I am genuinely shocked at the poll results here. 50% don't get the flu shot? I hope that doesn't mean 50% of pinsiders are anti-vax, but seems like a lot are by the comments.

The flu shot is not just about protecting yourself - it protects other people in our lives too. Herd immunity is important - the vaccinated protect other vulnerable people that cannot benefit from a vaccine for whatever reason - they are immunosuppressed and cannot take a shot (chemo, AIDS, too young) or have some other underlying medical condition, permanent or temporary, that prevents them from getting a vaccine.

Here is a comic that explains things pretty well, but google 'measles outbreak' if you want to see real world results of herd immunity problems caused by anti-vaccine foolishness:

https://www.vaccineswork.org/great-cartoon-by-maki-naro-explains-how-vaccines/

Flu shot is a dead virus and dead virus parts - you can't get sick from it. Flu shots take 1-2 weeks to work. Flu is already circulating right now. You were already sick when you received your shot, but had no symptoms.

If I had flu and blew a hot, gooey, double snot rocket right into your face this morning while you were yawning, you would not get sick this afternoon. The flu takes longer to incubate than that.

Everyone could stand to read this comic. It can help you understand why people can be super resistant to information that is new to them, but is factually correct, provable, obvious, etc and any attempt at changing their mind just causes them to double down.

It's long, but worth your time.

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

It should be shown at Thanksgiving to all attendees each year. There is a 'clean' version (no cuss words) available if you need to send it to someone that would be offended by the spicy language.

And prior to any conversations during dinner, everyone should review:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions

If this were a real problem, we would all be dead by now. The danger triangle is anatomically real, but the risk of death from popping nose pimples ( I can remember being warned by my mom in the 70's) or plucking a hair is super remote. Dr. Oz spends too much time on stuff like this.

Nose plucking death stories would make great click bait - like flesh eating bacteria and that amoeba that lives in stagnant pond/creek water that eats your brain - but I don't ever recall seeing a bonafide nose hair plucking or pimple popping death article.

BTW - I LOVE the direction of this thread.

I am going to stop vaccinating my dogs and cats now. Thank you for revealing the cold hard truth about the danger of vaccines.

Also - I am no longer afraid to face Lockjaw on my own terms. Bring it on Tetanus! I'm gonna whup your ass the old fashion way!!

I'm surprised the military hasn't caught on to the vaccine scam yet. Imagine all the money they would save just letting measles run through a battalion?

Plus it would obviously toughen everyone up. Our military has gone SOFT with these damn vaccines for long enough!

Also, I think Rabies is made up. Raccoons don't get vaccinated, but there are plenty of healthy raccoons out there. Boom - Rabies you are busted!!

Of course we are, it would be idiotic not vaccinate that many people in close quarters. There is no opting out on any grounds - religious, anti-science, or whatever.

Sorry, we can't fight this month. Our dumbasses all got a preventable disease. Our bad.

There may be a listed 'process' for an exemption other than medical (immunosuppressed, etc), but in boot camp, you just line up, shut up, and get your shots.

Here is the military info if you want it - you can think you can just 'opt out' if you want, but if you read closely, you will see that it is not really optional or solely up to the service member:

What are the different types of military exemptions?
Medical
Temporary Exemptions may be granted for up to 365 days based on:
Temporary contraindications to vaccines (e.g., pregnancy, acute illness, treatments causing immune suppression)
Pending completion of an ongoing medical evaluation
Medical Supply exemption: lack of vaccine supply
Permanent Exemptions may be granted indefinitely based on one of the following**:
HIV infection, prolonged or permanent immune suppression
Determination by a medical provider that further vaccination will seriously endanger patient's health
Medical, Reactive exemption: Previously severe reaction after specific vaccine (e.g., anaphylaxis)
Medical, Immune exemption: Evidence of existing immunity (e.g., by serologic antibody test, documentation of previous infection or natural infection presumed)
**Indefinite or permanent exemptions may be reversed if an alternate form of prophylaxis is not available, if a medical condition or vaccination guideline changes, or if a provider experienced in vaccine adverse-event management determines that the risk of acquiring the disease is greater than the risk of vaccine exposure.

Administrative
Separation or retirement within 180 days provided the following conditions are met:
Service member is not assigned, deployed or scheduled to perform duties in an area where specific immunization is indicated
The commander has not directed immunization because of overriding mission requirements
Separation of civilian employees and contractor personnel within 30 days
Religious:
Granted according to Service-specific policies
Command decision made with medical and chaplain consultation

Not having a vaccine and not getting sick - if you really are not/never were vaccinated against measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) for example - you are just relying on those who have been vaccinated (on herd immunity) to stay healthy. You are benefiting from the vaccine even though you are not participating.

Vaccines are not just for the individual receiving them. There are people that legitimately cannot get a vaccine and they stay protected through herd immunity to an extent. But it's a numbers game. As the % of the vaccinated population goes down, the effectiveness of Herd Immunity goes down as well. Then the unvaccinated start to get sick, especially in populations of people where the vaccine rate is low.

It's a 'can you', but 'will you' scenario. You are not going to get a "I've done my own science" waiver in the military. Of course there are considerations for legit medical reasons.

That would do it. While you are at it, tell them you like weekends off too.

