(Topic ID: 145843)

Do you think it's right for a vendor to mark up a machine?


By Pins4me

4 years ago



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  • 56 posts
  • 44 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Shastings
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    -3
    #1 4 years ago

    I called around today for a pro model of a Stern title.
    One of the vendors wanted $700 more because they had that title in stock.
    Now I get it, supply and demand set the market price, but when most vendors are selling pro models for an average of $4650-$4800, does it seem fair to mark up a title because they have them in stock?
    I want to get this machine before Christmas. If I'm willing to wait until 1st - 2nd week of January. Its a lot cheaper.

    17
    #2 4 years ago

    U said it. Supply and demand. That vendor is taking the risk of stocking extra units on his side

    #3 4 years ago

    SAle from a vendor is the same as a sale from a person here...if the price is too high it won't sell.

    #5 4 years ago

    Yes it's fair. They are not exactly making a ton of money with each sale, so if they can squeeze more out because they have it in-stock and you have strict time requirements, then good for them (bad for you). Sorry dude.

    #6 4 years ago

    You'll have to decide if the $700 is worth the extra 30 - 45 days you'll get out of getting one now. Or roughly $15-24 /day .

    #7 4 years ago

    vendor can charge whatever he wants. you as the buyer gets to decide where to spend the money. What is the wait worth to you?

    #8 4 years ago

    Personally, I'd wait, but it's your money.

    I hardly ever need to get anything *right now*. So if something costs less a little later, I can wait. I'm also the kind of person who doesn't have to go see a movie opening day.

    #9 4 years ago

    Wow. Is this a real question?
    Have you noticed that nearly every product is available over a range of prices?
    Why do you think that is?

    #10 4 years ago

    I always say: They can charge whatever they want. Whether someone is willing to pay is the question.

    #11 4 years ago

    I wonder what Stern would say about that practice.

    #12 4 years ago

    Wonder what game it is? something Stern is currently making?

    If you don't like the price, speak up with your dollar and take it elsewhere, if its a current game there will be many other vendors that will get it to you for a lower price.

    #13 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jasontaps:

    I wonder what Stern would say about that practice.

    Stern would likely say that it is too cheap. MSRP is the price of the game. Thus why no one is advertising their lower than MSRP price.

    #14 4 years ago

    I can see where you are coming form OP, but as you and others have stated, supply and demand.

    Fair is where pigs are judged.

    #15 4 years ago
    Quoted from iwantansi:

    Wonder what game it is? something Stern is currently making?
    If you don't like the price, speak up with your dollar and take it elsewhere, if its a current game there will be many other vendors that will get it to you for a lower price.

    I think they want it before Christmas. As we saw in that video, it does look like Stern put slightly older titles back into production from time to time. Probably Walking Dead or Star Trek.

    Quoted from inhomearcades:

    Stern would likely say that it is too cheap. MSRP is the price of the game. Thus why no one is advertising their lower than MSRP price.

    Where are the Stern MSRP prices listed?

    #16 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jasontaps:

    Where are the Stern MSRP prices listed?

    On the website in any game section

    http://www.sternpinball.com/games/game-of-thrones/pro

    #17 4 years ago

    Too funny, I have visited those pages a bunch of times but never saw those prices. Wow, almost $6k for a pro (msrp)

    #18 4 years ago

    If a vendor or anybody else marks up a machine it would tend to lessen the value. Just like nicks or chips would.

    #19 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pins4me:

    One of the vendors wanted $700 more because they had that title in stock.

    Order it from someone else.

    Even if you **think** you will get it by Christmas, something crazy will happen because of holiday shipping and you won't get it in time.

    #20 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pins4me:

    One of the vendors wanted $700 more because they had that title in stock.
    Now I get it, supply and demand set the market price, but when most vendors are selling pro models for an average of $4650-$4800

    So just checking here, did the vendor who wanted $700 "more" ask for $5500 on a game with an MSRP of $5995?

    I just want to see how bad the mark "up" is. Does giving less of a discount when demand is high even count as a markup?

    #21 4 years ago

    Vendor has the right to do that in my opinion, but remember it when you order a new pin -and support another distributor instead.

    #22 4 years ago

    The extra markup is the price you pay for procrastination. Plus if you can afford to give away brand-new pinball machines as Christmas presents then you can afford the markup. You're either rich or blow way too much money on Christmas presents.

