(Topic ID: 77055)

Do not dare to enter the BLACK HOLE ! (70-hour shop job)

By mof

10 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 211 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by mof
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

201410-BH-just-PF.jpg
201410-BH-67-hours.jpg
201410-BH-LDB-sexy2.jpg
201410-BH-LDB-sexy1.jpg
201410-BH-polished-ball-guides7.jpg
201410-BH-polished-ball-guides5.jpg
201410-BH-polished-ball-guides6.jpg
201410-BH-polished-ball-guides3.jpg
201410-BH-polished-ball-guides4.jpg
201410-BH-polished-ball-guides2.jpg
201410-BH-polished-ball-guides1.jpg
201410-BH-handle-bling3.jpg
201410-BH-handle-bling4.jpg
201410-BH-before-after.jpg
201410-BH-handle-bling2.jpg
201410-BH-handle-bling1.jpg
There are 211 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 5.
#101 10 years ago

Put 4 good hours into two flipper rebuilds. Got them disassembled and cleaned. Learned I need to grab a 1/8" pin punch from a hardware store tomorrow to continue further.
-mof

Here's my ghetto playfield prop arm courtesy of an old broom (good thick wood!)
Seems stable enough...
201402-BH-prop2.jpg201402-BH-prop2.jpg201402-BH-prop.jpg201402-BH-prop.jpg

Here's the kit from PBR:
201402-BH-flipper-rebuild-kit-L-R.jpg201402-BH-flipper-rebuild-kit-L-R.jpg201402-BH-flipper-rebuild1.jpg201402-BH-flipper-rebuild1.jpg

Here's the flipper arm that needs a 1/8" pin punch to complete work on
201402-BH-flipper-arm-pin.jpg201402-BH-flipper-arm-pin.jpg

Old and new coil stop -- big difference!
201402-BH-flipper-coil-stop-difference.jpg201402-BH-flipper-coil-stop-difference.jpg

One gross bushing -- wtf fluid is that?
201402-BH-gross-bushing.jpg201402-BH-gross-bushing.jpg

All new parts back from the Ultrasonic, yeah !
201402-BH-flipper-ultrasonic.jpg201402-BH-flipper-ultrasonic.jpg

#102 10 years ago

I just noticed you are using a wooden prop. My Black Hole doesn't have a prop either and I thought it was missing but maybe black hole didn't have a prop from the factory?

#103 10 years ago

Black Hole has no prop like other System 80 games do because it would be in the way if you need to remove the lower playfield. It would also hit the lower playfield, there's just not enough room.

Steve

#104 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Here's my ghetto playfield prop arm courtesy of an old broom (good thick wood!)
Seems stable enough...

well, it beats the PENCIL that kid that bought SMB was using!

21 seconds in:

#105 10 years ago

Every BH owner has a piece of wood

#106 10 years ago

But not all of them use it as a prop stick.

Steve

Quoted from Gerry:

Every BH owner has a piece of wood

#107 10 years ago
Quoted from blownfuse:

But not all of them use it as a prop stick.
Steve

LOL

#108 10 years ago

Today, back in the laboratory of Dr. Gottlieb, many mods were made to the CPU and Driver Boards...
Here are the beautiful results:
Big Big thanks to blownfuse...
-mof

201402-BH-driver-board-with-mods2.jpg201402-BH-driver-board-with-mods2.jpg201402-BH-driver-board-with-mods.jpg201402-BH-driver-board-with-mods.jpg

#109 10 years ago

Steve F'in rules !

#110 10 years ago

These puppies get installed in the morning!
Woof !
-mof

Even the magnifying glass is happy!
201402-BH-new-flipper-assemblies-(2-of-6).jpg201402-BH-new-flipper-assemblies-(2-of-6).jpg

#112 10 years ago

Captain's Log, Stardate 2014-Feb-8.
4 weeks into project: "Black Hole"
Time estimate: 70 hours.
Elapsed: 44.5 hours.
Remaining: 25.5 hours.
Completion Date (Goal): Feb 22.

It will be tough to hit the goal since I have plans the weekend of 2/15...

I'll *have* to power through more flipper upgrades Sunday/Monday night to have a chance at coming close, but I only have 4-6 more hours of free time before 2/22... =( It was an ambitious goal...

