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(Topic ID: 252279)

Doctor Who opto issue again


By mwrussel

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by wayout440
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 1 year ago

    I previously had an issue with my Dr Who where several solenoids/optos were firing causing a weird issue. The playfield moves without knowling location, ball shooter, tardis popper, MPF ball ejects all fire randomly. Last time, everything passed tests and when checking connections, the problem resolved when I removed unplugged and reseated J117. It's now doing the same thing again, but everytime I try to check, fuse F105 blows. Reseating the plug does not fix it this time. A short somewhere? Any help would be appreciated.

    #2 1 year ago
    Quoted from mwrussel:

    I previously had an issue with my Dr Who where several solenoids/optos were firing causing a weird issue. The playfield moves without knowling location, ball shooter, tardis popper, MPF ball ejects all fire randomly. Last time, everything passed tests and when checking connections, the problem resolved when I removed unplugged and reseated J117. It's now doing the same thing again, but everytime I try to check, fuse F105 blows. Reseating the plug does not fix it this time. A short somewhere? Any help would be appreciated.

    You're not unplugging and plugging in connectors while the power is on, I hope?

    Does fuse F105 blow when you run a solenoid test? F105 is for solenoids 1-8. If this is blowing, it is because something is drawing too much current. Usually that is because a solenoid is stuck on too long, or a flyback diode is cracked, or otherwise defective.

    I would focus on thorough examination of the switches and solenoids as separate entities, primarily through game diagnostics - because at this point it doesn't appear that you have isolated this to a switch problem or a solenoid problem...but it could also be something else entirely. It could be random data from a defect on the CPU throwing out random instructions to fire solenoids. Does the game behave properly in all the diagnostic modes, and the random occurrences happen only during gameplay?

    #3 1 year ago

    Different from last time I had the issue, this time the fuse blows within a few seconds of powering up. Previously, no fuse issue. The solenoid test showed that all soleniods tied to F105 wouldn't work, but they were all firing right before the fuse blew. Checking the switches, it appears that all the optos related those solenoids are not working. Also, of note. While the flipper solenoids worked, the flipper buttons (optos, I'm guessing) did not work. Switches 31-33, 71-77 roughly all failed the test. Again, all of this is with a blown fuse in 105....I think the switches would be able to work with that blown fuse, but I could be mistaken in that.

    I haven't been unplugging connectors with the power on, but I have wiggled them with a finger....guessing that's not too smart? I'll refrain from that.

    Since this occurred, the game is unplayable.

    Thanks for you thoughts.

    #4 1 year ago

    I would start by focusing on the optos problem first, and temporarily ignore the solenoid problem. The *most likely* problem with that many optos dead is absence of opto power. I would want to verify if that is indeed the case by checking at the optos for presence of opto supply power, and if it gone them work my way back to the cause.

    #5 1 year ago

    Power off:

    Verify that all plugs on the driver board are making connection and appear good.

    Verify all ribbon cables are correctly installed and making contact.

    Check GI connectors for burnt pins or connectors.

    Unplug j117.
    Replace any blown fuses

    Switches and solenoids are separate systems.

    Power up the game and in switch edge test, check and test every single switch. Including EOS switches.

    Repair, fix or solve any switch problems. This can be done with every single connector from the solenoid harness disconnected if necessary.

    This will eliminate any switch questions.

    With the game powered off, check every single coil for loose wires and bad or broken diodes, broken or shorted wires.

    Verify that they are all good.

    This is a good place to start.

    #6 1 year ago

    OP:

    I am local to you, and have fixed a bunch of DWs locally. Reach out, and I can assist.

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from mwrussel:

    I previously had an issue with my Dr Who where several solenoids/optos were firing causing a weird issue. The playfield moves without knowling location, ball shooter, tardis popper, MPF ball ejects all fire randomly. Last time, everything passed tests and when checking connections, the problem resolved when I removed unplugged and reseated J117. It's now doing the same thing again, but everytime I try to check, fuse F105 blows. Reseating the plug does not fix it this time. A short somewhere? Any help would be appreciated.

