Quoted from Rager170:From what I read, the shingles does none of those things.
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3 months later
Quoted from o-din:I'm just going to say what I think.
Unlike MMR, there are too many strains of the flu and that kind of virus is always mutating, so they will never be able to eradicate it.
Gat a shot if you like, or don't if you don't. Plain and simple. I don't see the point in debating that. Some people are healthier than others and take care of themselves so they have strong immune systems. For those that don't, perhaps science can save them.
You’re correct that the flu mutates and there are too many strains to eradicate it with vaccination but the point of the flu shot is not to eradicate the flu.
You are also correct that younger and healthier people usually can weather the flu without serious consequences. The issue is when that younger person gives the flu to granny who dies from it.
Quoted from o-din:Apparently my mom, a 97 year old granny, never faced that. She doesn't take flu shots anymore either after one put her in the hospital 10 years ago. Or perhaps it was just a coincidence she got deathly ill shortly after the shot.
CDC- "Yes, we are accomplished and educated, and have made sure what we recommend is safe and the FDA has also approved it. But in regards to that Xaralto that caused your grandmother's death, and the hernia mesh that has caused you major problems, be sure to direct your lawsuits at the companies that made them, not us or the FDA"
It's not possible to get the flu from the flu shot. It's an inactivated virus.
Just because your particular mom never got the flu at an advanced age doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That's anecdotal evidence and not worth anything in population statistics.
Quoted from o-din:Perhaps it was a reaction to something else in the shot, who knows. And we don't care about population statistics. Only what works for us. At least we have enough intelligence to make our own decisions. I'm sure there will be someone that says we are stupid for doing that.
That really makes no sense. Population statistics are what you should care about if you ask what your risk is for a certain disease. I can show you a man who smoked his whole life and never got lung cancer. Does that mean smoking doesn't cause lung cancer? You can't make conclusions based on small sample sizes.
Quoted from madtown:If you look at population statistics (in the U.S.A. for example) then the incidence is extremely low of cathching let alone getting really sick from any of these diseases.
The incidence of flu in the US is low? Sources please.
Quoted from madtown:We have lower risk because of heard immunity...i'm just riding the heard. Vaccines do in fact have risk, i lower my risk by not getting them.
So your position is that vaccines are effective, in fact so effective that you can afford to not get one and rely on herd immunity. Hope you don’t travel much or come in contact with someone who has.
Quoted from pinstyle:I have a serious question maybe someone here can answer. Since everything is always evolving and adapting, how do you know the viruses for which you are vaccinated from haven't evolved rendering the vaccine useless?
Edit: I am talking about vaccines in general, not just the flu vaccine.
Simple answer is that different viruses mutate at different rates. Influenza mutates very rapidly so it's really not possible to eradicate it with vaccination. Something like smallpox mutuates much much more slowly so if you vaccinate the population you can eradicate the disease from that area of the earth. There has not been a case of smallpox in the US since 1980.
Quoted from o-din:No that was a good information summary. I may not have presented it that way though.
On one point they recommended someone with Crohns get a flu shot and if he did he got the flu anyway.
The other piece of information which I highlighted is that some forms of the vaccine contain live virus, which I believe some here has said it does not.
If the article itself is in error, I did not write it.
If you're referring to me what I said was the flu shot contains an inactivated virus. The shot is not the same as the flu mist which is the nasal spray one which contains an attenuated virus. A lot of docs won't give the nasal one anymore because it isn't as effective anyway.
What does it matter if it contains "live virus" anyway?
Quoted from o-din:Maybe just as effective as that live virus those mosquitos inject.
An attenuated virus is by definition weakened and unable to cause serious illness. I suspect you know this.
Quoted from JimB:Always got the flu prior to getting shots. Including one that lasted 4 miserable weeks. Never got the flu again after getting shots each year.
Based on this data the flu shot is clearly 100% effective right? 
Quoted from pinstyle:I appreciate your response. I would have guessed the flu is a fast evolving virus. Though in the case of other viruses, It would seem to me that you wouldn't know how the virus developed further until people started showing up dead (or infected etc.) and you took that new virus and studied it. Though not being in medicine I could be way off base.
Well with the case of something like smallpox basically the virus dies out of an area because it has no hosts that it can infect so it really doesn't matter over time. For smallpox to reoccur it would almost have to be a completely new virus that evolved. That's always possible I suppose.
Quoted from RonSS:So, the CDC urges people to get the shot, and THEN cover their noses and mouths, and wash hands regularly.
It's not magic. It's a vaccine.
Quoted from RonSS:No, washing hands and not touching your face should be routine with or without the shot. That's all. I'm not suggesting anything else here.
Oh I see. I agree.
2 weeks later
Quoted from manadams:The CDC states that MOST single dose vaccines do not contain it not ALL. From what I have read there are still multi-dose vials being used in some instances. Formaldehyde and the 41% success rate is still a concern. It's not lies or nonsense, I would get the shot if I was elderly or had a weak immune system.
The human body produces over an ounce of formaldehyde daily as part of regular metabolism. In contrast the flu shot contains trace amounts of formaldehyde which is used in the process of virus inactivation. This formaldehyde stuff is just scare tactics.
1 week later
Quoted from o-din:Yes. And my statement was "People" not "People in the US"
So wait, you won't take US flu statistics because you say the US population is not representative of you individually but you take a worldwide automobile accident statistic because you think it helps your point? Makes no sense.
Quoted from o-din:All I said is more people will die in car accidents than from the flu. I didn't use some secret code.[quoted image]
Right but your statement is only true if you use world wide statistics. Do you drive worldwide on a regular basis? I doubt it. If you use US statistics your statement is patently false.
The US statistics would be much more applicable to your situation but you deny US flu statistics because you say the average US citizen doesn’t meet your level of fitness. I guess you somehow equate yourself to the average worldwide citizen more??
You just aren’t making a logical point here.
Quoted from o-din:Right. There are only people in the US and nowhere else in the world.
You think the worldwide population is a better comparator group for you than the US population? Ok...
Quoted from o-din:Apparently more people are likely to die from the flu in the US where more are vaccinated than in car accidents, and more people die in car accidents than the flu in third world countries where they are not as heavily vaccinated.
There, is that what you wanted to hear?
Can you think of a reason why more people would die in car accidents worldwide vs the US?
You’re making logical mistakes all over the place. You can’t equate car accident death rates in a 3rd world country with no seatbelt laws and different driving styles/laws with a developed country like the US. You also can’t compare flu rates between the two and attribute it to vaccination. There are again confounding factors like people living in big cities vs small villages, air travel, etc.
I’m just pointing out that you are cherry picking statistics based on whatever supports your point of view. It’s not logically consistent to say you won’t accept statistics from the country you live in (which represents the best comparator group) but then use a worldwide statistic which is a worse comparator group.
If we’re going to just pick numbers out of the air, I choose Sierra Leone. 10,315 flu deaths in 2017, only 1,842 car accident deaths. So you are 5.6 times more likely to die from the flu vs a car accident right? What do I win?
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