Yep, simple economics, supply and demand stuff. I definitely like the game and would probably be in it at 4750. At 6k I hesitate and I'm more inclined to put it on the back burner. Is it feasible/worthwhile for them to do it 4750 though? It may not be.

MM is one of the best-earning pins of all time. I assume it STILL kills at the coin drop, as does AFM.

I'll never buy the argument that pins have to be licensed, as many of the best selling-earning games of all time are original themes. However some - like Gary Stern apparently - will never be convinced otherwise.

I really do believe a good original theme could still kick ass. And it doesn't even have to be overly complicated with a bazillion ramps, four playfield levels and a fleshlight installed in the coin door either.

One thing everyone seems to have in common on here at least is beer. A beer themed game could do well. Sounds stupid, I know, but I bet it could be done well. Think Tapper. Ultimate man-cave machine and perfect for a bar on location.

MM and AFM came out at a different time….and by now, they have a reputation, even amongst casual pinfans. MM might as well be the "Pac-Man" of pinball. It's just known. Stern doing an original theme TODAY would not do the business Stern needs to do to survive. They need the brand recognition for collectors & operators (especially overseas) to bite early. Doing an original theme instead of AC/DC would be like Alvin G. doing "Al's Garage Band Goes on a World Tour". People will buy & play AC/DC because it's AC/DC…Al's Garage Band? Pass. Thankfully, many Sterns end up as cool themes AND cool games. They just need the cool theme up front to get eyeballs and dollars.

Fleshlight is a good option, but only for home use. Route games it could be a bit of an issue

Interessting article. There's a couple things that come to mind:
- Data East, Sega, Stern and Premier have demonstrated that a license is no guarantee for a good or great game. Bally / Williams had their share of less appreciated licensed themes as well. The same goes for unlicensed games. Fact is: some designers deliver a better game than others (and some didn't have a clue of what they were doing, both in licensed and original themes). Some manufacturers also delivered better quality games, or used better quality parts, but that's a different discussion (Gottlieb games apparently had the best parts, but that didn't help licensed games like Waterworld or Barb Wire, did it?).

- A license leads to instant (positive) recognition, or at least it should, but you can screw it up too. Pick the wrong license and it won't sell, and/or it won't get played on location. Or you can get a great license but build the game with mediocre parts, resulting in it being out of order all the time. Not helping. Or pick a license that could work, shove it down a designer's throat that doesn't want to do it and you end up with a so-so game. Or give a designer a license of his choice and free reign and you end up with your best selling game ever. So besides the license there are a lot of other factors involved that have influence on the outcome of a game. Basically, if a license is not executed right, or the game broken all the time, the disappointment will only be bigger for players, resulting in them walking away from the game and possibly pinball in general.

- Licenses do have a huge disadvantage: those not familiar with the movie / comic book / theme are likely to not understand the game and the characters in it. X-Men and Avengers come to mind. Most superhero pins actually, since I'm not into these. That's my personal taste, but it doesn't help pinball. E.g: a girlfriend and I were playing on location and had a Wheel of Fortune and Spiderman available. We played WoF, then SM and went back to WoF because we didn't like SM and the (to us) unfamiliar characters. WoF had a happier vibe and we had more fun playing it.

- another disadvantage of licensing: it changed the artwork appearance on pinball machines from eyecatching artistic masterpieces to copy/paste photoshop collages that hardly stand out. That didn't help pinball in general at all. The art wasn't simply that appealing compared to games from the 70s or 80s. Add on top of that the creative restrictions the artists have to deal with, dictated by these movie studios protecting their brands and actors, and you'll understand that doesn't help pinball in general either. So there is instant recognition, but it hardly stands out. A static illuminated backbox hardly stands out between most other coin-op devices, but that's a different topic.

- In the upcoming Pinball Magazine No. 3 Roger Sharpe makes some very interesting comments on licensing: while licensing has proven to be successful, you shouldn't get a license for the wrong reasons. Just because it will be a big movie hit, or because a video game sold so many units, or the show is a hit on TV, or the slot machine of this license is very polular, doesn't mean it's a good license for pinball. If you take such a license anyway, how big are the chances it will be a good game?