Loving this game. I was in Dr. Gottlieb's arcade today, where I got to play a few cousins of Black Hole: Spirit and Mars God of War. I like each of them for different reasons, but the ability to smack the ball HARD, and watch the pops do their evil magic on the ball is unparalleled by Black Hole. I can't wait to have this thing completely hard-knocking and fine-tuned. It's a real treat. I call it a "shell game" pinball design. You really have trouble tracking the ball, and wondering where the F*** it is. I can't say that about too many pins.

There's just so much S P A C E in this pin.

-mof

#113 10 years ago

great work so far. keep up the good work and thanks for posting everything.

#114 10 years ago
Quoted from Gerry:

Steve F'in rules !

The top reason I'd like to attend PAGG someday is to play that storied system 80 lineup.

#115 10 years ago

You and me both

#116 10 years ago

Wouldn't be sys80 without a curveball thrown at me. Game not booting into attract mode. Not holding steady 5vdc on the power supply board. Dr. Gottlieb says it likely needs a new 10000uf cap... Also, I've been informed it's good to replace the BRs for good measure as well. (Parts will soon all be on order with Ed.)

I need to place my order for the BRs with GPE -- does anyone know the specs on the four BRs down by the transformer?

Are they 35a 200v - 4 tab ?

-mof

#117 10 years ago

Those will work, but I would order the 35A 400V bridges Ed sells as they're the same price and a bit more robust. You'll want lug leads, not wire leads. That said, I wouldn't replace the bridge unless it tests bad.

How are you determining the filter cap is at fault? I would start by checking voltage at the positive terminal of the 12V bridge then following the 12V/5V chain through the game. Have you replaced the 6800uf cap at the bottom of the cabinet?

1 week later
#118 10 years ago

Cap in hand, perhaps say some system80 prayers for me tonight...

Will have results in 3 hours. Hoping for steady 5vdc... (I already replaced the BR to the power supply, and that didn't do it.)
-mof

201402_BH-cap-going-in.jpg201402_BH-cap-going-in.jpg

#119 10 years ago

I wish I was motivated to do half of these things to my Black Hole. Or have any motivation at all really.

Can't wait to see the end result, though!

#120 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Will have results in 3 hours. Hoping for steady 5vdc... (I already replaced the BR to the power supply, and that didn't do it.)

BR are either good or bad, never helps to install new just to increase or better the supply. It does not happen. Large filter cap maybe help with steady. But not sure I understand what your problem is? 12AC from small transformer on left gets rectified via BR and sent to your power supply J1 pins 1 and 2 you should be reading 12Vdc. IC1 is the ua723 is the voltage regulator. Did you do work on the power supply? There are a couple of things to do there if you did not. New 500 ohm trim pot? R10 from 30 ohm to 680 ohm.

I would check all power supply voltages at no load, nothing plugged in and if everything measures good, then apply the load and recheck the voltages.

crossing my fingers for ya.

#121 10 years ago
Quoted from Skrippy:

I wish I was motivated to do half of these things to my Black Hole. Or have any motivation at all really.
Can't wait to see the end result, though!

Yeah, mof is on a quest now. Once conquered he will be bored for years with nothing to fix.

I just de thunked my Black Hole. It is kind of weird. Silent start up now ane just not used to it yet.
That only took me 12years to finally get the spine to do.

#122 10 years ago

Never been so happy to be back in attract mode!!! My little buddy is clicking and clacking the outlane gate as prescribed.

BH is back in business!!! 5vdc measured on the CPU, steady as a rock.

But... She won't be played tonight. Oh no.

Now, I have to practice patience, and only work 1 hour each night this week to keep accord with the family. Proud that I can muster that patience now. Wasn't as easy one year ago. Aging is good for something!

Wed night: solder in newly rebuilt flippers, and re-align/re-position my first ever Gottlieb flipper install (can't frickin' wait)

Tonight is the morale booster, tomorrow night is the big payoff... Can't wait to see what these flippers can do.

Also, I'm proud that I was able to re-work the old bracket AND re-use the old bracket holes in the wood. I just had to bend the bracket a little, then find a long AND perfectly threaded machine screw that would self-thread tightly through the second hole. Thank god for the "$hit jar" -- low and behold, within a few seconds of moving "random loose crap found in the last 12 machines", it had the perfect one sitting in there. As I tightened the screw, it made a good grasp of the new cap.

