(Topic ID: 224974)

Who really makes the most $$ ?


By MK6PIN

10 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by MK6PIN
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    Topic poll

    “who really makes the most $$”

    • Manufacturers 78 votes
      80%
    • Distributers 8 votes
      8%
    • Operators 1 vote
      1%
    • "for profit" Mod makers 11 votes
      11%

    (98 votes)

    #1 10 months ago

    It has been becoming increasingly evident.....Pinball Machines are costing more, the Mod prices are also crazy w advent of 3d printer tech, LED options,etc. People have actually (do) made (make) a living in this area.....wonder if the true Ops are even making $$$ anymore. Are the Distro's making more $$$ by selling pins, or accessories? Certainly seems that as we criticize the price of new games, others have made bank in certain cases, with very little discretion.

    Just a topic for discussion..I buy pins and mods...create certain ones for personal use, but don't do anything pinball wise for profit, rather just to personalize my machines.

    Who really makes the $$$? Should be an interesting conversation....

    #2 10 months ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    Who really makes the $$$?

    Gary Stern

    #3 10 months ago

    The obvious answer....but I'd bet there are quite a few others that do quite well in secondary markets...

    #4 10 months ago

    My guess...the owners and executives at Stern, game designers, owners of distributors. Just like most industries - the people who put their money at risk and have talents that are hard to find.

    #5 10 months ago

    The Flippers that buy LE's at pre-order bulk prices.

    #6 10 months ago
    Quoted from luckymoey:

    My guess...the owners and executives at Stern, game designers, owners of distributors. Just like most industries - the people who put their money at risk and have talents that are hard to find.

    With great risk....

    #7 10 months ago

    I hope everybody.

    LTG : )

    #8 10 months ago
    Quoted from GravitaR:

    The Flippers that buy LE's at pre-order bulk prices.

    How much is their discount?

    #9 10 months ago

    seems Op's will end up at the bottom of this....ironic, I suppose....

    #10 10 months ago

    oops...poll added.....keep in mind I'm referring to investment vs. return

    #11 10 months ago

    not me, but it was never my intention. I just want to enjoy myself playing pinball.

    #12 10 months ago

    Hagerty Peterson and their Stern shareholding.

    #13 10 months ago

    "for profit" Mod makers..

    We make a profit? It will be years before I get my R&D back.

    Bottom
    Of
    The
    List

    #14 10 months ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    "for profit" Mod makers..
    We make a profit? It will be years before I get my R&D back.
    Bottom
    Of
    The
    List

    Your mods are truly special and way way above anyone else’s standards. Everyone should have your apron dmd!

    #15 10 months ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    "for profit" Mod makers..
    We make a profit? It will be years before I get my R&D back.
    Bottom
    Of
    The
    List

    Hence my "for profit" qualifier....

    Mike, you, and several people on here do it for the community and love of Pinball....Pushing the envelope to better the game. Not even a break even scenario.If you make a buck doing it, you'll be lucky (but really hope you can). Our hobby thrives w people like you, on the innovation front.

    There are many others that are "for profit" however, and while passion decided their path, the goal is to turn a profit.Absolutely understand this model and support it.

    The point:

    Manufacturers have BOM, R&D, etc. and target a "x" percentage net profit to remain solvent, based on # of machines sold, warranty, etc.

    Operators have to buy, route the machines, also targeting "x".

    " For profit" Modders would also use this approach to remain fiscally solvent. Some make it, some don't...Just like the Manufacturers.

    Just wanted to see some dialogue in this area, as while the volume of net cash may be lower, I'd be willing to bet the markup on some of this stuff is staggering, and going up, just like the machines...

    I still think personally Ops are on the bottom. Who gets best return on investment ( most $$ in pocket for least spent)....That's the discussion.

    Ultimately, I would want everyone to make money (Lloyd's point). I just don't think the manufacturer's are the only one benefiting from price hikes.

    #16 10 months ago

    I have no problem with mod makers turning a profit. Many mods require a significant amount of work and/or talent to make, there’s the upfront cost of design and manufacture when you don’t know for sure people will buy it, and then the pain in the ass of dealing with shipping and customer support. I’m not so entitled that I get mad at the thought of paying someone for their time when they make toys for me to play with.

    If a mod is too expensive for your taste just don’t buy it - it’s not like you need it to play the game.

    #17 10 months ago

    Not this mod maker.
    I have lost tons making my Houdini mod's.
    I did it for the love of the game and to make it look better. Live and learn.

    #18 10 months ago
    Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

    Not this mod maker.
    I have lost tons making my Houdini mod's.
    I did it for the love of the game and to make it look better. Live and learn.

    what Houdini mods do you make? I'm in discussion to possibly get a Houdini and might need your goods!

