It has been becoming increasingly evident.....Pinball Machines are costing more, the Mod prices are also crazy w advent of 3d printer tech, LED options,etc. People have actually (do) made (make) a living in this area.....wonder if the true Ops are even making $$$ anymore. Are the Distro's making more $$$ by selling pins, or accessories? Certainly seems that as we criticize the price of new games, others have made bank in certain cases, with very little discretion.

Just a topic for discussion..I buy pins and mods...create certain ones for personal use, but don't do anything pinball wise for profit, rather just to personalize my machines.

Who really makes the $$$? Should be an interesting conversation....

The obvious answer....but I'd bet there are quite a few others that do quite well in secondary markets...

With great risk....

seems Op's will end up at the bottom of this....ironic, I suppose....

oops...poll added.....keep in mind I'm referring to investment vs. return

Hence my "for profit" qualifier....

Mike, you, and several people on here do it for the community and love of Pinball....Pushing the envelope to better the game. Not even a break even scenario.If you make a buck doing it, you'll be lucky (but really hope you can). Our hobby thrives w people like you, on the innovation front.

There are many others that are "for profit" however, and while passion decided their path, the goal is to turn a profit.Absolutely understand this model and support it.

The point:

Manufacturers have BOM, R&D, etc. and target a "x" percentage net profit to remain solvent, based on # of machines sold, warranty, etc.

Operators have to buy, route the machines, also targeting "x".

" For profit" Modders would also use this approach to remain fiscally solvent. Some make it, some don't...Just like the Manufacturers.

Just wanted to see some dialogue in this area, as while the volume of net cash may be lower, I'd be willing to bet the markup on some of this stuff is staggering, and going up, just like the machines...

I still think personally Ops are on the bottom. Who gets best return on investment ( most $$ in pocket for least spent)....That's the discussion.

Ultimately, I would want everyone to make money (Lloyd's point). I just don't think the manufacturer's are the only one benefiting from price hikes.

Could substitute "game" with "mod" and would be one of the most common phrases in the forum.

Again......I want EVERYONE to make $$$ that supports this hobby....just get a little weary of it always being the manufacturers fault......

Speaking of support - the ultimate/ selfless commitment to the betterment of our hobby (and strongest element of pinside) imho. There are people on here (we all know them) that go out of their way to help others with zero (or limited) fiscal reward.

Just a discussion on who you think is benefiting the most (fiscally) from all this?

Hence them opening a dedicated "mod shop".........trying to capture more of the revenue.....they wouldn't have done it if there wasn't $$$ to be made.

Analogy - most organized sporting, sports entertainment, and music events make far more margin on the t-shirts, peripherals, etc. than the actual event itself....

great stuff......

And a LOT of ROI that goes with it....

Without a doubt....craftspeople,artists,designers, etc. aren't even a part of this discussion...I'm grateful for all of them....

Thanks for the pure input, and as I suspected.....would be very tough to route these things for $$$ nowadays.....truly appreciate your passion to keep doing it...had (4x) youth soccer teams in greensboro, nc a couple weeks ago....went to an arcade in the mall, and a beautiful row of new modern sterns there...half my kids didn't even know what they were....was happy to show them....