

Read faz's guide and follow it.

The motor frame has to be dead-on, or it stresses the motor and gearbox, and blows up the motor controller PC board by drawing too much current.

You will also get overvolt errors in the game and MPF shutdowns.

Once adjusted though, it lasts years.

Note, all of the new motors are wired backwards. Or the red dot is on the wrong side.

Slop in the gearbox causes rocking and tilting too.

#3360 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Read faz's guide and follow it.
The motor frame has to be dead-on, or it stresses the motor and gearbox, and blows up the motor controller PC board by drawing too much current.
You will also get overvolt errors in the game and MPF shutdowns.
Once adjusted though, it lasts years.
Note, all of the new motors are wired backwards. Or the red dot is on the wrong side.
Slop in the gearbox causes rocking and tilting too

His guide is terrific and he knows the expander inside and out. I Just need to improve my skills to get it running

#3361 4 years ago

In case anyone wants to add the motorized topper it looks like the reproductions of the original by the basement arcade is available on eBay. Not sure for how long or how many are available.

#3362 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

The outer frame has to be bent slightly to get the new inner one inside.
The new one doesnt fit as well and needs a bit of rework.
Even the pegs for the rollers are not square.
Nothing on mine was square. It was a mess.

Oops, sorry - I missed that it was the new bracket! Sounds like it worked out

#3363 4 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Oops, sorry - I missed that it was the new bracket! Sounds like it worked out

I couldn’t get the new one to fit. When I put them side by side the new one was taller. Went back to messing with original

#3364 4 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

I couldn’t get the new one to fit. When I put them side by side the new one was taller. Went back to messing with original

Yes, it needs a bit of rework.

#3365 4 years ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

In case anyone wants to add the motorized topper it looks like the reproductions of the original by the basement arcade is available on eBay. Not sure for how long or how many are available.

Do you have a link?
Sounds like fun, lol.

#3366 4 years ago

Swink's new opto carrier for MPF arrived today, minenis Blue, gonna look way better,putting it in now. Just an FYI, use some 2000 grit sandpaper to smooth the holes for the mushroom tatgets, mine were too tight. I wrapped my sandpaper around a drill bit and spun the carrier, presto bango, targets don't stick. I am adding small washers to only one side to lift board off the carrier so clips from mushroom targets do not bit IR LED's. Next is install and test.......

#3367 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Swink's new opto carrier for MPF arrived today, minenis Blue, gonna look way better,putting it in now. Just an FYI, use some 2000 grit sandpaper to smooth the holes for the mushroom tatgets, mine were too tight. I wrapped my sandpaper around a drill bit and spun the carrier, presto bango, targets don't stick. I am adding small washers to only one side to lift board off the carrier so clips from mushroom targets do not bit IR LED's. Next is install and test.......

Washers work pretty good.

I'm using 3 layers of electrical tape to keep the board from tilting after its smashed down by the scoop.

#3368 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Swink's new opto carrier for MPF arrived today, minenis Blue, gonna look way better,putting it in now. Just an FYI, use some 2000 grit sandpaper to smooth the holes for the mushroom tatgets, mine were too tight. I wrapped my sandpaper around a drill bit and spun the carrier, presto bango, targets don't stick. I am adding small washers to only one side to lift board off the carrier so clips from mushroom targets do not bit IR LED's. Next is install and test.......

thanks for the feedback and any recommendations, please share any thoughts and photos as I can incorparte into the design where possible.

Shapeways variance is +- 0.25mm so the holes could be a fraction smaller or larger.

#3369 4 years ago

I now have an issue. SW 72 and SW 75 show closed in Switch Edge test. All others works as the should. I have good continuity on all wires and connectors. I am swapping my original opto boards in to see if anything changes...My opto interface board test 100%, no cracked headers and solid 12 volts. Any other advice here? MPU is brand New, Power Driver board is 100% tested and repaired.

#3370 4 years ago

Here is the pinout I am using when I solder, I think this correct. Can someone verify?

20191214_183008 (resized).jpg20191214_183008 (resized).jpg
#3371 4 years ago

Ok, after measuring the mushroom target stems, I have 2 that are longer, therefore already breaking the beam....arghhhh

#3372 4 years ago

Optos are really confusing but also simple.

They are either interrupted/not communicating.

Or they are constantly communicating/not interrupted.

If you cant interrupt an opto with a finger or piece of paper,

It's already interrupted, mis-aligned, blocked, cant see the light, or broken.

If the interrupter wont block the light but a finger or piece of paper does,

You have a leak or the interrupter isnt blocking as it should or its misaligned.

In switch test all the opto squares should be lit.

They go dark when optos are interrupted/misaligned or broken.

The squares flicker if the opto is failing or light is leaking and causing the opto to connect and disconnect from its light.