Roger also mentioned that licensing in pinball probably has become a self fulfilling prophecy. I think he may be right. Gary Stern believed for years they needed licenses to sell their games, to the point that they can't do without them anymore. Fact is that many of the licensed Data East and Sega designs were very mediocre games that didn't benefit pinball in general. Stern's first attempts at original games weren't exactly great games either, which didn't help them to build a proper reputation with operators (at the time their key market). After 3 mediocre original themes they probably needed the instant recognition a license brings in order to stay in the game. And apparently they still do, only now the market is different. Many operators quit on pinball and the chances of them getting back into itl are slim. The operators that are left today probably need the instant recognition a license brings as nobody cares about pinball anymore. The collectors? Who would have thought they would dominate the market? But many would never have bought certain games if they weren't tied in with a license. Would Metallica sell as well if branded as a generic Heavy Metal theme? The people that don't care for a license (they just want to buy a pinball machine) still have to choose between licenses as that's all what has been put out for years.

Funny enough Mustang comes along, the first pinball in ages to have a completely original character set and original modes, which have nothing to do with the Mustang brand. What happens? Both operators and collectors ignore the game. It's a great game, but the instant recognition is not what many have become used to, or the theme is preventing people from liking it. I wonder if Mustang would sell if rebranded as Fast Car or something similar, making it a completely non-licensed theme. Or would it sell better as Ferrari? or Corvette? or Car Race, or whatever.

Both Spooky and Skit B (and to an extend JJP as well) could probably use better marketing as mostly pinball insiders know about their games. Still the licensed Predator beats America's Most Haunted in sales. Is that because of the license? Or because Skit B got the advantage of starting earlier than Spooky? Did Spooky advertise AMH already to distributors and operators? That may also help

We wouldn't make money at $4750. Chuck wouldn't stay in business, and I wouldn't want to make games.

Yes we could do more to advertise but again, that all cuts into our bottom line. Pizza parties and travel isn't going to get the games done - hard work with financial reward will.

Come on, Ben, do twice the work for half the money .

I still think a set limit of 250 or 300 is all you need to sell them at 6k. Perceived rarity is something important to many collectors. It is the psychology of it and to be honest this LE market was created but has quickly been left with the door wide open and the perfect niche for a smaller designer/maker of quality pins to fill. Stern does not make anything even remotely LE, WOZ is not LE, and any B/W games can be remade (if you believe rick, rick the dancin...). That leaves classic Gottliebs and new small run machines as the only true collectible in what 18 months ago was a oozing collector frenzy.

If Jpop can sell 113 vaporware pins at 10k then you can sell 300 real pins at 6k. Add on to that AMH seriously kicks ass and making it limited is seriously a no brainer at this stage. JMHO, but make it truly limited and I (along with many others) are going to need to make a decision rather quickly on if we want one or not.

Think you've had severe limitations on where you can sell AMH, due to the fact it contains "Americas" in title.

Not if you buy from Sony, you would also pay per sale.

This may have been addressed previously but what type of money are we talking about for Stern to get a license for Metallica, Mustang, Avengers etc?

Licensed can also be popular locally only, if the theme is not known overseas.

That's why since restructuring, Stern tends to pick licenses with worldwide appeal

.

It's been said that the cost is approx $50 per game.

I work in casinos a lot, this is simply not true. There are more than before, but a vast majority are not major popular tv/movie/music based themes.

I was at Sands Bethlehem last year.

I did not see one electronic game that wasn't licensed.

I even played Cheers slots...they went off the air in 1993.

Licensed pins are SAFER. Manufacturing anything has become incredibly expensive in the USA. So every business that makes something plays it safe and would rather use someone else's art, story and theme to sell their product because its perceived to be safer and they can piggyback on that existing marketing. Why do you think Hollywood is remaking every movie again and again? (Transformers, Ninja Turtles, eff, I even heard they are redoing BeetleJuice). All the big movies are remakes. All the video games are sequels. When you dump a ton of money and time into something, companies don't want to take risks. They know that even if the current Transformers movie is bad, they will likely recoup 90% of the previous movie's take. The last original sci-fi/action film property I can say was a bit risky and honest was the Fifth Element, and that was almost 20 years ago.

Stern is just following mainstream culture's lead. Don't take big risks that could flop. Go with known properties. It sucks, it creates a monoculture of creative works and hurts the ability for new art to reach the world. I don't blame Stern; I can imagine how impossible it is to run a pinball company when pinball on route is dying.

Also, speaking of following the culture's lead, what would capture the imagination of the target audience today in an original theme? In the 70s and 80s you had Space/Alien/Tech themes because that was huge in the popular culture (Pin*bot, Aliewn Star, Space Shuttle, etc), largely fed by the fact that the US was still doing really compelling manned space flight. What would reflect the culture of today in pinball form? Perhaps an unemployment benefits pinball, or a war on terrorism pinball. Do you think Bad Cats would fly?

pretty funny since DE:SW was their best selling machine by a huge margin no?