    Pinball machines aren't the only thing that are marked up right before Christmas due to high demand. Remember the "Tickle Me Elmo"?

    Luckily it's a free country and no one is forcing you to buy it.

    #23 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pins4me:

    I called around today for a pro model of a Stern title.
    One of the vendors wanted $700 more because they had that title in stock.
    Now I get it, supply and demand set the market price, but when most vendors are selling pro models for an average of $4650-$4800, does it seem fair to mark up a title because they have them in stock?
    I want to get this machine before Christmas. If I'm willing to wait until 1st - 2nd week of January. Its a lot cheaper.

    The vendor bought the machine. It's his now. He can sell it for any price, blow it up, turn it into a bed, its his. Who are you to care what someone else does with *his* stuff?

    #24 4 years ago

    The vendor had every right to do it. The potential problem for them is losing future sales because of it. I got an outrageous quote on IMVE after the first run from a very well known vender around here......I won't go to him in the future. Oh and I didn't buy that particular IMVE.

    #25 4 years ago

    Pins are a slim margin item, and if it retails for 5500, and they sell at retail during a joliday- I don't blame them. It might not be the optimal time for everyone to buy, but if you want it and have the scratch- someone will. It doesn't make them a tool.

    #26 4 years ago

    U think thats bad I called around to a bunch of the more popular vendes for a walking dead premium few weeks ago and prices ranged from 6300 to 7500 lol I cldnt believe it .. I know its becoming very popular now but geez thats a huge difference . Most were above 6500 by the way .

    #27 4 years ago

    Yes. It's a business, not unicef

    #28 4 years ago

    I keep a pinball pricing spreadsheet. Anytime I make calls for a pin I always ask for all the pricing concerning every game available. The variation between distributors is amazing and so is the variation from the same distributor throughout the year on the same games. don't be afraid to make an offer and hold firm

    -2
    #29 4 years ago
    Quoted from XpadreX:

    Pins are a slim margin item, and if it retails for 5500, and they sell at retail during a joliday- I don't blame them. It might not be the optimal time for everyone to buy, but if you want it and have the scratch- someone will. It doesn't make them a tool.

    Everyone says how slim the margins are but best I can figure it is on average 15%+ profit margins gross. This is based upon lots of research, years of documenting NIB pricing info and trends, and recently back office friends at dealers that know the accounting. Seems pretty good margins to me.

    #30 4 years ago

    Relative to what? What sort of volume? Less overhead, and any loss to flooring / opportunity cost for stocking games not preordered? It is always a challenge when one person's hobby is another person's career. If someone wants to gross a $45k/yr income, how many pins must they sell?

    Percentages don't pay light bills, revenue does. 10% or 15% on a $4500 anything isn't big money.

    #31 4 years ago

    I always enjoy watching people guess the margins distributors make on pins. The distributor pricing doesn't leave much room for profit. In fact I know of two distributors that sell for $1 over their cost. i don't know why everyone thinks distributors make tons or money, but threads like this are what perpetuate it.

    -1
    #32 4 years ago
    Quoted from iwantansi:

    Wonder what game it is? something Stern is currently making?
    If you don't like the price, speak up with your dollar and take it elsewhere, if its a current game there will be many other vendors that will get it to you for a lower price.

    I am looking for a Star Trek Pro. As someone else pointed out, I am hoping to get it by Christmas. Other vendors wouldn't be able to ship until after the new year.

    Quoted from DefaultGen:

    So just checking here, did the vendor who wanted $700 "more" ask for $5500 on a game with an MSRP of $5995?
    I just want to see how bad the mark "up" is.

    The mark up is $700 higher than most vendors are selling the same title for.

    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    . . . if you can afford to give away brand-new pinball machines as Christmas presents then you can afford the markup. You're either rich or blow way too much money on Christmas presents.
    Pinball machines aren't the only thing that are marked up right before Christmas due to high demand. Remember the "Tickle Me Elmo"?

    @$@?! When did I say I was giving it away as a Christmas gift? I want it for Christmas to share with friends on Christmas day.
    Also when Tickle Me Elmos, Furbies or what ever toy were in demand, WalMart did not mark them up. They sold at their normal selling price. In fact, sometimes they were on sale!

