Do you think Payout Pinball can make a comeback?

1

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#1 10 years ago

OP

ART

OLDPINGUY

Arts Arcade

12y 171K 12,507 7

This has always been on my mind, Several of my early pins are payout pins....an interesting twist to a game.
While I recognize certain states wont allow, do you think there is room for those that do, to allow a cash or equivalent
Payout?
High Score Payout, Super Jackpot Payout?

Maybe like EB awards, it gets harder? or fingerprint readers on the the flipper buttons so a Pinwizard cant monopolize
while "making money"

Would you play it in Vegas? Would more people play as they did 70 years ago for not only the entertainment,
but the chance to win $5.00 or $25.00?

What do you think?

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#2 10 years ago

M D

maddog14

Pinside member

12y 74,650 3,298 11

I'm down with this.

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#3 10 years ago

KIM

pinballkim

Pinside member

12y 74,300 1,025

I would play pay out pinball way over slots. I wish this were an option still.

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#4 10 years ago

???

Shoot_Again

Pinside member

Vancouver, WA

12y 83,400 8,453 2

Who wouldn't play. Think the goverment would ruin this if it ever came to pass a second time.

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#5 10 years ago

OP

ART

OLDPINGUY

Arts Arcade

12y 171K 12,507 7

What kind of payouts work work? Both in dollars and features?
Do you think if a game was designed for payout, there might be a completely different way to do the rules?
I wouldnt want to turn it into a one ball 2 minute timed game...casinos might want that, but wouldnt a bunch of payout pins draw a bigger crowd?

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1

#6 10 years ago

JJZ

toyotaboy

RandOM Pinball

Allyn, WA

12y 184K 11,937 3 14

How about instead of cash payout, one grand champ wins a NIB stern pinball? 2nd and 3rd place wins credit towards purchase of one

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#7 10 years ago

OP

ART

OLDPINGUY

Arts Arcade

12y 171K 12,507 7

Quoted from toyotaboy:
How about instead of cash payout, one grand champ wins a NIB stern pinball? 2nd and 3rd place wins credit towards purchase of one

How cool would that be...!!! Do you mean like a progressive Slot machine tied to casinos? Or like who ever gets to the insane super duper end wins a game?

And how brilliant is it to earn credit towards a game! Low cost giveaway. a $4000 cost payout that would draw Tons of people. Id stay in that Casino and play!

It wont make them money, but it sure would bring people in!

Id play it at the corner store too, if it was allowed and tied in!

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#8 10 years ago

???

silver_spinner

AR Gaming Rentals (MI)

11y 77,550 3,046

stern tops tournaments do it right now.

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#9 10 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Hopkins, MN

12y 191K 56,991 24 7

Likely not.

Most states want gambling. Most states don't want partners.

And too labor intensive or the existing casinos would already be doing it.

LTG : )

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1

#10 10 years ago

JAS

Pugsley

Pinside member

Valparaiso, IN

12y 56,400 923 9

Then it would fall back to being a gambling device and we would be right back where we started.

0

#11 10 years ago

JJ

Hoopjohn

Inactive member

Eagle River, WI

12y 52,400 495 4 32

Agree with LTG 100%. Pins are too labor intensive.

Vending ops in Wisconsin generate the bulk of there revenue via (illegal) video gambling machines. So lucrative are the machines, that they can pay for themselves in as little as 3 -4 months. I'm told the typical video gambling machine costs $ 3500 - $4000. Compare that to the 5 year typical payoff period for pins.

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1

#12 10 years ago

SS

Shapeshifter

Pinside member

13y 150K 10,468 8 144

Only work if whilst locking a ball for example you get a free spin of a wheel and random chance to win cash prize.

No point of cash prizes for high scores as only the select few would win.......

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#13 10 years ago

???

lladnip

Inactive member

13y 32,400 972

OP
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:
This has always been on my mind, Several of my early pins are payout pins....an interesting twist to a game.
While I recognize certain states wont allow, do you think there is room for those that do, to allow a cash or equivalent
Payout?
High Score Payout, Super Jackpot Payout?
Maybe like EB awards, it gets harder? or fingerprint readers on the the flipper buttons so a Pinwizard cant monopolize
while "making money"
Would you play it in Vegas? Would more people play as they did 70 years ago for not only the entertainment,
but the chance to win $5.00 or $25.00?
What do you think?

an awsome idea- but one you or i will never live to see- the forces in power want nothing to do with it, goverment dont like it because its them gambeling and pure evil unless its there backed lottery. the proponets of gambeling (not players nessary) but the providers wont like it because its exspencive- well compaired a slot machine.

ideally it would work like this- you pay say a buck or five or what ever a game, then per shot or task acomplished they pay you back as you play just spiting money at you out the front of the machine- screw points i want cash....

anyways great idea- huge fun and profit be made- but it will never happen

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#14 10 years ago

SUS

SuS

Pinside member

11y 72,400 259 102

Casinos seem to only like games where they can tightly control the odds of winning. Not sure how this would match up.