    Suspect broken intermittent wires internally in mini playfield harness:

    Re Check the mini playfield harness for intermittent shorts/internal broken wires. in opto test gently flex the harness to check for signals going in and out.
    Remedy:
    replace/refresh all the fatigued wires in harness that are constantly moving up and down.

    #8 1 year ago

    Update....with power off, I checked all the plugs and looked for any signs wear/burns...nothing noted. I plugged things back in one at a time with the power off and then powered up to see if all was okay. Everything worked fine except J130 which started the poppers and ejects related to col 1 thru 8, so I left that unplugged. According to my manual, opto switch 10pcb assembly under the pf gets its power at j3 from j118. When I checked the voltage at J3 pins 1 and 2, I got 2v only, not 12V. So I checked the output at J118 on the driver board, only 2V there as well. Fuse in 105 doesn't blow as long as I leave J130 unplugged.

    Did a full switch check, all switches worked except those related to the optos in question. Solenoids worked as well, except for those that were unplugged a j130.

    I did not check the power coming into the driver board, but it seems all the other outputs are working WNL, so figured it was a j118 problem. Any additional guidance is appreciated.

    #9 1 year ago

    You might want to see if it is doing a ball search like when the dmd says pinball missing. If that is the case then you may have a number of different causes but not limited to dirty optos, flaky micro switches, damaged or worn insulation on wiring, maladjusted micro switches, especially on the ball trough, and or cracked connector pins on the opto boards.

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Postal:

    You might want to see if it is doing a ball search like when the dmd says pinball missing. If that is the case then you may have a number of different causes but not limited to dirty optos, flaky micro switches, damaged or worn insulation on wiring, maladjusted micro switches, especially on the ball trough, and or cracked connector pins on the opto boards.

    I think the ball trough is partly working normally. The outhole kicks them into the trough properly and all the ball trough switches register properly loaded and unloaded. But the launcher is one that does continually fire.

    I'm hoping its not dirty optos since all the nonworking optos seem to be coming from the same board with the low power.

    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from mwrussel:

    I think the ball trough is partly working normally. The outhole kicks them into the trough properly and all the ball trough switches register properly loaded and unloaded. But the launcher is one that does continually fire.
    I'm hoping its not dirty optos since all the nonworking optos seem to be coming from the same board with the low power.

    Might need a new opto board.
    I just replaced mine. $99 whew!

    I also replaced all the opto's on the entire game.

    But changing out the board is what solved my issues.

    All fixed now.

    #12 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    Might need a new opto board.
    I just replaced mine. $99 whew!
    I also replaced all the opto's on the entire game.
    But changing out the board is what solved my issues.
    All fixed now.

    Yeah, I figured that might be on the horizon. Where did you get your replacement?

    What I don't understand is the 2V at the power driver board going to the board even with the connector unplugged from the driver.

    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from mwrussel:

    Yeah, I figured that might be on the horizon. Where did you get your replacement?
    What I don't understand is the 2V at the power driver board going to the board even with the connector unplugged from the driver.

    I believe this one. Check your part number:
    https://www.pinballlife.com/10-opto-replacement-board-a-15430.html

    Also had Chris hibler repair my driver board. It was really bad with missing pins and burnt off connectors.

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from mwrussel:

    Yeah, I figured that might be on the horizon. Where did you get your replacement?
    What I don't understand is the 2V at the power driver board going to the board even with the connector unplugged from the driver.

    This should be solved first before jumping on to replace the board. If it is not getting the correct power the new board won't work correctly either.

    #15 1 year ago

    If the opto board isn't hammered they often can be fixed.... a lot of the time it's bad 339 chips.

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    This should be solved first before jumping on to replace the board. If it is not getting the correct power the new board won't work correctly either.

    Any thoughts on why the power is low at J118 the driver board? I have limited knowledge of ICB's, but it appears all the ports have normal power levels....could it be an indiviual component on the board, or loose pins at 118 or some general physical board damage?