    I agree with those of you who said they can charge what they want, and normally I would say your right. But make that your all year long price, not on demand price.
    I also agree there isn't a ton of profit margin on merchandise. I couldn't speak for Stern, but years ago I was a department manager at a store so we has cost sheets. An item such as a Nintendo that sold for $199, had a $6-$10 markup. That was it.
    I'm not saying the vendor I called doesn't deserve a profit, but not be greedy.

    #33 4 years ago

    Yes, they has every right. The vendors take on all the risk in this hobby because Stern does not hold inventory.

    #34 4 years ago

    Yes, this called is capitalism.
    Have you ever had to unload a half dozen NIB machines that were "stinkers" and end up selling them as an overstock loss?
    It is a gamble.
    Profit margins are sometimes less than $1000, that is why platinum distributors can give better pricing.
    Many times Bally/Williams games sat in warehouses for months, and distributors kept hoping some operator would buy them.
    Some could sit on them indefinitely, some could not.
    Some even passed games around to other distributors in "trades".

    Ultimately, you pay what you want as a collector, which is still not the market for pro model Stern machines.
    You hold the cards, you make the choices.
    If you do not like one vendor, walk away.
    The aftermarket is FLOODED with certain titles, that unfortunately are inflated due to people actually thinking they are worth more.
    They are not.
    It is just like buying a new car and driving it off the lot, you pay for the entertainment value.

    Wait until the spring, and you will get a better deal from a distributor.
    A LOT better.
    It like what happens with TAF every Halloween, it is laughable.
    If you are not in Europe, feel fortunate.
    The mark ups are EXTREME!

    In fact, you may get an even better deal than that when a private owner gets bored of the new toy after Christmas.
    However, if you are looking some type of LE or Special Edition because you decide to change your mind, it might be time to break open the piggy bank.
    Many machines may not have the future small production runs.
    I waited for two years to buy my Metallica Premium for many reasons, and it paid off.
    Price match EVERYTHING, and you will be surprised at the price spectrum.

    There are plenty of distributors that say they will "price match" other distributors, but in reality that is not entirely true.
    Shipping and "rules" get people all the time.
    Taxes come right up behind.
    Read the "fine print".
    Try not to run to the Cabbage Patch Kids aisle too fast in enthusiasm.

    #35 4 years ago

    When I got into the hobby, my first game was a Tron Pro. It was (just) out of production, before they re-did the title a few times, but we didn't know that then. There was a seller on Pinside with nibs, priced several hundred dollars more than they were, because there were hardly any nibs left at that time.

    I bought it, and I loved it. Stern did another run of them later, but I did not care, I had mine in my possession for that time.

    It was my choice to buy it at the inflated price. I could have chosen not to. And that's the key, it was my choice. It's a free market. I feel no ill will towards that seller.

    #36 4 years ago

    MSRP is $5995, somebody has one in stock and offers to sell it for $5500 so the distributor is actually selling it AT A DISCOUNT in time for you to have it for Xmas. You want a better deal but can't get it when you want it and are offended... pretty much sums up the situation ?

    The distributor that has it in stock means he has unloaded it from a delivery trailer and stacked it in storage (and paid for that space), he has paid for the pin in advance (so his cash is tied up in merchandise not earning interest in some sort of investment) now he must arrange for a shipper and see that is gets shipped out (perhaps paying dock helpers to move it). He wants to be be compensated for his time/efforts. If you want something he doesn't have in stock I'm sure he will accept a lower price based on lower efforts.

    The other distributors don't have it in stock, have no time or energy invested and will place an order to have it shipped directly to you when available. They will be compensated proportionately for their efforts.

    You feel screwed because YOU imposed a deadline on yourself and it will cost you ... did you miss any good deals on Black Friday? are you pissed because they don't offer the same deal all year? Walmart sells tens of thousands of a product(s) at $6 so they can afford a lower margin you can't compare that to a small business like a pin distributor so don't try.

    #37 4 years ago

    How is buying a pinball any different than buying a new car, a TV, iPhone, or any other electronic device?
    Shop around for the best price you're willing to pay.

    #38 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pins4me:

    But make that your all year long price, not on demand price.

    The price is the same all year round - it's the MSRP of $5995. It's the discount that varies.