0

#15 10 years ago

OP

ART

OLDPINGUY

Arts Arcade

12y 171K 12,507 7

I think that everyone is right, Government certainly is an issue, and I agree it, by itself, is not a stand alone money maker. Too much square footage, maintenance, low return in a casino.
I felt more as a crowd draw. Casinos on my last visit have gotten boring, unless you play the tables.
The younger market, 20-30 years old, no longer sits at slots for hours.
Slots have grown in the sense of CSI, Ghostbusters...movies, music, and TV shows, but your dollar disappears in 10 seconds. Even coin pushers are gone.
I find many casinos mostly empty. The middle class has eroded, and they want more for their dollar.
When this same economic disparity was addressed in the 1930's, they invented all different forms of gambling machines...payout pinball being one of many.
Certainly, one could not expect a wall of machines, you are right, too much hassle, but some casinos already have
arcades. Would it be much different then a ticket dispenser already offered on Pins redeemed for cash?
Do you think if a single pin that is on location would gain more revenue if it paid out?
Would any ops here, other then govt bs, like to see a game payout?

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#16 10 years ago

UUG

minnesota13

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 61,650 1,474

Unfortunately payout pins can't make money fast enough to compete with other devices in terms of $/hr. Then you have to be concerned with cheating, maintenance, and network linking. A payout pinball machine foot print also has a problem of less revenue per square foot.

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#17 10 years ago

???

lladnip

Inactive member

13y 32,400 972

OP
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:
I think that everyone is right, Government certainly is an issue, and I agree it, by itself, is not a stand alone money maker. Too much square footage, maintenance, low return in a casino.
I felt more as a crowd draw. Casinos on my last visit have gotten boring, unless you play the tables.
The younger market, 20-30 years old, no longer sits at slots for hours.
Slots have grown in the sense of CSI, Ghostbusters...movies, music, and TV shows, but your dollar disappears in 10 seconds. Even coin pushers are gone.
I find many casinos mostly empty. The middle class has eroded, and they want more for their dollar.
When this same economic disparity was addressed in the 1930's, they invented all different forms of gambling machines...payout pinball being one of many.
Certainly, one could not expect a wall of machines, you are right, too much hassle, but some casinos already have
arcades. Would it be much different then a ticket dispenser already offered on Pins redeemed for cash?
Do you think if a single pin that is on location would gain more revenue if it paid out?
Would any ops here, other then govt bs, like to see a game payout?</blockquot

i cant talk for ops- im not one of them, if there in it just for money they can get better return eleswhere for much less trouble. imo if i was an op in it for the money.

now for the player, i can answer- and it is an easy yes------ if i could walk into a up to a slot or a pin its a no brainer- the pin is more interactive and there for a million times more fun-imo(and i own a slot its ok but seldom played) i bet i do100 pins games for every time i played the slot
now if there was a pin and therewas chance i could make some on a game from time to time it would be a huge plus im my mindset, as opposed to now where i kiss good-by what ever i put in one and play for pure fun only....... put another way, if i could play one of 2 pins and one might pay out and the other not, i know which one i would play and im sure im not the only one......

pins could actually be an awsome gambeling device its in there blood- and you give some one a flipper they feel there in control you could design a game that could be truely a money pig------

interesting topic

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#18 10 years ago

???

lladnip

Inactive member

13y 32,400 972

sorry oldpinguy, i posted under your heading- oops

0

2

#19 10 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

How about instead of a cash payout, you spend money on your E-Plate card and it unlocks hidden code on the machine?

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#20 10 years ago

SCC

mrgone

Pinside member

Casper, WY

12y 119K 5,181 4 54

I hope gambling pinball never comes back. I understand its a different world today. it took nearly 40 years for pinball to shake off the stigma of being a gambling device and not a game of skill. to go back to that would hurt the legacy of the game imo.

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#21 10 years ago

BLY

MrBally

Pinside member

Paradise, NV

12y 141K 13,936 22 1

In most gaming Jurisdictions, Electronic Gaming Machines must be games of chance, not skill-based unless the "skill" determines a low-level prize. Exceptions are made for card-based games but those start with a shuffled deck so the game is randomized at the outset.