"Screwfest Destiny"... (I dare you to google it, those two words have never been uttered together before.)

-mof

Old cap
201402-BH-old-narrow-cap.jpg201402-BH-old-narrow-cap.jpg

Old bracket getting prepped for the new cap
201402-BH-re-work-bracket.jpg201402-BH-re-work-bracket.jpg

New cap installed, using old holes with bigger radius. Hell yes!
201402-BH-old-bracket-new-cap.jpg201402-BH-old-bracket-new-cap.jpg

Checking for 5vdc on power supply board first with nothing attached
201402-BH-5vdc-power-supply.jpg201402-BH-5vdc-power-supply.jpg

Checking for 5vdc on CPU board, looks good !
201402-BH-CPU-5vdc.jpg201402-BH-CPU-5vdc.jpg

There she is !!!
201402-BH-5vdc-power-supply2.jpg201402-BH-5vdc-power-supply2.jpg

#123 10 years ago

Good for you, very cool.. have fun

#124 10 years ago

Cool.

Yeah that is great picture of a obvious bad cap. It kind of looks like physical damage and electrical rupture at the same time.

What is next on the list? All issues fixed?

#125 10 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

Cool.
Yeah that is great picture of a obvious bad cap. It kind of looks like physical damage and electrical rupture at the same time.
What is next on the list? All issues fixed?

Only had the one short-term issue preventing game play.
First post has the list...
Next up is re-install cleaned up flippers and align them perfectly
Then quickly swap out one solenoid with broken plastic that supports the lugs

Then play...

Quoted from Gerry:

Good for you, very cool.. have fun

Thanks!
-mof

#126 10 years ago

Alright! It's been a long road and you're getting to your destination. I knew that cap would do the trick but I had to sit here on my hands and wait for your post. Too bad it took you so long to replace it.

Steve

#127 10 years ago

Got the 2 main flippers re-wired in. Plays with about the same punch as before, but certainly smoother. Of course the leaves were not adjusted perfectly out of the box, so left flipper "appeared" dead at first, and it was simply that the contacts were not tight enough.

When we were diagnosing the fluctuating 5vdc that is now fixed, we unplugged the lower PF for the first time.
Now the lower PF is not sensing both sets of drops or the trough switch to allow the pall to pass. I tried reconnecting the three connectors twice. No change. The flippers, GI, and pops work downstairs. I'm sure it's something minor... Will take another look Thursday night.

Ship is almost sailing again... So close.
-mof

#128 10 years ago

Tonight I put in 3 good hours:

1. Replaced the solenoid for the lower playfield, that supports switch #53, which senses when the ball has drained, and needs to be allowed to pass to the tube.
2. Replaced the solenoid with the broken lugs on the upper playfield pop.
3. Cleaned the heck out of switch 53.
4. Rotated the solenoid that fires the ball to the upper PF, so that the lugs no longer catch on stuff when the lower PF is slid back into place.

fun stuff. So close to having a strong player machine.
-mof

Solenoid with bad lugs for the left-drain pop
201402-BH-bad-lugs.jpg201402-BH-bad-lugs.jpg

Replaced.
201402-BH-replace-sbad-lug-solenoid.jpg201402-BH-replace-sbad-lug-solenoid.jpg

Blue solenoid has loose plunger.
201402-BH-loosey-goosey.jpg201402-BH-loosey-goosey.jpg

Replaced it, and rotated the red one.
201402-BH-replaced-solenoid-rotated-other.jpg201402-BH-replaced-solenoid-rotated-other.jpg

Nice place to rest the "club".
201402-BH-nice-pole.jpg201402-BH-nice-pole.jpg

#129 10 years ago

Current Speed bump: ball gate solenoid not firing. (solved!)

1) test 18 results with 53. Switch is good.
2) test 16 results with the ball gate solenoid not firing, and the ball return solenoid does fire. However... after 5-10 thrusts, F17 blows. (note: Dr. Gottlieb had me replace the 6 1/2 SB with a 2 1/2 SB. It's now blown twice since I've been troubleshooting.)
3) Green-Yellow-Yellow appears to me to control the solenoid. I buzzed it back to the backbox connector, and it's good.

-mof

#130 10 years ago

After talking with mof, we discovered the problem. Tech error, I did it when installing the ground mods to the driver board, ugh! Well at least it's working now. Have fun mof.

