(Topic ID: 210346)

Doctor Who Intermittent Error??

By tom_baker

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 30 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by tom_baker
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Escape drivers (resized).jpg
Escape matrix (resized).jpg
#1 6 years ago

I recently got a Doctor Who machine in generally fine shape, but there is a problem that is driving me crazy. Most of the time, it doesn't successfully begin the W-H-O sequence. All lamps and switches are working properly; when the ball goes up the right ramp (W is lit), the machine knows that the ball has entered there, and the HANG ON lights up...but not the "H" (though the H lamp will light as part of various display sequences). And when the ball is sent up that chute, the switch identifies that the Hangon had been made, but the W-H-O does not continue and the O (top ramp) light. However, every now and then, it will start work fine for a while, and then stop. I looked for any poorly seated jumpers or chips, and haven't been able to find any. I'm not an electrical engineer, and don't know how to identify any errors in the solid state components or their programming! This unit came from Europe and was converted back to US, if that is at all relevant. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!

#2 6 years ago

Step one: When you say all the lamps and switches are working properly, did you test them in test mode?

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from CadillacMusic:

Step one: When you say all the lamps and switches are working properly, did you test them in test mode?

With a ball, not your finger?

#4 6 years ago

Yup, tested all switches with a ball, tossing it through the ramps where I couldn't reach. (Actually, not all lamps are working; the whole ESCAPE bank is off, but I figured that is something different and will get to that next.)

#5 6 years ago

If all the switches test ok, I'd look at the touch points on the power driver board. Clean power on the optos is kinda important. But check 'em all to be sure.

I was not expecting all the switches to work... my thought was the compensation code. But if all the switches register.
You did the Test14 switches too... yes?
faz

#6 6 years ago

Did you try a factory reset to be sure it's not some obscure difficulty setting?

#7 6 years ago

Okay, so I pulled out and reseated the jumpers on the power driver board, and checked all ICs looking well seated and it worked for a while. But then it stopped working again. Yes, I did test14 (the miniplayfield, right?). And did a factory reset too. It doesnt seem to be obviously associated with temperature (my other idea). So it recognizes that the W-H-O cycle has started when the ball goes up the right ramp, but the H lamp (which works) does not come on. Seems like it's something wrong with its brain...

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from tom_baker:

Okay, so I pulled out and reseated the jumpers on the power driver board, and checked all ICs looking well seated and it worked for a while. But then it stopped working again. Yes, I did test14 (the miniplayfield, right?). And did a factory reset too. It doesnt seem to be obviously associated with temperature (my other idea). So it recognizes that the W-H-O cycle has started when the ball goes up the right ramp, but the H lamp (which works) does not come on. Seems like it's something wrong with its brain...

If the PDB is getting too hot or the voltage regulator is not keeping things regulated, consider replacing it with a P5US

#9 6 years ago

In case no one else has asked yet are there any signs of corrosion on the CPU board below the battery holder? That is very common and can affect the chips for the switch matrix. There could also be remnants of the corrosion causing problems on the board or in the wiring connectors in that area.

#10 6 years ago

hmmmm... the PDB does not seem to be very hot; I am not sure about how to check the voltage regulator. No corrosion on the CPU board. But I didn't mention that there is a buzzy squeal, rather quiet, that is definitely associated with the display screen (it changes with the screen). It sounds like a ground hum that screens often have. It is plugged into a three prong outlet, and at one point, an electrician checked that the outlets were properly grounded, though the house is super old....

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from tom_baker:

hmmmm... the PDB does not seem to be very hot; I am not sure about how to check the voltage regulator. No corrosion on the CPU board. But I didn't mention that there is a buzzy squeal, rather quiet, that is definitely associated with the display screen (it changes with the screen). It sounds like a ground hum that screens often have. It is plugged into a three prong outlet, and at one point, an electrician checked that the outlets were properly grounded, though the house is super old....

I meant that if the voltage is either too high or too low. You can test on the 5v test point. With a multimeter, red on the test point, black on ground braid. The voltage needs to be about 5v, even 4.8 can be too low

#12 6 years ago

I find it suspicious that W lights up, but not H or O. H and O are flashers, not regular 44 lamps like W. Do these flashers work in test mode?

#13 6 years ago

Okay, tried that, 4.97 on the PDB test point, 12V Test point also checked out...and yes, the flashers do work in test mode....

#14 6 years ago
Quoted from tom_baker:

Okay, tried that, 4.97 on the PDB test point, 12V Test point also checked out...and yes, the flashers do work in test mode....

OK. When you tested the switches, did you check switch 36 and 37? Both need to be working to register the W shot.