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#22 10 years ago

WEB

Magic_Mike

Pinside member

Atlanta, GA

11y 56,550 2,985 20

WMS "Token Pin" concept failed with Safecracker.

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#23 10 years ago

JJ

jjsrt8

Pinside member

11y 46,050 949 1

Well we have ticket awarded pinball machines out here but crappy prizes and you would spend a 100 just to get a 20 dollar item.

0

#24 10 years ago

OP

ART

OLDPINGUY

Arts Arcade

12y 171K 12,507 7

It is interesting that we are comfortable to play in tournaments, and award monetary prizes, but reluctant to believe that
it wouldnt work if the game did so by itself.

Quoted from jjsrt8:
Well we have ticket awarded pinball machines out here but crappy prizes and you would spend a 100 just to get a 20 dollar item.

Cost of doing business. Not so good. I have a drawer full of chinese finger traps and icy balls.

0

#25 10 years ago

MOM

Sharon

Inactive member

Severn, MD

11y 22,650 300 5

I'd love to add a payout pin to my collection.

0

#26 10 years ago

JDB

Joe_Blasi

Pinside member

Des Plaines, IL

11y 39,900 2,402

OP
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:
This has always been on my mind, Several of my early pins are payout pins....an interesting twist to a game.
While I recognize certain states wont allow, do you think there is room for those that do, to allow a cash or equivalent
Payout?
High Score Payout, Super Jackpot Payout?
Maybe like EB awards, it gets harder? or fingerprint readers on the the flipper buttons so a Pinwizard cant monopolize
while "making money"
Would you play it in Vegas? Would more people play as they did 70 years ago for not only the entertainment,
but the chance to win $5.00 or $25.00?
What do you think?

I think in Vegas / NV and other places you can use the bingo games with payout hoppers.

I think in NJ you can have bingo games with token / ticket payout.

In the UK they have legal coin pushers / other semi skill ticket payout games in the us that over there are setup to pay coins out. You may need to skill to get to the big pay area but the big pay area is a stop the light game that is rigged. rigged as in like the UK Fruit Machines that will cheat to hit there pay out %

Sigma Derby is still being used in casinos and that needs up keep but people play it so maybe some kind of bingo pinball can work in casinos.

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#27 10 years ago

?Z?

phishrace

Pinside member

Unknown

12y 46,900 4,913

OP
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:
While I recognize certain states wont allow, do you think there is room for those that do, to allow a cash or equivalent

The 'competition' in my town just got busted:

"Additionally, Glang said Le was the de facto enforcer of the gambling operation, which once involved as many as 30 coffee shops in the city. Only three shops are named in the federal indictment, which said that in a nine-month period, one of the shops took in $200,000 from gambling. The indictment states that money still up for confiscation "includes, but is not limited to" about $403,000.

While asserting that Le should be remanded, Glang accused him of using violence and intimidation to push*a*specific*type*of*machine on shop owners and *collect*half*of*the*gambling*proceeds*from*each*location, citing at least two years of wiretaps aided by a pair of owners who became federal informants."

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_24617323/san-jose-fed-hearing-reveals-coffee-shop-gambling

Can you guess what that specific type of machine was?

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#28 10 years ago

BLY

MrBally

Pinside member

Paradise, NV

12y 141K 13,936 22 1

Quoted from phishrace:
The 'competition' in my town just got busted:
"Additionally, Glang said Le was the de facto enforcer of the gambling operation, which once involved as many as 30 coffee shops in the city. Only three shops are named in the federal indictment, which said that in a nine-month period, one of the shops took in $200,000 from gambling. The indictment states that money still up for confiscation "includes, but is not limited to" about $403,000.
While asserting that Le should be remanded, Glang accused him of using violence and intimidation to push*a*specific*type*of*machine on shop owners and *collect*half*of*the*gambling*proceeds*from*each*location, citing at least two years of wiretaps aided by a pair of owners who became federal informants."
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_24617323/san-jose-fed-hearing-reveals-coffee-shop-gambling
Can you guess what that specific type of machine was?

Bingo! Were they SS or EM's? Unless we are talking Cherry Masters....

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#29 10 years ago

DX

DarthXaos

Inactive member

12y 25,400 540

Casinos wouldn't want them as the Elwins/Sharpes/Kerins of the world could show up and cost them billions of dollars

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#30 10 years ago

?Z?

phishrace

Pinside member

Unknown

12y 46,900 4,913

Quoted from MrBally:
Bingo! Were they SS or EM's? Unless we are talking Cherry Masters....