Tiny light leaks can cause this or alignment issues.

Misalignment is the biggest problem to overcome on this system.

That is why an opto carrier that's stable is required.

It has always taken me 2 hours to get the optos aligned so that they all work.

It really pisses me off when they change their setting due to changes or flexing of the carrier itself.

Again, I hate this unit.

#3373 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Optos are really confusing but also simple.
They are either interrupted/not communicating.
Or they are constantly communicating/not interrupted.
If you cant interrupt an opto with a finger or piece of paper,
It's already interrupted, mis-aligned, blocked or broken.
If the interrupter wont block the light but a finger or piece of paper does,
You have a leak or the interrupter isnt blocking as it should.
In switch test all the opto squares should be lit.
They go dark when optos are interrupted/misaligned or broken.
The squares flicker if the opto is failing or light is leaking and causing the opto to connect and disconnect from its light.
Tiny light leaks can cause this or alignment issues.

There is no light leak, the new upgraded carrier has built in dividers to prevent light issues. I have corrected any misalignment. It is the mushroom target stem, too long. Have to shave a few mm off the end. My orginal board are far superior to the junk Gulf Stream Boards.

#3374 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

There is no light leak, the new upgraded carrier has built in dividers to prevent light issues. I have corrected any misalignment. It is the mushroom target stem, too long. Have to shave a few mm off the end. My orginal board are far superior to the junk Gulf Stream Boards.

Ahhhhhh, I'll have to check my stem lengths when I rebuild it.

So, the long stems keep the opto always partially interrupted?

Nice find!

Its possible that the led is shooting crooked, just enough that the stems are a factor. I have seen this too.

I tilted the board with a 3/16" wide tape along one edge of the board then screwed it down.

I have also warped the board with bits of tape here and there to compensate.

I'm going with pandorabox boards, this next rebuild.

After that I'll try the great plains ones if it doesnt work properly, if I can get them.

I have to agree the gulf stream boards are way to finicky and sensitive.

#3375 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Ahhhhhh, I'll have to check my stem lengths when I rebuild it.
So, the long stems keep the opto always partially interrupted?
Nice find!
Its possible that the led is shooting crooked. I have seen this too.
I'm going with pandorabox boards, this next rebuild.
After that I'll try the great plains ones if it doesnt work properly, if I can get them.

I bought my IR led's from GPE and they are a solid fit with just a 1 mm washer under each board or whatever u want to raise the boards so the c-clips do not rub the IR LED's

I also made sure my LED's were flush on the boards and 90 degress to it.

#3376 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Ahhhhhh, I'll have to check my stem lengths when I rebuild it.
So, the long stems keep the opto always partially interrupted?
Nice find!
Its possible that the led is shooting crooked. I have seen this too.
I'm going with pandorabox boards, this next rebuild.
After that I'll try the great plains ones if it doesnt work properly, if I can get them.

If you need IR LED's, I have plenty I can sell you.

#3377 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

I bought my IR led's from GPE and they are a solid fit with just a 1 mm washer under each board or whatever u want to raise the boards so the c-clips do not rub the IR LED's
I also made sure my LED's were flush on the boards and 90 degress to it.

I'm using layers of black tape along the whole length of the carrier, instead of washers, to keep the boards from tilting after the scoop is bolted down onto it.

I have had it absolutely perfect and then go to shit after it gets assembled.

Tape instead of washers somewhat solves this.

Shorter led recievers would be the best solution.

#3378 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I'm using layers of black tape along the whole length of the carrier, instead of washers, to keep the boards from tilting after the scoop is bolted down onto it.
I have had it absolutely perfect and then go to shit after it gets assembled.
Tape instead of washers somewhat solves this.
Shorter led recievers would be the best solution.

I could not source shorter IR LED's, I asked ED at GPE.

The new opto carrier is nice, the IR LED's sit perfectly in the carrier, but because of the longer length IR LED's, it renders the pocket useless for alignment. Swinks, if you are reading this, maybe this can be fixed in the design. I will snap a pic tomorrow to show this, when I take the MPF out, yet again

#3379 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

I could not source shorter IR LED's, I asked ED at GPE.
The new opto carrier is nice, the IR LED's sit perfectly in the carrier, but because of the longer length IR LED's, it renders the pocket useless for alignment. Swinks, if you are reading this, maybe this can be fixed in the design. I will snap a pic tomorrow to show this, when I take the MPF out, yet again

yes I am reading this as I want the product that I am providing to be the best option possible especially the modded version with the light baffles built in so please share any info as it is very much appreciated, and I appreciate the support to trust and try the product and the main reason was to get rid of the warping issue and add light baffles but if we can tweak to make it even better than happy to do this.