    #19 10 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    I hope everybody.

    Exactly. It’s better for everyone. More mods, more games, more locations.

    And the more money WE (consumers) are making the more of this we get to buy. So I’d never hold it against someone that they’re working for a profit.

    #20 10 months ago

    Duplicate post

    #21 10 months ago

    Duplicate post

    #22 10 months ago
    Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

    Not this mod maker.
    I have lost tons making my Houdini mod's.
    I did it for the love of the game and to make it look better. Live and learn.

    Here you go. This isnt a for sale thread. If OP requests, Ill remove this.

    Archived after 88 days
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    #23 10 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    If a mod is too expensive for your taste just don’t buy it

    Could substitute "game" with "mod" and would be one of the most common phrases in the forum.

    Again......I want EVERYONE to make $$$ that supports this hobby....just get a little weary of it always being the manufacturers fault......

    Speaking of support - the ultimate/ selfless commitment to the betterment of our hobby (and strongest element of pinside) imho. There are people on here (we all know them) that go out of their way to help others with zero (or limited) fiscal reward.

    Just a discussion on who you think is benefiting the most (fiscally) from all this?

    #24 10 months ago

    There might be margin in mods, but there's no real volume. Biggest volume mod ever would only number in the thousands. Not tens of, or ever ever mass market. I really think only about 10% of owners take the glass off and tinker.

    Ops won't be making much, on pinball alone. An arcade owner with the other stuff is ok. Distributors are similar, in that they distribute all the other coin op too usually.

    And only one manufacturer is making any money. Well, two now, as I expect CGC is probably leveraging off all the IP they already had. Stern is a proper going concern. The others are in terminal red ink. Don't anyone kid themselves any other way.

    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    Just a discussion on who you think is benefiting the most (fiscally) from all this?

    To sum up.. Stern.

    #25 10 months ago
    Quoted from cougtv:

    Your mods are truly special and way way above anyone else’s standards

    Appreciate the nod, but will respectfully put Herg and Eli Curtz a cut above again. Oh, and Randy of course. I've always been inspired by those guys, and hope to match them if possible. But, yeah, there is a LOT of junk out there.

    #26 10 months ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    To sum up.. Stern.

    Hence them opening a dedicated "mod shop".........trying to capture more of the revenue.....they wouldn't have done it if there wasn't $$$ to be made.

    Analogy - most organized sporting, sports entertainment, and music events make far more margin on the t-shirts, peripherals, etc. than the actual event itself....

    great stuff......

    #27 10 months ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    But, yeah, there is a LOT of junk out there.

    And a LOT of ROI that goes with it....

    #28 10 months ago

    the licensors

    #29 10 months ago

    Not sure, but I'm pretty sure restorers make the least money after calculating all the labor involved.

    #30 10 months ago
    Quoted from rx3:

    Not sure, but I'm pretty sure restorers make the least money after calculating all the labor involved.

    Without a doubt....craftspeople,artists,designers, etc. aren't even a part of this discussion...I'm grateful for all of them....

    #31 10 months ago

    There are some great modders like Mike who are very talented and do it mostly for the love of pinball it seems. Kind of like the great effort he did with Alien LED's!!!

    And he wasn't looking to make a profit even though he certainly deserved it. Just a great service to the community!

    Then there are some other "modders" that crank out overpriced plastic junk for the most part. Total waste of money based on my experience but hey, people will buy what they like i guess.

    #32 10 months ago

    As an operator the ROI is not good for me. Pinball is fun & I personally enjoy it & I enjoy the themes, but they take years and years to ever make any money. HOWEVER because pinball is on an up swing they retain their value well & if I wanted to trade a pinball for other coin-operated equipment I can get a decent return. Only being honest from the business side from my experience... (15 years a route operator).

    #33 10 months ago
    Quoted from MoonwalkerArcade:

    As an operator the ROI is not good for me. Pinball is fun & I personally enjoy it & I enjoy the themes, but they take years and years to ever make any money. HOWEVER because pinball is on an up swing they retain their value well & if I wanted to trade a pinball for other coin-operated equipment I can get a decent return. Only being honest from the business side from my experience... (15 years a route operator).

    Thanks for the pure input, and as I suspected.....would be very tough to route these things for $$$ nowadays.....truly appreciate your passion to keep doing it...had (4x) youth soccer teams in greensboro, nc a couple weeks ago....went to an arcade in the mall, and a beautiful row of new modern sterns there...half my kids didn't even know what they were....was happy to show them....

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