(Topic ID: 219830)

Do you have the right legs on your pin?


By Colsond3

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 128 posts
  • 41 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by Mardi-Gras-Man
  • Topic is favorited by 17 Pinsiders

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    There are 128 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
    #101 9 months ago
    Quoted from Colsond3:

    EATPM was originally a Bally game released by Midway, but under the Williams parent corp. The Bally name is present in the upper right backglass and on the speaker panel.

    Ah, thanks for the clarification.

    #102 9 months ago
    Quoted from Mardi-Gras-Man:

    Yes of course, it's not an 'absolute' black. But I think when I say 'Black' everyone knows what is meant, and it won't be confusing when it comes to the grey legs from Stern.

    Bally used Gunmetal gray, or dark gray on a vast amount of games, even on their earlier EM games in the 70’s (ie., Vampire, Cosmos, Skyrocket, etc.)

    #103 9 months ago
    Quoted from Colsond3:

    Bally used Gunmetal gray, or dark gray on a vast amount of games, even on their earlier EM games in the 70’s (ie., Vampire, Cosmos, Skyrocket, etc.)

    The idea to put on 'black' legs came from designer Jerry K Kelley. I had some conversation with him in 2000 and he told me that he loved to use BLACK.
    He designed the whole new 1967 Bally-cabinet with the lift-up-frame and added a black front-door, a black back-door and of course the legs.
    The black back-door vanished already in late 1968, the black front-door was replaced in early 1972 but the legs remained.
    He designed COSMOS as an all-black-machine but the management refused, much to his anger.

    #104 9 months ago
    Quoted from Mardi-Gras-Man:

    These are the original Williams-legs, no doubt about it.

    Sooooooo.....what is the suggested angle of the playfield if these are the original legs? Anyone? Like I stated above, I can barely get 5.5 out of these legs.

    #105 9 months ago
    Quoted from MD_Pinball_Dude:

    Sooooooo.....what is the suggested angle of the playfield if these are the original legs? Anyone? Like I stated above, I can barely get 5.5 out of these legs.

    Sorry, I can't give you an answer regarding that. The point of suggesting an angle is very important these days, no doubt about it, but I can't remember anyone talking about it 40 years ago. Operators and manuals just used to say "to speed up play and to decrease scores, raise the rear leg-levelers'

    But you should also not forget that pinball was a slower game 40 years ago.

    #106 9 months ago

    I make a point to put the correct legs on, but there is one exception. My pinball magic should have stainless capcom legs, but the originals were badly warped from someone moving the game with them on. I use b/w legs for this reason because good luck finding stainless capcoms.

    #107 9 months ago
    Quoted from MD_Pinball_Dude:

    Sooooooo.....what is the suggested angle of the playfield if these are the original legs? Anyone? Like I stated above, I can barely get 5.5 out of these legs.

    Do you have 2” levelers on the front screwed all the way down to the supporting nut, and 3” levelers on the back?

    Not to get away from “purist” thinking, but on some games I will use 31” legs on the back and 27 or 28 1/2” legs on the front to speed them up. Did that on my haunted house.

    #108 9 months ago

    I just had a look at my old scrap-book regarding the Bally-WMS-machines and it reads like this-

    Blackwater - last game with "black" Bally-legs
    Truck Stop - first game with half-ribbed chrome Williams-legs
    Transporter - 2nd game with half-ribbed chrome Williams-legs
    Atlantis - again with black Bally-legs, maybe because it fitted better to the rest of the machine or to get rid of black old-style NOS-legs
    Elvira - half-ribbed Williams-legs painted black. You can recognize them as Wiliams-legs when you look at the bottom-plate, as I wrote yesterday.
    Mousin' Around - full-ribbed chrome Williams legs
    Game Show - full-ribbed Williams-legs, painted black
    Pool Sharks - full-ribbed Williams-legs, painted black
    Radical - full-ribbed Williams-legs, painted black
    Dr Dude - Bunny - Harley - Gilligan - Party Zone - full-ribbed Williams-legs, painted black
    -and from Addams Family onwards with full-ribbed chrome Williams legs

    Quoted from Colsond3:

    Do you have 2” levelers on the front screwed all the way down to the supporting nut, and 3” levelers on the back?
    Not to get away from “purist” thinking, but on some games I will use 31” legs on the back and 27 or 28 1/2” legs on the front to speed them up. Did that on my haunted house.