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    If the opto board isn't hammered they often can be fixed.... a lot of the time it's bad 339 chips.

    I've never had a board repaired...is it the better option in that it is less expensive or are the original boards better overall such that repairing them is better than a replacement?

    #18 1 year ago
    Quoted from mwrussel:

    Any thoughts on why the power is low at J118 the driver board? I have limited knowledge of ICB's, but it appears all the ports have normal power levels....could it be an indiviual component on the board, or loose pins at 118 or some general physical board damage?

    Very well could be an old cap has puked its guts.

    #19 1 year ago

    Repairing them (especially if you can do it yourself) is WAY cheaper than buying a new one. Sending them out is usually cheaper as well.

    #20 1 year ago

    How much knowledge do you have in troubleshooting power supplies? It could be several things failed bridge rectifier, connectors cracked solder. First, you need to verify the correct AC power is getting IN to the board.

    Don't assume anything. Narrow down the problem with troubleshooting first before throwing money and time at boards that may not be the problem.

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    How much knowledge do you have in troubleshooting power supplies? It could be several things failed bridge rectifier, connectors cracked solder. First, you need to verify the correct AC power is getting IN to the board.

    Don't assume anything. Narrow down the problem with troubleshooting first before throwing money and time at boards that may not be the problem.

    I've got a DMM that I'm pretty decent with. I'll check the power in first and see what I get. I'm assuming I'll find the input connector and test there based on schematics from the manual..

    #22 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    How much knowledge do you have in troubleshooting power supplies? It could be several things failed bridge rectifier, connectors cracked solder. First, you need to verify the correct AC power is getting IN to the board.
    Don't assume anything. Narrow down the problem with troubleshooting first before throwing money and time at boards that may not be the problem.

    I checked the voltages coming into the power driver. I believe I was using the DMM correct by choosing the VAC setting, putting the common on the ground strap attached to the mounting plate and then checked individual pins through the connector. I roughly got half the state VAC for each input. I checked just a few of the outputs as well and they seemed to be spot on.

    Here's the input VAC results with expected in ()

    J101
    pin 1 5.3 (9)
    pin 2 5.2 (9)
    pin 4 6.7 (13)
    pin 6 6.7 (13)

    J102
    pin 2 8.7 (16)
    pin 4 7.9 (16)
    pin 6 7.5 (16)
    pin 9 7.5 (16)

    J104 is VAC output to J901-3
    pin 1 31 (50)
    pin 2 26 (50)

    J112
    pin 1 4.6 (9.8)
    pin 3 6.8 (9.8)

    J115 all pins were supposed to be 6.8VAC, all were approximately 5 VAC

    The few VDC outputs checed were as expectred, some higher than expected, 50v outputs at j107 were giving 75V

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from mwrussel:

    I checked the voltages coming into the power driver. I believe I was using the DMM correct by choosing the VAC setting, putting the common on the ground strap attached to the mounting plate and then checked individual pins through the connector. I roughly got half the state VAC for each input. I checked just a few of the outputs as well and they seemed to be spot on.
    Here's the input VAC results with expected in ()
    J101
    pin 1 5.3 (9)
    pin 2 5.2 (9)
    pin 4 6.7 (13)
    pin 6 6.7 (13)
    J102
    pin 2 8.7 (16)
    pin 4 7.9 (16)
    pin 6 7.5 (16)
    pin 9 7.5 (16)
    J104 is VAC output to J901-3
    pin 1 31 (50)
    pin 2 26 (50)
    J112
    pin 1 4.6 (9.8)
    pin 3 6.8 (9.8)
    J115 all pins were supposed to be 6.8VAC, all were approximately 5 VAC
    The few VDC outputs checed were as expectred, some higher than expected, 50v outputs at j107 were giving 75V

    Are all voltage LED's on the Power Driver board "on" and have you verified the voltage at their corresponding Test Points on the board?