    In almost every retail business, Xmas is where most profit for the year is made. It's what keeps a lot of retailers afloat. It compensates them for the discounting they need to offer at other times of the year. If you want bigger discounts, give up dreams of having it before Xmas.

    Now if they were charging $700 over MSRP on an in production game just because of XMAS that may be seen as opportunistic, and maybe even Stern would have an issue with it.

    #39 4 years ago

    The distributors that don't have it now might also be giving less of a discount before Christmas if they did have it.

    #40 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pins4me:

    I'm not saying the vendor I called doesn't deserve a profit, but not be greedy.

    Every distributor can sell games at whatever price they feel is fair with taking into account holding cost, supply and demand and service. The distributors are required to follow MAP pricing when advertising in public, but can sell at whatever price they choose. I think because of the high cost of new pinball machines it has decreased the potential profit margins for many distributors. It has become competitive and some distributors are not all about maximizing potential profit and are happy to sell for a couple hundred over their cost. Usually they can make more on Premium and LE models. I have seen the amount of work that goes into selling new machines for a couple hundred in profit. If there are any issues and the distributor needs to get involved with warranties and service then they are basically breaking even with having to allocate time and resources. For the amount of work that goes into distribution, every distributor should have the right to price accordingly in order to support their business model. I have purchased from almost every distributor and I have learned which ones care about service and don't try to take advantage with excessive margins. Sometimes patience pays off when waiting to purchase a new machine. Stern has been producing Star Trek Pros again and they should become available to all distributors soon. I personally would not want to spend $700 extra to have one by Christmas. I would spend maybe $200 extra if I knew I was buying from a reputable dealer that would ensure delivery before Christmas. Good Luck and I hope you find one.

    #41 4 years ago

    Anything can happen this time of the year.

    Two days after cyber Monday my wife informs me we need to buy an Xbox 1 gaming console for Christmas. When I looked online most of the popular bundles were already sold out at Microsoft.com, Best Buy, Walmart, etc. Amazon had one of the Madden bundles left, for $100 over MSRP.

    I bought a lesser bundle from Best Buy, but looked later at the Amazon site and that one was sold, proving as long as someone will buy it at that price, it's OK to list it at that price.

    #42 4 years ago

    I've also gotten some insane quotes from a couple of vendors that are always talked about on Pinside as being "good guys"... as a consumer, you take the information and keep looking.

    Don't buy...wait for a better price

    #43 4 years ago

    For the most part pinbuyers are the cheapest people on the planet and are not happy unless the seller is losing money on the deal.
    Back when I got into the hobby and old timer told me when rebuilding these games every dollar you put into parts is a dollar lost, people just don't want to pay.
    He was right on the money.
    Just the way it is and if you don't like the price don't buy.
    As another poster stated with holiday shipping you probably won't get it by Christmas anyway.

    #44 4 years ago

    "Do you think it's right for a vendor to mark up a machine?"

    Wow, welcome to the age of consumerism. Isn't asking this question like asking if its okay that a business attempt to try to make a profit? Really? The vendor isn't running a charity operation, and your not covering or managing their losses when things don't go well, or complaining when a pin is too cheap, right? So I don't think it's fair to try to manage their profits either, you have choices if you don't like the prices, use them!

    In the end, its' the "market" that will decide the price of the pin.

    Just my 2 cents

    #45 4 years ago

    Theres got to be someone that has one nib for sale at regular price, I wouldn't pay any markup. I prefer to deal with someone that would lower the price a bit and sell more and build a solid customer base than buy one from someone that is just out to make a $

    #46 4 years ago

    Have you ever been into a whole foods?

    elite-daily-envision-800x400.jpg

    BrJg3hMCMAA-rWY.jpg

    #47 4 years ago

    Unless cost is over msrp it's not a markup. If you can't wait, then you have to pay what they are selling for. Never hurts to try to haggle price down.

    #48 4 years ago

    Vendors can charge what they want. It's their business. That said, it's a bullshit move to mark it up right before Christmas, so I'd probably wait until after Christmas and buy it from another vendor.

    #49 4 years ago

    Remember: The "S" in MSRP means "Suggested". Doesn't mean the price is written in stone.

    #50 4 years ago
    Quoted from tacshose:

    Everyone says how slim the margins are but best I can figure it is on average 15%+ profit margins gross.

    That's a nice margin on $5500.

    Mcdonald's makes 19% on a $6 meal......

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