    You're absolutely right, in fact Gottlieb fitted some, not all, of their 81-82-machines with the 'old' 31"legs on the back. I think Black Hole, Haunted House among some others but I can't tell more about this.

    And just for the record - a german company called FÖRSTER used half-ribbed legs already in the mid-60ies. Maybe some spanish and italian companies too.

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    #109 9 months ago
    Quoted from Colsond3:

    Do you have 2” levelers on the front screwed all the way down to the supporting nut, and 3” levelers on the back?
    Not to get away from “purist” thinking, but on some games I will use 31” legs on the back and 27 or 28 1/2” legs on the front to speed them up. Did that on my haunted house.

    THIS may be my problem. I will have to look closer at the levelers. Thanks!

    #110 9 months ago
    Quoted from MD_Pinball_Dude:

    THIS may be my problem. I will have to look closer at the levelers. Thanks!

    No problem. I often pick up games and people have 2” levelers on all four legs. Don’t know what kind of pitch you expect to get with those. I replace right away with brand new 2’s and 3’s.

    #111 9 months ago
    Quoted from Mardi-Gras-Man:

    He designed the whole new 1967 Bally-cabinet with the lift-up-frame and added a black front-door, a black back-door and of course the legs.
    The black back-door vanished already in late 1968, the black front-door was replaced in early 1972 but the legs remained.
    He designed COSMOS as an all-black-machine but the management refused, much to his anger.

    Interesting info. When I started powdercoating a ton of parts on all of my games, I found the gunmetal gray was the closest to the original Bally color. Some of them do appear to be straight black originally though, the legs and the coin door skins. This is what I use in the middle:

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    #112 9 months ago
    Quoted from Colsond3:

    No problem. I often pick up games and people have 2” levelers on all four legs. Don’t know what kind of pitch you expect to get with those. I replace right away with brand new 2’s and 3’s.

    I think the 3" ones are on the front and the 2" ones on the back. I did not look too closely at the legs when I got this thing set up the first time (doing this alone was painful to say the least) and I remember thinking something did not look right. I kept plugging along getting everything else going before worrying about the playfield pitch. I will take a look tonight at the screws.

    #113 9 months ago

    Here's what I've learned about WLMS and GTB woodrail legs...as posted on RGP a couple years back:

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/manifesto%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/_AL-1Ej9HNo/gl5tK24LDgAJ

    Hope it helps somebody someday!

    Sean

    #114 9 months ago
    Quoted from Colsond3:

    Interesting info. When I started powdercoating a ton of parts on all of my games, I found the gunmetal gray was the closest to the original Bally color. Some of them do appear to be straight black originally though, the legs and the coin door skins. This is what I use in the middle:[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    That looks exactly like my BK I had powder coated Charcoal sparkle gray many years ago.

    #115 9 months ago

    Any idea what a set of black non ribbed 34.5" legs go to? Pic is bottom if that helps identidy

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    #116 9 months ago

    The sharp-edged bottom indicates this is a Bally-leg.
    These are the rear legs from the short-lived Bally "Banana-cabinet" used for example with ESCAPE FROM THE LOST WORLD.

    #117 9 months ago
    Quoted from Mardi-Gras-Man:

    The sharp-edged bottom indicates this is a Bally-leg.
    These are the rear legs from the short-lived Bally "Banana-cabinet" used for example with ESCAPE FROM THE LOST WORLD.

    Would they go with a Dungeons and Dragons? Also has the same offset cabinet design. Are the front legs the standard 28.5?

    #118 9 months ago

    Of course. This goes for "Dungeons" and "Blackwater" too. And the front-legs are "standard" 28.5'ers.

    #119 9 months ago
    Quoted from Mardi-Gras-Man:

    Of course. This goes for "Dungeons" and "Blackwater" too. And the front-legs are "standard" 28.5'ers.

    Great thank you....I only have the one Bally game (D&D) in the lot of games I bought but I had a set of the grey Bally legs too, that I had initially allocated to D&D. Wonder if the grey ones are actually for the EATPM. I know one thing, I have way more black legs than games for them...I assume over the years it was common for operators to paint them.

    #120 9 months ago

    As mentioned before, ELVIRA also got "black" legs but those were actually ribbed Williams legs, painted (with a "rounded" bottom)
    Here in Germany it's the same - you'll find thousands of the Bally-legs, most operators kept the legs in store after shreddering the machines. Remember, in 77 and 78 Bally kinda outsold the other manufacturers and there are thousands of legs left.