Pusher slot machines. With real money being pushed. I doubt there was any violence or intimidation used to get them in the businesses. If you're a real gangsta, aren't you going to take more than 50%? That's the standard split.

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#31 10 years ago

BLY

MrBally

Pinside member

Paradise, NV

12y 141K 13,936 22 1

Quoted from phishrace:
Pusher slot machines. With real money being pushed. I doubt there was any violence or intimidation used to get them in the businesses. If you're a real gangsta, aren't you going to take more than 50%? That's the standard split.

Love 'em. Especially when the op folds up a twenty into the size of a postage stamp and places it on top of the pile of quarters. Even better is the way the side coins fall off into another cash box tha the location owner doesn't always know about.

0

#32 10 years ago

JDB

Joe_Blasi

Pinside member

Des Plaines, IL

11y 39,900 2,402

Quoted from MrBally:
Love 'em. Especially when the op folds up a twenty into the size of a postage stamp and places it on top of the pile of quarters. Even better is the way the side coins fall off into another cash box tha the location owner doesn't always know about.

That side place is some thing that most players don't know about and is the profit that the game makes. Center drops go to the player.

0

1

#33 10 years ago

CMW

KloggMonkey

Pinside member

11y 47,150 764

Slots are super boring. I think that more physical games like coin pushers, ice cold beer, etc where you win money or a beer would be good in bars, if the laws would allow it.

IMO modern pinball doesn't have the game-play or rules structure that makes sense for payout. Small skill games like Bally Skill Roll or a bingo pinball are at that level, i.e. redemption games subbing coin for tickets.
You put wack-a-mole in Ceasar's Palace and I'm there.

0

#34 10 years ago

OP

ART

OLDPINGUY

Arts Arcade

12y 171K 12,507 7

I think in the end result, We love games! Vids! Pins! Pushers!
and I started the thread to see how how others felt, as Casinos are just boring these days.
If one looks in antique arcade books, and I have lots of old slots, I felt that something should be brought back,
because we want to go to a casino to play games!
Money payout sure helps!

With the responses, does it make sense then, if a Casino held a nightly, or hourly tournament, limiting entries, so the masters cant rule, would they get a crowd? Would you stay at a hotel or visit because you could enter a short
tournament for money? Same as a payout game, but human controlled.

i just think pinballs on the casino floor may not make casinos money, but would it bring in crowds?

Quoted from KloggMonkey:
You put wack-a-mole in Ceasar's Palace and I'm there.

THAT would be great!

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#35 10 years ago

BLY

MrBally

Pinside member

Paradise, NV

12y 141K 13,936 22 1

<<< You put wack-a-mole in Ceasar's Palace and I'm there.
THAT would be great!
>>>

There are Whack-A-Moles 1 1/2 miles North of Caesar's Palace at Circus-Circus and a mile South at New York, New York. Made by Bob's Space Racers of Florida fame.

0

#36 10 years ago

JDB

Joe_Blasi

Pinside member

Des Plaines, IL

11y 39,900 2,402

OP
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:
I think in the end result, We love games! Vids! Pins! Pushers!
and I started the thread to see how how others felt, as Casinos are just boring these days.
If one looks in antique arcade books, and I have lots of old slots, I felt that something should be brought back,
because we want to go to a casino to play games!
Money payout sure helps!
With the responses, does it make sense then, if a Casino held a nightly, or hourly tournament, limiting entries, so the masters cant rule, would they get a crowd? Would you stay at a hotel or visit because you could enter a short
tournament for money? Same as a payout game, but human controlled.
i just think pinballs on the casino floor may not make casinos money, but would it bring in crowds?

THAT would be great!

I miss coin payout that sound is so cool

0

#37 10 years ago

JDB

Joe_Blasi

Pinside member

Des Plaines, IL

11y 39,900 2,402

OP
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:
I think in the end result, We love games! Vids! Pins! Pushers!
and I started the thread to see how how others felt, as Casinos are just boring these days.
If one looks in antique arcade books, and I have lots of old slots, I felt that something should be brought back,
because we want to go to a casino to play games!
Money payout sure helps!
With the responses, does it make sense then, if a Casino held a nightly, or hourly tournament, limiting entries, so the masters cant rule, would they get a crowd? Would you stay at a hotel or visit because you could enter a short
tournament for money? Same as a payout game, but human controlled.
i just think pinballs on the casino floor may not make casinos money, but would it bring in crowds?

THAT would be great!

Well Sigma Derby at MGM and the D is a big draw as well.