1. let me know that the baffles work as in tended.
2. happy to extend the IR LED outer tubes if that helps as long as original boards and retro boards fit
3. happy to add additional step on the mushroom target area to cancel out the need of washers if that is of any help - are you using original mushroom targets?

#3380 4 years ago

What is the max diameter of the mushroom target clip?

as this will help me determine the IR LED tube extension.......

#3381 4 years ago

On the upgraded version at Shapeways I put 1mm shoulder lips around the IR LED holes and now changed that to 3mm on the lhs and 4.5mm on the rhs but stopped so when looking from above the large circle of the mushroom target / clip would not foul with these extensions but if you could confirm the diameter of the clip - that would help. I won't upload until I add the changes you guys reckon are needed.
dr who v2 (resized).pngdr who v2 (resized).png

#3382 4 years ago

in relation to the mushroom targets and the stems blocking the IR LEDS in the non-activated mode - I could reduce the stem shaft a little which effectively lowers the tip of the stem a little?

you can see the stem a little through the holes
button location 1 (resized).pngbutton location 1 (resized).png

non-activated
button location 3 (resized).pngbutton location 3 (resized).png

activated, going of this I could add possibly another 1-1.5mm to the IR LED shafts
button location 2 (resized).pngbutton location 2 (resized).png

#3383 4 years ago
Quoted from swinks:

On the upgraded version at Shapeways I put 1mm shoulder lips around the IR LED holes and now changed that to 3mm on the lhs and 4.5mm on the rhs but stopped so when looking from above the large circle of the mushroom target / clip would not foul with these extensions but if you could confirm the diameter of the clip - that would help. I won't upload until I add the changes you guys reckon are needed.
[quoted image]

The hole steps would have to be funnel shaped to allow for the bending of the leds.

Its easily fixed with a shaped reamer or a counter sink.

I'll look at mine tomorrow if I have time.

2 hrs of screwing around aligning LEDs really has to be solved.

The gulf stream boards are really difficult to work with.

I'll see if the pandorabox ones are easier to adjust.

In theory, you shouldn't have to fool with them at all.

It's a real problem.

#3384 4 years ago

while you guys are mucking arounbd with the IR LEDS and if you have a set of verniers can you please measure the diameter of the different ones:
originals -
gulf stream -
pandorabox -
.
.
.
but agree it should really be plug and play for the LED's

#3385 4 years ago

Swinks, Here are the measurement pics and measurements for the Gulf Stream boards
20191215_104613 (resized).jpg20191215_104613 (resized).jpg20191215_105502 (resized).jpg20191215_105502 (resized).jpg20191215_104638 (resized).jpg20191215_104638 (resized).jpg20191215_105409 (resized).jpg20191215_105409 (resized).jpg20191215_105551 (resized).jpg20191215_105551 (resized).jpg20191215_105622 (resized).jpg20191215_105622 (resized).jpg20191215_105657 (resized).jpg20191215_105657 (resized).jpg20191215_105821 (resized).jpg20191215_105821 (resized).jpg20191215_105900 (resized).jpg20191215_105900 (resized).jpg20191215_110006 (resized).jpg20191215_110006 (resized).jpg

20191215_143905 (resized).jpg20191215_143905 (resized).jpg
#3386 4 years ago

So here is what I have now. SW 72 is not registering, per switch edge test. I have attached pics, optos all work, voltages are good. I have the target removed and when I break the beam, nothing registers. Continuity is good all the way back to MPU connector J206/8. I am going to repin the connector points. Any other advice is appreciated.

20191215_110445 (resized).jpg20191215_110445 (resized).jpg20191215_111629 (resized).jpg20191215_111629 (resized).jpg20191215_111612 (resized).jpg20191215_111612 (resized).jpg
#3387 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

So here is what I have now. SW 72 is not registering, per switch edge test. I have attached pics, optos all work, voltages are good. I have the target removed and when I break the beam, nothing registers. Continuity is good all the way back to MPU connector J206/8. I am going to repin the connector points. Any other advice is appreciated.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Pull the boards out of the carrier.

Check the emitters with cell phone camera to see if they all light up. Although I can see in the pictures that they are all lighted.

Put the game in switch test.

Lean the playfield all the way back onto the backglass.

Sit next to the game, you can barely see the dmd screen etc.

Plug the harness into the game "live".

Physically rub the 2 LED boards emitters and recievers together at varying angles and then separate, to see if you get a response on switch test.

Do the whole board, touch individuals, touch random sets, do them one by one, fiddle with it until you can verify that one or all of them work.

Place 1/2" bits of drinking straw or tube over the sets and check the test. All should be lit.

If a switch isn't lit in test, the beam is broken or not recieving.

Distance is a factor.
Some have to be really close to work, others do not.
Washers could be too thick.
Try the tape method.
I hate this unit....