    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from mwrussel:

    I checked the voltages coming into the power driver. I believe I was using the DMM correct by choosing the VAC setting, putting the common on the ground strap attached to the mounting plate and then checked individual pins through the connector. I roughly got half the state VAC for each input. I checked just a few of the outputs as well and they seemed to be spot on.
    Here's the input VAC results with expected in ()
    J101
    pin 1 5.3 (9)
    pin 2 5.2 (9)
    pin 4 6.7 (13)
    pin 6 6.7 (13)
    J102
    pin 2 8.7 (16)
    pin 4 7.9 (16)
    pin 6 7.5 (16)
    pin 9 7.5 (16)
    J104 is VAC output to J901-3
    pin 1 31 (50)
    pin 2 26 (50)
    J112
    pin 1 4.6 (9.8)
    pin 3 6.8 (9.8)
    J115 all pins were supposed to be 6.8VAC, all were approximately 5 VAC
    The few VDC outputs checed were as expectred, some higher than expected, 50v outputs at j107 were giving 75V

    On the Opto board check input voltage is present:
    J3 Pin 1 is Ground Pin 2 is 12V

    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from eyeamred2u:

    Are all voltage LED's on the Power Driver board "on" and have you verified the voltage at their corresponding Test Points on the board?

    Yes, they are. I'm not familiar with the test points, I've been testing at the connectors. Can you point me to them?

    The opto board LED is off.

    #26 1 year ago
    Quoted from eyeamred2u:

    Are all voltage LED's on the Power Driver board "on" and have you verified the voltage at their corresponding Test Points on the board?

    Well, whaddya know, it's like the people the designed those boards were thinking ahead or something! I feel stupid...so LED7 is not lit, the other 6 are. 5 of the 7 voltages were spot on compared to the ground. The +50 was giving me +75. The +12VP at test 1 right next to the unlit LED7 was giving about 2V....which is what I was getting at J118 that went down to the opto board.

    #27 1 year ago
    Quoted from mwrussel:

    Well, whaddya know, it's like the people the designed those boards were thinking ahead or something! I feel stupid...so LED7 is not lit, the other 6 are. 5 of the 7 voltages were spot on compared to the ground. The +50 was giving me +75. The +12VP at test 7 right next to the unlit LED was giving about 2V....which is what I was getting at J118 that went down to the opto board.
    I check them with the DMM on VDC. one of the test points said VD, in stead of V and the one that appears to be bad says VP, versus just V for the rest. What are the differences?

    Your cap at c2 is most likely bad and needs to be replaced.

    #28 1 year ago

    Start at fuse F116

    #29 1 year ago
    Quoted from zaza:

    Start at fuse F116

    Success! The fuse at f116 looked completely intact, but when I took it out and tested it with the DMM it was bad. New fuse put in and LED7 came back on. Voltage at TestPoint1 went to 12v. J118 which was showing low voltage aslo went back up to 12v. Apparently, the opto board came back to life, since the poppers related to those optos stopped firing continuously when I restored power to them. Thanks all, once again I leared alot.

    I have two remaining problems....mini playfield does not move, but i found a broken wire right at the motor, so I figure that's it. And a bad connector on some of the GI lights needs to be replaced. I"ll start a different thread on them if help is needed.

    Appreciate all the thoughts and guidance!

    #31 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    Zaza is the best!

    Yeah, well...these other folks had this hobbyist almost convinced to buy a new board until I stepped in.

    Troubleshoot. Don't guess.

    #32 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Yeah, well...these other folks had this hobbyist almost convinced to buy a new board until I stepped in.
    Troubleshoot. Don't guess.

    Thanks for your (and everyones) help. Learned a lot about troubleshooting...I'm sure theres a vast amount more to learn. Hope to graduate from hobbyist one day!

    #33 1 year ago
    Quoted from mwrussel:

    Thanks for your (and everyones) help. Learned a lot about troubleshooting...I'm sure theres a vast amount more to learn. Hope to graduate from hobbyist one day!

    We're always leaning & improving. I didn't even know there was a graduation. Must have missed the party

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