Pretty sure Madtown is trolling and just having a little fun. Nicely done madtown.

A vaccinated anti-vaxxer? There are lots of those around, in some cases no doubt because they were vaccinated.

The truly unvaccinated do benefit from the vaccinated herd immunity. Didn't really mean to say they all actively rely on it, just that they all benefit from it.

There are people who would like to get the vaccines, but cannot because of legit medical reasons. Those people actually rely on the actions of the rest of us (the herd) for their protection.

An adult can be as stupid as they wanna be here in the good ol USA. Not likely to change. Freedom! Merica!

When the same adult makes the choice to withhold medical treatment from their minor child is when I have a problem. Especially when the anti-vaxxers also think it is OK to send their kid to same school as other kids. At the very least, I think it is fine to prevent their child from accessing public services if they will not adhere to a vaccination regimen.

Plenty of news stories out there where 14 yo kids finally figure out how whack their parents are and seek out vaccinations on their own.

This escalated quickly. Not sure where rape houses are, but you should report them. Here is an article where states are addressing the parents right to lunacy while allowing the children to elect for actual healthcare: https://www.governing.com/topics/health-human-services/sl-teens-can-choose-to-get-vaccines.html

Parents cannot, in fact, do anything they want to their children. Children have rights that sometimes surpass their family's beliefs and there are laws that ensure those rights can be asserted. States allowing children to elect to be vaccinated are an example of those laws. Plenty of other examples.

FTR - I am not trying to persuade Madtown, Sad Sack or anyone else to switch sides or get a vaccination or whatever. Since the advent of social media platforms a lot of fringe views get a whole lot of what we used to call 'ink'. They are entitled to their personal opinions.

But all that ink can cause some people to think that both sides of an argument are worth considering - anti-vaxxer, pizza-gate, flat earth, windmill cancer, moon landing hoax, etc. Whenever I see foolishness I feel obligated to speak up a bit.

I never agreed to this. "Rather not" is a pretty low bar. Hell, I would 'rather not' like to do a lot of things, but I do them.

Forcibly against someone's will or against a parent/guardian's will? Almost certainly not for an adult capable of making their own decision for themself, but possibly, if it involves a minor child.

How can one become a sigma bear?

Dammit.

We had a B/W TV, I thought he wore grey.

I wonder why insurance companies, Medicare, and and other health plans buy all that flu shot and give it to their members for free? Do they want to make their members sick and Big Pharma rich? How is that in their interest? Why did their number crunchers tell them to do it? I can't figure this out!!

Dumbass NFL teams damaging their players by offering and sometimes mandating flu shots. What a waste of money!

https://nationalfootballpost.com/monday-morning-md-8798/

Heard immunity? Of course I've heard of immunity!

There is a way to vaccinate yourself against this thread, if one were so inclined....

I get vaccinated because I believe in the science and because I have family members that are young children and some with respiratory problems and if they get the flu it is dangerous for them.

If anyone wants some real info on subject, the CDC has improved their website and has a great FAQ about flu now.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/index.html?s_cid=PN-NCIRD-Flu-OY4FightFlu-AW-Search-4-Recommend&gclid=CjwKCAiAis3vBRBdEiwAHXB29PCwxFli83MOiabuoJ5Fw7wsNjxVVQUj3WqIiGSg1BVsDQWqBKhNlxoCWfIQAvD_BwE

My bad, what in the HELL was I thinking? Here is a better site then:

https://www.infowars.com/?s=vaccine

That probably balances out, nicely done o-din.

Bad information summary. The article says don't take the nasal vaccine if you are a kid, bc it contains live forms of flu virus. They recommend the shot bc there are no live virus in the shot.

If your immune system is bad ass, a snort of live virus is all it needs to stay in fighting shape.

No vaccines means your immune system is flabby, lazy, and may not get off the couch when the home invaders knock down your door.

Unless you can make your case using my anecdotal made up information, without using "numbers" and "science", I cannot respect your opinion.

Describes most of this thread!

If Hannity and Maddow got into a flu vaccine duel - syringe darts at 10 paces - would puppies still make me sick?

Since this has turned into a public service/general medical forum, here is a reminder that squirrel brains aren't just high in cholesterol. Even Cousin Eddie doesn't eat them anymore:

https://www.livescience.com/63831-squirrel-brains-rare-disorder-creutzfeldt-jakob-disease.html

Can we leave the friggin' cheeseburgers out of this discussion?

Randy (resized).jpg

This thread reminds me of the Dead Parrot skit. We are finally down to the "the flu is killing people" vs "that's not flu, it's something made up by the government" part.

Guys - I think SadSack and o-din are starting to see the light, just a few more facts and they will get vaccinated! Go for it!

Cant believe you fell for the Yugo but not the flu shot!

Anyone paying attention knows the government has been using chemtrails to insert flu shot into the generically modified corn crop. Between that and the fluoride we are pretty much screwed guys.

It's widely known that Monsanto is a CIA cover, open your eyes bro.

I can tell that you are probably one of those 'round earth' 'moon lander' types that believe everything the New Templars tell you. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!

Ever notice the pro vaxxers seem to think alike? Illuminati mind control serum!!!! Stay away!

I was forcibly given a flu shot. True story.

I mean, was only 3, but still.

"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart."

Ulysses Everett McGill