    #121 9 months ago
    Quoted from Mardi-Gras-Man:

    As mentioned before, ELVIRA also got "black" legs but those were actually ribbed Williams legs, painted (with a "rounded" bottom)
    Here in Germany it's the same - you'll find thousands of the Bally-legs, most operators kept the legs in store after shreddering the machines. Remember, in 77 and 78 Bally kinda outsold the other manufacturers and there are thousands of legs left.

    Is there a pictorial that shows what you or someone described earlier about the shape of the bottom of the leg being an identifier. Might be helpful. I've sorted out the ribbed wms vs half ribbed wms. Now the 34.5 oddball from your help.

    There are still a few that are ribless but have what I would call a center spine rib or rounded bulge...and some that are completely flat with no spine bulge at all. All are 28.5, and are black.

    #122 9 months ago

    Regarding the issue "black or dark-grey"

    Here's another story that JKK told me - when he was with Bally he took care as well as he could that a BLACK was used for the different parts. When Bally was transformed from a Company into a Corporation in 1969 the new management was determined to save costs whereever they could.
    This meant for example that the cabinet-bottom became a cheaper one, and that cheaper colors were used.

    When the games were manufactured and boxed the color of the front-door and legs matched exactly. If you look at the machines until summer 69 they have an almost BLACK front-door and so were the legs. Machines from summer 69 on, like Bally Hoo for example, had a much more grey front-door and so were the legs also. In 1970 games like BIG VALLEY or SEA SAW had almost light-grey front-doors and legs.
    Another indicator are the leg-levelers - the games before 1970, this means the almost black ones, were fitted with very short leg-levelers, whereas the newer ones, from 1970 on (the grey ones) used the 'medium' leg-leveler.

    And another fact - if you look at the BALLY HOO -flyer you will see it has chrome-legs, to celebrate the return of a great name maybe. But I guess this was a one-off just for this picture, because I never saw a Bally Hoo with chromed legs, and they were quite common over here. One time I bought a very early Bally Hoo serial #1019 from the operator who purchased it, and he was sure it still had its original dark-painted legs fitted.

    #123 9 months ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    Is there a pictorial that shows what you or someone described earlier about the shape of the bottom of the leg being an identifier. Might be helpful. I've sorted out the ribbed wms vs half ribbed wms. Now the 34.5 oddball from your help.
    There are still a few that are ribless but have what I would call a center spine rib or rounded bulge...and some that are completely flat with no spine bulge at all. All are 28.5, and are black.

    Just post pictures, I will idenficate them foy you, it's a pleasure.

    #124 9 months ago

    The first one is actually shorter...27", so a gottlieb?

    The second one I'm guessing wms just painted hammertone?

    The third and fourth ones, Bally, but the third one has a distinct hump in the spine and the fourth one is matte black and has no hump, just a smooth corner.

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    #125 9 months ago

    Yes, the left one is a Gottlieb, with the typical slightly rounded bottom-angle.
    2nd is a full-ribbed Williams.
    3 and 4 are both Bally's. Bally must have had different suppliers in the hey-day, I know that there were different kinds of humps as there were lighter and darker shades of grey. It doesn't necessarily depend on the year. You could see big sellers like EIGHT BALL with very dark or light legs and with or without humps.
    Your medium leg-leveler on leg 3 doesn't seem to be the original one because it looks like new and the leg does not. Bally used these on their EM machines, and from early on the SS-models used the then-brandnew 'long' leg-leveler.

    #126 9 months ago

    Thanks! Funny, only 1 Bally in the games I bought and I have at least 4 sets of Bally legs.

    #127 9 months ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    Would they go with a Dungeons and Dragons? Also has the same offset cabinet design. Are the front legs the standard 28.5?

    With my D&D it had 28.5 all the way around, I had to use 31” on the back. Couldn’t find 34.5” at all back then.

    No idea why Bally used those weird slanted cabinets on a few of their games. It even makes it awkward to break down and transport them.

    #128 9 months ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    Thanks! Funny, only 1 Bally in the games I bought and I have at least 4 sets of Bally legs.

    I owned about 250 machines since 1976 and kept record of each and anything - less than 60 had their original legs left when I purchased them. And of course the 28.5 (73cm) Bally-legs could be found over and over.

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