Steve

#132 10 years ago

ALL FIXED.
Game plays crazy-good. The real eye-opener in this process for me was replacing the Capacitor off the transformer. The game is punchy as hell all over. Now I am itching to learn to measure voltage and make sure all my machines are running to spec. I have some that are this punchy, and a few that are not.

Thanks to Dr. Gottlieb for the troubleshooting help!

I'll post my high score in the Black Hole club... hehe
-mof

#133 10 years ago

Nice job!

I found the trick to high scores on Black Hole is the four round targets upstairs. They light the four drop targets downstairs for 10x points. Get at least some of them and go downstairs. Once downstairs, your first priority is opening the gate; after that, bonus X, then wail on the drops.

When you drain downstairs, the tube feeds the right flipper. Try to shoot back downstairs immediately and the gate won't close.

Unlit drops downstairs are like 300 points each. Lit they're 3000. With bonus-X maxed that's 15000. But if you can spell BLACK and HOLE before doing this, that's 45k per target on a six-digit game.

Of course, my BH was never that clean. Maybe if I did half the work you did, I wouldn't have been able to do any of that stuff.

#134 10 years ago

I feel your pain, tsz4.

mof has done a wonderful thing here.

#135 10 years ago

I just put in another 15 games of play tonight, and got my A$$ handed to me over and over. Can't seem to crack 400K. Like all great games, the secrets to the game are being revealed slowly to me. My neighbors must think someone is getting tortured in the garage (me). I am happy to report that the game is playing really well.

If you can, make friends with someone in your area with a Black Hole, it is possibly the most punishing game I've ever played. I don't think there's any competition for the speed, randomness of ball travel, and the brutal punishment of having three pop bumpers playing against you. You really feel like you are in a fire-fight. It could have been themed as a high-noon gunslinger fight.

If you come home from work in a bad mood, do NOT play Black Hole. Do not make it the only game in your collection. It's that rough -- but with the pain comes great joy when you have a good ball.

-mof

#136 10 years ago

And the number of ball per game still 5??
Would like a report as to the number of times you where in multiball. My guess is you can count on one hand.

#137 10 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

And the number of ball per game still 5??
Would like a report as to the number of times you where in multiball. My guess is you can count on one hand.

In about 50 plays since I bought it. 2-3 times. And they didn't last long... sigh.
-mof

#138 10 years ago

Looks like mof fell into a Black Hole, I haven't heard from him in a while.

Steve

#139 10 years ago

Hey mof next time your at Steve's you need to install those ole mini flippers on his machine and move a couple of his posts a little. He cheats.

Steve, mof has already been hunting for a new title the addict.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/show-off-your-game-200-in-prizes-led-enhanced-games-pictures/page/3
did you post a pic yet? I'm all the way at the bottom of page.

#140 10 years ago

Nah, cheating is a "hollow victory", I earn my points. I have no plans to post pics of my LED boards in that contest.

Steve

#141 10 years ago

Well ya can't win it if your not in it. You'd get a bunch of thumbs up for sure!

#142 10 years ago

Movie coming soon. Pics will have to hold you over for now.
-mof

201402-BH-night-moves3.jpg201402-BH-night-moves3.jpg
201402-BH-night-moves2.jpg201402-BH-night-moves2.jpg
201402-BH-night-moves1.jpg201402-BH-night-moves1.jpg

#143 10 years ago
Quoted from ts4z:

Nice job!
I found the trick to high scores on Black Hole is the four round targets upstairs. They light the four drop targets downstairs for 10x points. Get at least some of them and go downstairs. Once downstairs, your first priority is opening the gate; after that, bonus X, then wail on the drops.
When you drain downstairs, the tube feeds the right flipper. Try to shoot back downstairs immediately and the gate won't close.
Unlit drops downstairs are like 300 points each. Lit they're 3000. With bonus-X maxed that's 15000. But if you can spell BLACK and HOLE before doing this, that's 45k per target on a six-digit game.
Of course, my BH was never that clean. Maybe if I did half the work you did, I wouldn't have been able to do any of that stuff.

That's exactly my strategy too. You have to read the manual though to know that the yellow drops are increased in value

In a 5 ball game the yellow drops are worth 1000 when lit so not as lucrative.