#3388 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Pull the boards out of the carrier.
Check the emitters with cell phone camera to see if they all light up. Although I can see in the pictures that they are all lighted.
Put the game in switch test.
Plug the harness into the game "live".
Physically rub the 2 LED boards emitters and recievers together at varying angles and then separate, to see if you get a response on switch test.
Do the whole board, touch individuals, touch random sets, do them one by one, fiddle with it until you can verify that one or all of them work.
Place 1/2" bits of drinking straw or tube over the sets and check the test. All should be lit.
If a switch isn't lit in test, the beam is broken or not recieving.
Distance is a factor.
Some have to be really close to work, others do not.
Washers could be too thick.
Try the tape method.
I hate this unit....

I will try tape method next. Arghhhhhhhh

#3389 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

I will try tape method next. Arghhhhhhhh

The problem emitter might be shooting crooked or the reciever is recieving at an angle internally.

I have visually verified that not all emitters shoot straight.

Oddly not all pairs respond the same. Some are weak.

#3390 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

The problem emitter might be shooting crooked or the reciever is recieving at an angle internally.
I have visually verified that not all emitters shoot straight.

I am replacing the reciever as I believe it is bad, even though it lights up.

#3391 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

I am replacing the reciever as I believe it is bad, even though it lights up.

It could be the emitter shooting crooked.

If you cant get it to respond manually, out if the carrier, On any of the emitters, it's probably bad/cracked/unsoldered etc.

With a bit of drinking straw or shrink tube you can isolate and mismatch pairs to test individually.

Also try reseating the connector on the 10 opto board and smash the wires down on the idc connector.

I'm thinking of redoing this connector with trifurcons.

#3392 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

It could be the emitter shooting crooked.
If you cant get it to respond manually, out if the carrier, On any of the emitters, it's probably bad/cracked/unsoldered etc.
With a bit of drinking straw or shrink tube you can isolate and mismatch pairs to test individually.
Also try reseating the connector on the 10 opto board and smash the wires down on the idc connector.
I'm thinking of redoing this connector with trifurcons.

No luck. I tried straws. Solder is 100%, I am a pro. I get same result with original and gulfstream boards, so I have to move upstream to Opto Board. It may be one of the LM339 chips. I tested all diodes, resistors on the board, just need to confirm the logic now

#3393 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

No luck. I tried straws. Solder is 100%, I am a pro. I get same result with original and gulfstream boards, so I have to move upstream to Opto Board. It may be one of the LM339 chips. I tested all diodes, resistors on the board, just need to confirm the logic now

By mismatching the pairs you can isolate exactly the problem emitter or reciever.

Does the problem emitter activate one of the other receivers?

Does the problem reciever work from a known good emitter etc?

Trace the wires from the faulty part if replacing doesnt fix it.

#3394 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

By mismatching the pairs you can isolate exactly the problem emitter or reciever.
Does the problem emitter activate one of the other receivers?
Does the problem reciever work from a known good emitter etc?
Trace the wires from the faulty part if replacing doesnt fix it.

It could be a bad chip.

I have replaced chips thinking it was fixed, only to find that unplugging and replugging in the idc connector was the real issue.

A loose wire/bad pin in the idc is more common, either on the CPU board or the 10 opto board.

Also try rebooting the game.
It has the ability to shut off stuck switches just to fool you.

I had a similar problem with the m opto.

3 reboots later it came back to life.

I think flickering caused the game to shut it off.

Mismatching the pairs tells you a lot.

#3395 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

By mismatching the pairs you can isolate exactly the problem emitter or reciever.
Does the problem emitter activate one of the other receivers?
Does the problem reciever work from a known good emitter etc?
Trace the wires from the faulty part if replacing doesnt fix it.

Already did that. I believe I have a bad LM339 on Optoboard.

#3396 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Already did that. I believe I have a bad LM339 on Optoboard.

It's not uncommon.

My new homepin opto board has the chips socketed.

You can try jumpering the bad pair to another circuit pair just to test.

#3397 4 years ago

Unplugging and plugging in live several times can clear up the game logic as far as stuck switch nonsense.

#3398 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Unplugging and plugging in live several times can clear up the game logic as far as stuck switch nonsense.

Upgraded the ROM chip to L2 and reset game. No luck. Gonna watch football and relax today. Thanks for all the help today.

#3399 4 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Upgraded the ROM chip to L2 and reset game. No luck. Gonna watch football and relax today. Thanks for all the help today.

No problem!

I'll be doing exactly the same job in a couple days.

#3400 4 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

I couldn’t get the new one to fit. When I put them side by side the new one was taller. Went back to messing with original

How much was it? Hopefully you sent feedback about it. Customers should not need to rework a repro piece.

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