#15 6 years ago

I think that was it! Thanks so much for pushing on that, aroden. I was too confident of the results of a single test. The housing for switch 37 is a bit loose. Usually when I test it, it works, but when the ball comes around the bend, if the housing has shifted, it can scoot past the wire. Bending the wire seems to have fixed it for now. But it doesnt seem possible to tighten the housing -- those screws don't seem to go into anything fixed.

Assuming that was indeed the problem, let me ask about the other major puzzle: all the ESCAPE lamps don't work, although the bulbs look fine; I replaced one with a new one to see if it made a difference. It doesn't. They don't go on in Test Mode, nor in General Illumination. Is there something obvious I can check? The ESCAPE switches all do work....

Thanks again!

#16 6 years ago

Are the lamps all in the same row or column on the lamp matrix? Check for a broken wire at the non-working lamp closest to the connector in the backbox.

#17 6 years ago

Did you check the connectors in the Backbox? J137-1 is common for all the ESCAPE lites. J133 pins 1,2,4,5,6,7 are for the each of the letters. Other than a loose wire or broken etch at the connector at the bulb board. Take the bulb board out and carefully check the connector on the board. Wiggle it and ohm it out.

Escape matrix (resized).jpgEscape matrix (resized).jpg

Escape drivers (resized).jpgEscape drivers (resized).jpg

#18 6 years ago

escape lamps are all on lamp board, I'd check for broken solder joints (or just reflow solder) on that board first.

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from wdennie:

I'd check for broken solder joints

That's most likely the cause.

#20 6 years ago

Okay, maybe I'm missing something -- I took out the board with the bulbs, took out the bulbs, and tested all the solder lines for continuity, and all had it. I don't know if there is anything else I should look for there? As for the connectors on the backbox, I did look, everything seemed fine. But also, lamps 17 and 18 (left drain and return) work, so that means it isn't J137, right? Can you let me know what it means to "ohm it out"? I'm sorta new at this....
thanks!

#21 6 years ago

Testing for continuity is "ohming it out".

-1
#22 6 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Testing for continuity is "ohming it out".

No, it's not. Measuring ohms is checking resistance, not continuity.

#23 6 years ago

Basically the same thing. Zero ohms or close to it is showing there’s a good connection or continuity. So none of the bulbs are working? Did you ever see them work?

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Testing for continuity is "ohming it out".

Quoted from dsuperbee:

No, it's not. Measuring ohms is checking resistance, not continuity.

Zero resistance IS continuity.

#25 6 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Zero resistance IS continuity.

Yeah, I know. But nobody calls checking for continuity ohming it out. They call it checking for continuity.

#26 6 years ago

With the lamp board connected, wiggle the connector up and down and side to side. Do the lamps work while doing this? If so, it's likely a solder joint issue. Just checking for continuity doesn't necessarily eliminate the issue as the board moves and flexes a lot when connected, potentially disrupting the joint.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from dsuperbee:

But nobody calls checking for continuity ohming it out.

Sorry, i’ve Been calling it that for at least 40 yrs. Just habit I guess. Call it what you like. Continuity is certainly a better description. Also, what @arorlden said is exactly what you should do. I was assuming that you already tried that. You could do the same with the connectors in the back box. If it’s not a connection problem then you’re looking at possibly a component problem. If Q98 is bad or something with that circuit. You do have a copy of the manual right?

#28 6 years ago

Ok, arolden, you are two for two. Pressing gently on the middle of the board causes the connection to be made. I tried just loosening the attaching screws in case they were bending the board down, but that didn't fix things. So I guess I just try to remove and resolder the connector? Thanks!

#29 6 years ago
Quoted from tom_baker:

Ok, arolden, you are two for two. Pressing gently on the middle of the board causes the connection to be made. I tried just loosening the attaching screws in case they were bending the board down, but that didn't fix things. So I guess I just try to remove and resolder the connector? Thanks!

Don't worry about the connector. Reflow solder around the header pins on the lamp board. That should do the trick.

#30 6 years ago

Great! Will do. Thanks again.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 20.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
4,800
Machine - For Sale
Mt Zion, IL
3,500 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Johnson City, TN
$ 20.00
Playfield - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 29.50
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
 
$ 79.00
Boards
PinballReplacementParts
 
$ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
4,000 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Gresham, OR
$ 10.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 14.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
 
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 69.50
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 329.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
5,750
Machine - For Sale
Bartlett, IL
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
£ 110.00
$ 109.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 30.00
Playfield - Other
YouBentMyWookie
 
From: $ 27.00
Boards
KAHR.US Circuits
 
$ 85.00

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/doctor-who-intermittent-error and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.