#144 10 years ago
Quoted from woz:

You have to read the manual though to know that the yellow drops are increased in value

Most Gottlieb games have some variation on this rule. On EM games, lit value is 10x unlit because it is easy to do with a relay. They carried this over to some things in solid-state, but not consistently. (Monte Carlo's bumpers are 10k when lit but 1k when not lit. But the drop targets can also be lit for extra points but it's not 10x.)

#145 10 years ago

After a short visit to Dr. Gottlieb's laboratory on Saturday, I learned a few essentials for having a good Black Hole experience as a player. He also offered advice on the broken post. He suggested taking a 1/16" drill bit, and drilling down the very center of the broken post. Then follow up with a 3/32" bit, and hopefully the drill will "catch" the post and actual drive it right through the bottom of the playfield.

I tried it and it did just that. The benefit is that I still have a wood hole perfectly threaded and ready for another post. I lost almost no wood material in the act other than driving it through the other side which was harmless. New post is in, and feels very stable. I threw a washer underneath it for added stability, also there was a little bit of blue playfield missing around the post, and this more appealing cosmetically.

Now that inner orbit shot is much harder to make, which simply means making it, is much more rewarding.

Did the pinball gods approve of my work tonight?
-mof
201403-BH-post-in.jpg201403-BH-post-in.jpg

#146 10 years ago

Is... Answer... Yes?

Yes.

Got my first ever 6-digit score rollover on Black Hole. I think it's due time to install the 7-digit displays as the doctor suggested!
-mof

Got three multi-balls in 9 games, and one lasted for 2 minutes.

I would dare to say, if you've never played a Black Hole multi-ball...
you've never played the most challenging multi-ball of all time.

1.2mil !

201403-BH-1pt2mil.jpg201403-BH-1pt2mil.jpg

#147 10 years ago

Rats, I was hoping you'd document a "how to" procedure on removing a snapped off mini post since I forgot to take pics when I did it. Trying to back the snapped off screw out usually ends badly with the playfield being damaged. Glad my method worked for you, it's never failed to work for me, good job.

Yep, time to start collecting up everything you need to convert your game to 7 digit.

Steve

Quoted from mof:

After a short visit to Dr. Gottlieb's laboratory on Saturday, I learned a few essentials for having a good Black Hole experience as a player. He also offered advice on the broken post. He suggested taking a 1/16" drill bit, and drilling down the very center of the broken post. Then follow up with a 3/32" bit, and hopefully the drill will "catch" the post and actual drive it right through the bottom of the playfield.
I tried it and it did just that. The benefit is that I still have a wood hole perfectly threaded and ready for another post. I lost almost no wood material in the act other than driving it through the other side which was harmless. New post is in, and feels very stable. I threw a washer underneath it for added stability, also there was a little bit of blue playfield missing around the post, and this more appealing cosmetically.
Now that inner orbit shot is much harder to make, which simply means making it, is much more rewarding.
Did the pinball gods approve of my work tonight?
-mof

201403-BH-post-in.jpg 161 KB

#148 10 years ago

incredible work, mof. so glad you're loving the game!

#149 10 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

Looking good so far!

Quoted from btw75:

I like to see the approach laid out.

Quoted from biggestboss:

Wow u found a nice one. This thing will be absolutely gorgeous after 60 hrs.

Quoted from pinball77:

Looks really good. Good luck.

Quoted from papazit1963:

Thats one great looking BH! Enjoy the process and do all the required mods. Gonna look even better when you're done! Congrats!

Quoted from pezpunk:

incredible work, mof.

Quoted from Skrippy:

mof has done a wonderful thing here.

Quoted from 2manypins:

great work so far. keep up the good work and thanks for posting everything.

Thanks for the kind support!

Quoted from blownfuse:

Alright! It's been a long road and you're getting to your destination.

Get your popcorn and Shasta ready...

The movie has been recorded... 10 mins of 5-ball fun with two back to back multi-balls. 2nd best score ever...

-mof

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 83.00
Electronics
PinballReplacementParts
 
From: $ 5.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 1,159.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
From: $ 3.00
Cabinet - Other
Space Coast Pinball
 
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu
There are 211 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 5.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/do-not-dare-to-enter-the-black-hole-just-another-casual-50-hour-shop-job/page/3 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.